Official Shutdown Thread

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This thread is going to hit Goodwins law in 6 posts, I can feel it.

I find it amazing that instead of trying to fix a law that conservatives disagree with (That was created by a conservative think tank and put into action by Romney in his state) they decide to shutdown the government.

 

The American people are paying these politicians and they should start to listen to us.This is political game which is hurting everyone now.GROW UP!
 
Holy Sh*t! Someone just pointed out to me that in Australia if the government is denied its budget they go and have an election... Can some Aussie verify that?
 
First, realize that a government shut-down is nothing new. Only non essential services are getting shut down. Which raises the question of why the Federal government is providing those services to begin with if they are not essential to running the government. The only people affected are the 800K personnel who work in those non essential services. The majority of Americans will not even notice that the Federal government shut down for a few days, or even a few weeks.

Second, America has had a long history of government shut downs over budget disagreements. The first government shut down was in 1789 when the Framers determined that all appropriations must originate in the House and then approved by the President. This was done to PREVENT the President from determining how Federal dollars are to be spent and to LIMIT the powers of the President.

Third, the Senate has been derelict in their duty and has not/did not vote on a Federal budget for the first 5 years of the Obama Administration. Obama has yet to sign a Federal budget. This is the first time in American history where a Senate and 2nd term President has FAILED to vote and sign off on a Federal budget. Please note that the Republican controlled House has passed a budget every year per their Constitutional duty.

Also, the President and Senate Democrats have openly stated that they are UNWILLING to negotiate with the House to pass a Federal budget and then have the balls to blame House Republicans for this shut-down. The President and Senate Democrats have taken a "my way or the hi-way" stance which has effectively left the House Republicans with no other option but to also take a hard line stance. Given the House determines all appropriations, not the President or Senate, the fault for this shut down falls squarely on the shoulders of the Senate and President for intentionally not negotiating with the House.

Lastly, if you really pay attention to the news, this shut down debate has LESS to do with disagreements between Democrats and Republicans as much as it is an ideological difference between the career Senators and Congressmen compared to the younger blood recently voted into the Congress. This is more about the career politicians wanting to maintain their power and control to maintain baseline budgeting and deficit spending as opposed to cutting the budget and getting the debt under control. Fact is, if the career politicians were truly believe their own bullshit about reducing the national debt, they would also not oppose a Federal Balanced Budget Amendment, the same type of Amendment that exists in over 40 State Constitutions.
 
97% of NASA employees are being furloughed. And Curiosity is going into protective mode, not collecting data.

NASA will be one non-essential service ill miss.
 
Non-essential does not mean "not needed". The nearly 3000 folks I sent home today are certainly needed to ensure the Nation's taxpayers and Warfighters get what they paid for and deserve.

Non-essential refers to folks not needed to support very specific functions. It (the term) is a misnomer that does great injustice (when misapplied) to those who have chosen to serve the Nation as civil servants.

I am proud to serve with those "non-essential" folks.
 



Hmm, let me check my pocket Constitution for a moment. First let's check Article 1, Section 8...nope nothing there...now let me check Article 2, Section 2....nothing there either! Wow! That's interesting, there is nothing in the Constitution that states that it is a function of the Congress or Executive Branch to provide jobs to people who process services for taxpayers and government employees.

It seems to me that those 3000 employee are non-essential, literally, to run the Federal government. I would also hazard a guess whatever function they provide could be privatized.

Don't get me wrong COLGeek, I'm sure that every one of the 3000 people are professionals and nothing more than the unintended consequences as a result of this shut-down. But the truth is they are also an example of just how much the Federal government has grown beyond it's Constitutional boundaries.

Those 3000 people and the Nation DEFINITELY deserve better than this!

 
Some functions are inherently government functions and are not suitable for privatization. Not really a debate.

You are certainly entitled to your interpretation of the Constitution (and I would never hold that view against you or anyone).

We do agree, however, that better is what the Nation deserves.
 
The issue rises due to Ideology of the few, their money-backers, and their leather seats.

What needs to happen is both sides must come together, create a compromise budget for all of 2014, and when January 1, 2014 comes around, they can resume the shit-flinging contest one last year before the American people skin them alive one-by-one.

This next election will be a joyful one, I hope.
 

In addition to the historic national debt what goes largely ignored by our politicians and media alike is the $225 TRILLION in unfunded federal mandates and programs.

There literally is not enough money in the world to fund all the programs and legislation the Federal government has on the books.

The current government shut-down is nothing compared to the inevitable financial collapse as a result of gross federal over spending.
 
Of course it's open to debate! Here's the thing, the government itself labels those employees as non essential, the defense that they are inherent and can not be privatized seemingly comes from an institutional point of view.

As some one with 15+ years experience having been through multiple re-organizations and as some one who has re-organized corporations, it has been proven that while some employees may perform "needed" functions, any function that does not impact the core purpose of the organization is absolutely not essential to the organizational structure. What they do and how they do it can be privatized, out-sourced, or otherwise done without those employees. Our elected officials have chosen to create government jobs under the guise of necessity which has only contributed to bloat and waste. Take the Dept of Education or Dept of Defense as examples, there is nothing within those two organizations that can not be re-structured to follow original Constitutional intent, be privatized, or be relegated back to the States.

