Nvidia, you need to stop your shenanigans!!!

[Casey Stadick]

I have favored your cards since the 600 series, but you are this black hole of patented technology. If you would just make a product by gamers for gamers (Corny, I know) you could significantly help the gaming community. Why not adapt mantle? Even intel is working on adopting it! Why not use the standard Freesync? It requires no extra cost to implement.

At the very least, make your products for your audience *cough* Titan Z *cough*. I feel as though you might as well make your own line of cpu's too, and make any amd processor/gpu can't communicate with an nvidia part.

Anyone else have this rant attitude too?

 

[davidarad02]

you know, theres a thing called money in this world, and nvidia likes that.
patents: no one can use it > everyone needs to buy from you
mantle: do you really think that with the very little games that support mantle these days, nvidia would really adopt it?
titan z: not intended for regular gamers, made for the ones that have the money and need the cuda power - 3d renderers and animators.

nvidia are doing a fine job with their products, and about gpu pricing, look at the gtx 970 and 980 launch prices compared to kepler GPUs.

 

[Casey Stadick]

you know, theres a thing called money in this world, and nvidia likes that.
patents: no one can use it > everyone needs to buy from you
mantle: do you really think that with the very little games that support mantle these days, nvidia would really adopt it?
titan z: not intended for regular gamers, made for the ones that have the money and need the cuda power - 3d renderers and animators.

nvidia are doing a fine job with their products, and about gpu pricing, look at the gtx 970 and 980 launch prices compared to kepler GPUs.

What is more powerful than money? Customer loyalty, the one who will take time out of their life to pressure freinds to buy the same product they did. I feel as though Nvidia thinks they are too big to deal with us, lousey consumer peasants. Remember the good old days when it was how good the product is that entice you? Not the "ecosystem" of products that you're forced into. It almost makes me think that Nvidia will partner with qualcomm to make a protocol that will only work with their hardware.

Keeping intellectual property patented is all fine, but when you see a chance to improve upon it, wouldn't you want to? Nvidia doesn't seem to think like that, rather than collaborating with amd, like their biggest rival Intel is, they have to play comcast and try to slow innovation.

Although mantle doesn't have a huge amount of titles that fall under its name, neither does physx[Being released in 2005]. I'm not justifying that if you can't beat them join them. All I want is the community to get what it deserves. And if Nvidia wants to line their pockets before innovating, they will soon perish. The only other api ever to be used is direct x, microsoft couldn't give two employes left nut how optimised it is for dedicated gpu's. Amd sure wants their products[Atleast the lower tier cards] to have the best potential.

Free sync adds the smooth refresh rate comparable to the g sync by Nvidia. Although i have never had hands on experience with either one, i think keeping the cost low to the manufacture is a good strategy. A 100$ g synch module will increase costs and selling prices. While free synch is almost entirely software, nearly no damage to the price of the product.

The Titan Z is a flop from every perspective, it costs twice as much as its little brother, and only includes 36% more power. Why not sli 2 of the Titan Blacks and get better performance? And if you have $3,000 to burn on the gpu's alone, then go toward ASIC hardware. Where designs range from rendering, to complex encoding instruction sets. ASIC hardware, much like a Xeon, are designed with a purpose, whether it be stability, or power consumption per cycle.

Even though I have speculations of the surprising price point of those cards, I'll give you that one. It just seems that they didn't have any delays with their 28 nm process, and as if by Gaben's command, gave the consumer a cut of the loot. They could be on a race for market share before the 300 series releases.

Sometimes this mobster way of competition in the consumer marketplace can only lead to innocent injuries.

 

[MasterDell]

you know, theres a thing called money in this world, and nvidia likes that.
patents: no one can use it > everyone needs to buy from you
mantle: do you really think that with the very little games that support mantle these days, nvidia would really adopt it?
titan z: not intended for regular gamers, made for the ones that have the money and need the cuda power - 3d renderers and animators.

nvidia are doing a fine job with their products, and about gpu pricing, look at the gtx 970 and 980 launch prices compared to kepler GPUs.

What is more powerful than money? Customer loyalty, the one who will take time out of their life to pressure freinds to buy the same product they did. I feel as though Nvidia thinks they are too big to deal with us, lousey consumer peasants. Remember the good old days when it was how good the product is that entice you? Not the "ecosystem" of products that you're forced into. It almost makes me think that Nvidia will partner with qualcomm to make a protocol that will only work with their hardware.

Keeping intellectual property patented is all fine, but when you see a chance to improve upon it, wouldn't you want to? Nvidia doesn't seem to think like that, rather than collaborating with amd, like their biggest rival Intel is, they have to play comcast and try to slow innovation.

Although mantle doesn't have a huge amount of titles that fall under its name, neither does physx[Being released in 2005]. I'm not justifying that if you can't beat them join them. All I want is the community to get what it deserves. And if Nvidia wants to line their pockets before innovating, they will soon perish. The only other api ever to be used is direct x, microsoft couldn't give two employes left nut how optimised it is for dedicated gpu's. Amd sure wants their products[Atleast the lower tier cards] to have the best potential.

Free sync adds the smooth refresh rate comparable to the g sync by Nvidia. Although i have never had hands on experience with either one, i think keeping the cost low to the manufacture is a good strategy. A 100$ g synch module will increase costs and selling prices. While free synch is almost entirely software, nearly no damage to the price of the product.

The Titan Z is a flop from every perspective, it costs twice as much as its little brother, and only includes 36% more power. Why not sli 2 of the Titan Blacks and get better performance? And if you have $3,000 to burn on the gpu's alone, then go toward ASIC hardware. Where designs range from rendering, to complex encoding instruction sets. ASIC hardware, much like a Xeon, are designed with a purpose, whether it be stability, or power consumption per cycle.

Even though I have speculations of the surprising price point of those cards, I'll give you that one. It just seems that they didn't have any delays with their 28 nm process, and as if by Gaben's command, gave the consumer a cut of the loot. They could be on a race for market share before the 300 series releases.

Sometimes this mobster way of competition in the consumer marketplace can only lead to innocent injuries.

I think you are forgetting the principal around how our capitalistic continent works. You consumer, you get what you get. Nvidia company, they get what they want. All Nvidia cares about is dolla bills. Thats all mostly any company works. Even charities profit and you expect Nvidia to gaf about it's consumers? 😛 I am not saying this is just for Nvidia.. I am saying it for a lot of companies out there.

 

[Casey Stadick]

you know, theres a thing called money in this world, and nvidia likes that.
patents: no one can use it > everyone needs to buy from you
mantle: do you really think that with the very little games that support mantle these days, nvidia would really adopt it?
titan z: not intended for regular gamers, made for the ones that have the money and need the cuda power - 3d renderers and animators.

nvidia are doing a fine job with their products, and about gpu pricing, look at the gtx 970 and 980 launch prices compared to kepler GPUs.

What is more powerful than money? Customer loyalty, the one who will take time out of their life to pressure freinds to buy the same product they did. I feel as though Nvidia thinks they are too big to deal with us, lousey consumer peasants. Remember the good old days when it was how good the product is that entice you? Not the "ecosystem" of products that you're forced into. It almost makes me think that Nvidia will partner with qualcomm to make a protocol that will only work with their hardware.

Keeping intellectual property patented is all fine, but when you see a chance to improve upon it, wouldn't you want to? Nvidia doesn't seem to think like that, rather than collaborating with amd, like their biggest rival Intel is, they have to play comcast and try to slow innovation.

Although mantle doesn't have a huge amount of titles that fall under its name, neither does physx[Being released in 2005]. I'm not justifying that if you can't beat them join them. All I want is the community to get what it deserves. And if Nvidia wants to line their pockets before innovating, they will soon perish. The only other api ever to be used is direct x, microsoft couldn't give two employes left nut how optimised it is for dedicated gpu's. Amd sure wants their products[Atleast the lower tier cards] to have the best potential.

Free sync adds the smooth refresh rate comparable to the g sync by Nvidia. Although i have never had hands on experience with either one, i think keeping the cost low to the manufacture is a good strategy. A 100$ g synch module will increase costs and selling prices. While free synch is almost entirely software, nearly no damage to the price of the product.

The Titan Z is a flop from every perspective, it costs twice as much as its little brother, and only includes 36% more power. Why not sli 2 of the Titan Blacks and get better performance? And if you have $3,000 to burn on the gpu's alone, then go toward ASIC hardware. Where designs range from rendering, to complex encoding instruction sets. ASIC hardware, much like a Xeon, are designed with a purpose, whether it be stability, or power consumption per cycle.

Even though I have speculations of the surprising price point of those cards, I'll give you that one. It just seems that they didn't have any delays with their 28 nm process, and as if by Gaben's command, gave the consumer a cut of the loot. They could be on a race for market share before the 300 series releases.

Sometimes this mobster way of competition in the consumer marketplace can only lead to innocent injuries.

I think you are forgetting the principal around how our capitalistic continent works. You consumer, you get what you get. Nvidia company, they get what they want. All Nvidia cares about is dolla bills. Thats all mostly any company works. Even charities profit and you expect Nvidia to gaf about it's consumers? 😛 I am not saying this is just for Nvidia.. I am saying it for a lot of companies out there.

I guess I can only wish that corporations will give some sort of "dividend" to its consumer base, and make decisions for the good of the community. *Sigh*

 

[g-unit1111]

What is more powerful than money? Customer loyalty, the one who will take time out of their life to pressure freinds to buy the same product they did. I feel as though Nvidia thinks they are too big to deal with us, lousey consumer peasants. Remember the good old days when it was how good the product is that entice you? Not the "ecosystem" of products that you're forced into. It almost makes me think that Nvidia will partner with qualcomm to make a protocol that will only work with their hardware.