Now, you have not offered what the 3000 employees function is, nor offered any reason as why they are inherent or essential to the core functions of the government. So, I would be remiss not to change my opinion if compelling information was given about why and how those 3000 employees are absolutely necessary to keeping the government running. I'd also be curious to know if they are Union employees or private contractors.

I am not interpreting anything, the Constitution is quite plain about what the core functions of and the limits put on the federal government. It is by claiming an "interpretation" rather than following original intent that has allowed the past 100+ years of the Progressive Era in America to put our society and economy into the poor state it is in today.
 
ObamaCare has a regulation written into it for the first time to regulate tax preparers. Nothing says tax preparers (CPAs, etc) can or should be regulated. The tax code does that for us. By ObamaCare is working to regulate those tax preparers because it generates more money. My accountant warned me of this 3-4 years ago, saying his cost was going to go into the tens of thousands to continue working on his own. The goal being to make everyone go into a giant pool of tax preparers, instead of having your own. In effect, they want to start forcing you to work directly with the IRS when filing your taxes. Instant audits, maximum income generation for the IRS, and you as an individual will end up seeing more money out the door instead of getting returns.
 
Tax preparer regulations were dropped months ago.

Healthcare is a problem, its expensive and doesnt help everyone. This is a step in the right direction, the American people agree. Obama ran on the ACA and was voted in. The plan is based on another plan created by a very conservative think tank, it was implemented by the republican nominee for president in his state, it was found to be constitutional. But instead of trying to improve the plan the minority has decided to stop funding the government. Brilliant.
 

Investor and founder of Matterhorn Asset Management, Egon von Greyerz.

Note that searches will show the unfunded liabilities to be only $125T, but this number only accounts for Social Security, Prescription Drugs, and Medicaid. The $125T does not include all other unfunded liabilities like subsidies to the States, pensions, tax breaks, Obamacare, etc...
 
You keep harping on Romney. Even Romney said, it worked for his state but it isn't a solution for all states. Looking over the state's expenses, it turned out to be cheaper for the state to buy residents insurance who couldn't afford it, than to pay/eat their medical bills. It worked for that state. It isn't a cookie cutter approach for all states. That's the issue.

States should resolve their issues, not the Federal gov't implementing a solution, at the state level in cookie cutter format, for the law to be legal.

At the Federal level, the law would mean everyone would have to pay the same amount. Income tax for example, across the country everyone pays the same percentage, no matter what. With ACA, they went to the state level so they could charge people more or less, depending on their income.

My premiums would be $16,xxx a year under the ACA. That's fawking astronomical. But for someone making less money than me, their premiums would be around $3,000 for the EXACT same coverage. How is that fair to me that I'm paying more for the same services!? We all pay income tax percentages and we all receive the same exact services.

I also was talking to my HR benefits person yesterday. The ACA made a significant change that affects a lot of people. In and Out of Network provider laws changed significantly. Previously, if you went to an Out of Network ER, the ER would treat you, stabilize you, then transport you to an In Network ER and your insurance would cover it. Under the ACA, this no longer applies. If you go to an Out of Network provider, you're on the foot for the full bill and your insurance will not cover anything. The Out of Network provider will not transfer you to an in network provider because they don't get paid anymore.

That's just stupid. This is something my coworker is going through.. he had a real emergency, went to the closest hospital ER and now has a $7,000 bill he has to pay because they're out of network.
 
Also, my previous job.. they're all working still. Even after 20% sequestration last fiscal year, they still have enough money left over from last year's budget to fund all 5,500 employees for up to 6 months.
 
The ACA is a symptom. Centralized government planning is the problem.

The joke is America has had socialized medicine since 1965! But the centralized government planners and progressives re-created the wheel and stole money from the existing social medical benefits rather than re-vamp Medicare and MedicAid!

C'mon mingo, quit buying the sound bytes. The minority has passed bills onto the Senate to fund the government, including the ACA. The minority went along with the party in power and removed the verbiage to de-fund the ACA but replace it with a one-year delay just on the taxes associated with the individual mandate. It is the party in power that refuses to negotiate unless the individual taxes are included in any CR's. The party in power has given thousands of waivers in political pay-offs to Unions and big business so they do not have to pay the taxes associated with not conforming to the ACA but the same party in power refuses to give that same waiver to the individual policy holders. Ironically, the party in power criticized Bush for cronyism and corporatism!

 
The funny thing is that the park is open for people to walk around. They decided to pay employees to put up barriers to keep people out. It's a park. People walk through it. The worst case scenarios are trash or vandalism. I stand with Paul on this, some idiot told them to make it hurt for the people. It doesn't need to hurt for the people, it needs to hurt for the government.

BTW, Toledo Express airport is a sh*t hole airport. They should have flown out of Detroit.

Marcy Kaptur needs to be voted out. She does well for farmers because that's a significant part of her vote, but otherwise she's worthless and has steadily led NW Ohio into the ground. Under her leadership, the area has consistently lost business and declined. Prior to her, the area was growing. Yet, the same fricking idiots in Toledo keep voting her in. Plenty of quality people have run, yet she has significant ties into the UAW and other local Unions that vote for her.
 
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