What are you talking about? A $3,000 card has a very limited audience and those that can afford such a card will gain some advantage over those of us that can afford a GTX 980. But in the end why does it matter what someone else can afford and you can't?

Although mantle doesn't have a huge amount of titles that fall under its name, neither does physx[Being released in 2005]. I'm not justifying that if you can't beat them join them. All I want is the community to get what it deserves. And if Nvidia wants to line their pockets before innovating, they will soon perish. The only other api ever to be used is direct x, microsoft couldn't give two employes left nut how optimised it is for dedicated gpu's. Amd sure wants their products[Atleast the lower tier cards] to have the best potential.

Mantle is software, not hardware. It's an extension of the AMD Catalyst driver that gives both older and newer cards a boost of performance in games where the cards would otherwise struggle. It's only some seriously graphic intensive games like Wolfenstein and Battlefield 4 where this is needed, which is why there isn't much support for this software yet, but over time there will be more and more titles added.

Even though I have speculations of the surprising price point of those cards, I'll give you that one. It just seems that they didn't have any delays with their 28 nm process, and as if by Gaben's command, gave the consumer a cut of the loot. They could be on a race for market share before the 300 series releases.

You know there is this thing called "cost of materials" and "cost of goods sold" that are literally the first things they teach you in accounting. The cost of materials required to produce a card like the Titan Z is far greater than the cost of materials to produce a GTX 980. And once you add in the cost of materials and the cost of goods sold, not to mention all the other factors that go into keeping a company running, that's how you get the high cost of these cards. And don't forget that over time these returns diminish, which means that after a few years the cost of direct materials used in a product will decrease, and at the end of a products' useful life, it will be significantly less than what it costs initially. And you really think a company worth billions like NVIDIA is going to give customers a "cut of the loot"? Wow.

Sometimes this mobster way of competition in the consumer marketplace can only lead to innocent injuries.

AMD has its' own high performance card - the R9-295x2, which retails for around the $1500 - $2000 mark depending on manufacturer, cooler, and clock speed. If you think this is limited strictly to NVIDIA, you need to do some market research.

 

[etk]

Future implementations of Direct X should supplant most of the benefits of Mantle. Regarding freesync, if you want NVIDIA to use free sync, don't buy their products until they do. It really is that simple. It's not just graphics or computers, it's consumer products, the only real feedback that counts is with your wallet and your feet.

Consumers are fickle, the same people who say they care about gas mileage buy suburbans, the same people who say they want an sd card still buy iphones or Nexus devices. Unless what you say you want is reflected in your spending pattern, nobody cares.

 

[realnoize]

Consumers are fickle, the same people who say they care about gas mileage buy suburbans, the same people who say they want an sd card still buy iphones or Nexus devices. Unless what you say you want is reflected in your spending pattern, nobody cares.

Bingo.

The only language big companies understand is MONEY. When they don't have the biggest share of the market, they'll try whatever they can to upsell the competition, be it lower prices for comparable products or putting out free and open standards for everyone to use, or any other tactic that would make them look like "the good guys". For instance, I remember the old Betamax vs. VHS days (yes, I'm that old, lol). Betamax was better than VHS, but it was a Sony-exclusive technology and other companies had to pay huge royalties to Sony to make Betamax players. But JVC, who had a slightly inferior product (VHS), took the market by storm by licensing its technology to any company who wanted it. This resulted in a flood of competition, thus driving VHS prices down, and consumers buying that over Betamax.

So it's not uncommon to see companies trying the same thing when they're not the leader in their market. Sometimes, it doesn't bring them the success they hoped for (like AMD with Mantle), but you rarely see this type of thing from market leaders.

Market leaders usually tend to act like they need to "protect" their market share, and so will usually tend to create more "exclusive" technologies, to "force" people into buying their products if they want to benefit from said technology. That can sometimes even go as far as blatantly making competitors' products not working with their own on purpose to lock them out. If I remember correctly, Microsoft used that strategy in the old days of Windows 3.1, when the user needed MS-DOS (as Windows needed DOS back then to run). If the user was running PC-DOS (the IBM version, ironically developped by Microsoft initially) or DR-DOS (Novell DOS), then there was some code in Windows that was there ONLY to generate bogus system errors and slow down the system, deliberately putting the competition at an artificial disadventage.

Anyway, right now, Nvidia is the market leader. And so they're trying to keep their position by locking people into their ecosystem, and locking their competitors out of their "exclusive" new tech. At some point in time, AMD may take the crown from Nvidia. Or not. But if they do, then they'll be the ones not listening to their consumers, and doing all the proprietary technology shenanigans...

If people are sick and tired of Nvidia shenanigans regarding its "exclusive" techs and other business tactics, then, people should put their money where their mouth is, and just stop buying Nvidia products.

Just be aware that eventually, another market leader will rise and will act exactly the same.

 

[Casey Stadick]

Consumers are fickle, the same people who say they care about gas mileage buy suburbans, the same people who say they want an sd card still buy iphones or Nexus devices. Unless what you say you want is reflected in your spending pattern, nobody cares.

Bingo.

The only language big companies understand is MONEY. When they don't have the biggest share of the market, they'll try whatever they can to upsell the competition, be it lower prices for comparable products or putting out free and open standards for everyone to use, or any other tactic that would make them look like "the good guys". For instance, I remember the old Betamax vs. VHS days (yes, I'm that old, lol). Betamax was better than VHS, but it was a Sony-exclusive technology and other companies had to pay huge royalties to Sony to make Betamax players. But JVC, who had a slightly inferior product (VHS), took the market by storm by licensing its technology to any company who wanted it. This resulted in a flood of competition, thus driving VHS prices down, and consumers buying that over Betamax.

So it's not uncommon to see companies trying the same thing when they're not the leader in their market. Sometimes, it doesn't bring them the success they hoped for (like AMD with Mantle), but you rarely see this type of thing from market leaders.

Market leaders usually tend to act like they need to "protect" their market share, and so will usually tend to create more "exclusive" technologies, to "force" people into buying their products if they want to benefit from said technology. That can sometimes even go as far as blatantly making competitors' products not working with their own on purpose to lock them out. If I remember correctly, Microsoft used that strategy in the old days of Windows 3.1, when the user needed MS-DOS (as Windows needed DOS back then to run). If the user was running PC-DOS (the IBM version, ironically developped by Microsoft initially) or DR-DOS (Novell DOS), then there was some code in Windows that was there ONLY to generate bogus system errors and slow down the system, deliberately putting the competition at an artificial disadventage.

Anyway, right now, Nvidia is the market leader. And so they're trying to keep their position by locking people into their ecosystem, and locking their competitors out of their "exclusive" new tech. At some point in time, AMD may take the crown from Nvidia. Or not. But if they do, then they'll be the ones not listening to their consumers, and doing all the proprietary technology shenanigans...

If people are sick and tired of Nvidia shenanigans regarding its "exclusive" techs and other business tactics, then, people should put their money where their mouth is, and just stop buying Nvidia products.

Just be aware that eventually, another market leader will rise and will act exactly the same.

I wish this weren't the case, but the market share isn't about products (as I previously would disagree) but cunning. Mind games run the stock market and the companies share of that pie.

I agree with you, the world is cruel, and you are only seen by the wallet in your pocket. And the contenders will try to seem as the moral company. With the new generation, I can only dream that will change.

Qualcomm seems to be hurting right now due to the intel surge, maybe the same story of amd and nvidia will play out right here at our fingertips.

My only fuss is the Titan Z, even though it is designed for a specific market, anyone with that much money, and a sane mind, will ever buy it. There is too much solutions that offer better performance to $, and/or to[strike]o[/strike] watt. I guess if you are the "Top dog" you think your product will out sell anything that could possibly be its competitor.

 

[g-unit1111]

I wish this weren't the case, but the market share isn't about products (as I previously would disagree) but cunning. Mind games run the stock market and the companies share of that pie.

I'm pretty sure that the market is about products.

I agree with you, the world is cruel, and you are only seen by the wallet in your pocket. And the contenders will try to seem as the moral company. With the new generation, I can only dream that will change.

There will always be what you wish you could afford vs. what you can spend money on. I wish I could afford a Bentley Continental but I'm driving a Nissan Altima. I wish I could afford a Mediterranean cruise but instead I'm cruising around Baja California. Not everyone can afford the things they want.

Qualcomm seems to be hurting right now due to the intel surge, maybe the same story of amd and nvidia will play out right here at our fingertips.

Qualcomm makes chips for network devices and cell phones, completely different market than what Intel serves.

My only fuss is the Titan Z, even though it is designed for a specific market, anyone with that much money, and a sane mind, will ever buy it. There is too much solutions that offer better performance to $, and/or too watt. I guess if you are the "Top dog" you think your product will out sell anything that could possibly be its competitor.

Your only fuss is the Titan Z? There's very few if any people who will buy it, and it's not aimed at the casual, or even the hardcore gamer. And like I said the cost of materials required to produce a $3,000 GPU far greater than the cost of materials required to produce a $500 GPU. And even then it's all supply and demand. If you want to see the definition of "A fool and his money are soon parted", take a look at the most expensive completed builds on PC Part Picker - because these people who blow that kind of cash on a PC certainly aren't getting their money's worth on 4K monitors. I will tell you that. :lol: