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Question Old PSU or Not Enough Cooling?

Stuart Hamilton

Honorable
Mar 1, 2014
4
0
10,510
0
I recently upgraded from a GTX 970 to an EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC Ultra. The installation went smoothly, I double checked to make sure all the fans were spinning, and everything worked fine for about a half hour. Then, my power supply blew. It was a clean failure: No scorch marks, no visible damage to the mobo power connector or the GPU power connectors, no smell of smoke either. I poured over this with a pen light for an hour. It just went POP and everything shut down.

The PSU in question was a 1,000w Thermaltake Tough Power 80 Plus Gold. When I first built the rig I went all out on the PSU not knowing precisely what kind of hardware I’d want down the road. This PSU doesn’t have a switch on the back, either. It’s basically always charged if plugged in. I confirmed the power supply failure by unplugging the PSU, holding the power button to discharge the capacitors (there was an audio cue when this happened), and then plugging it back in to see if the mobo’s power light came on.

Nothing.

So it’s definitely the PSU. Now, my actual question:

Was this a defective PSU? It’s about 5 years old and it should’ve been more than capable of supporting my meager Core i7 4790k, peripherals, and that GPU. Or was it a cooling problem? I have a side intake fan, a rear exhaust fan, in addition to the PSU’s exhaust fan and the GPU’s fans that also exhaust. I got no temperature warnings prior to the failure. The case was hotter than usual, though, but then again the card is pulling more watts. Of course it’s going to be warmer.

So, what do I do? Try again with another PSU (any suggestions?) and risk another failure? Or also replace the chassis and aim for better cooling?
 

PC Tailor

Dignified
Herald
If it was a standard Toughpower Gold (not the DPS or Grand model) then they're not the best PSUs for todays standards, and only come with a 5 year warranty, which is usually the rough lifespan of these units.

PSUs deteriorate over time, and if it is that PSU model, I'd suspect it was reaching the end of it's life.
If you heard a clear POP and the PSU definitely blew, definitely do not continue using it.

And ugprade to a good quality unit would be recommended, and hopefully it hasn't caused damage to any other components (it can often be invisible damage).
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Well, Tt ToughPower Gold 1000W did come with only 5 years of warranty and given that it's OEM is Enhance, who isn't the best of PSU OEMs, it's about right that your PSU pops once the warranty is near or just past it's end.

As far as why it popped, well, your PSU has put out about 300W load for the most of it's service life. Since load output increased considerably with new GPU (max 460W), it probably was enough to pop the close to dying PSU.

Here, only fix is to go with new, good build quality PSU. For your PC with RTX 2080 Ti, proper wattage range would be 700W. That being said, i suggest getting any Seasonic unit, e.g: Focus+ 750 (80+ Gold), Focus+ 750 (80+ Platinum), PRIME Ultra 750 (80+ Platinum) or PRIME Ultra 750 (80+ Titanium),
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/jWFXsY,P638TW,hKc48d,cNsmP6/

Warranty wise:
Focus+: 10 years
PRIME: 12 years (includes all PRIME models: regular, Fanless, AirTouch, SnowSilent, Ultra)

All 3 of my PCs: Skylake, Haswell and AMD are also powered by Seasonic. Full specs with pics in my sig.

Also, PRIME Ultra 750 (80+ Titanium) is the best 750W PSU money can buy at current date and with it, you'll get the highest efficiency (92%), tightest voltage regulation (0.28%), longest hold-up time (30ms), lowest ripple noise (14mV) and longest warranty (12 years) there is. Fully modular cables and toggle-able Premium Hybrid fan control too.
specs: https://seasonic.com/prime-ultra-titanium
review: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/01/15/seasonic_prime_ultra_750w_power_supply_review

Oh, all fully-modular Seasonic PSUs are also compatible with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables.
To match my 3x PCs build themes, i have replaced the stock black power cables with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables,
cablemod: https://cablemod.com/products/?filter_series=se-series&show_products=48


Though, do note that PSUs have magical ability to fry everything they are connected to when they go sky high. The lower the PSU's build quality - the higher of the chance of loosing other components. Due to that, there's no way to tell if any of your other components also survived. If you get new PSU installed and can't see any image on monitor, but PC otherwise "powers on", then one of the four or all four could be dead: CPU, MoBo, RAM, GPU.
 
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Stuart Hamilton

Honorable
Mar 1, 2014
4
0
10,510
0
Alright gentlemen,

We were all wrong. It wasn’t the power supply.

...

It was the cable.

Yes, you read that right. So, I’m a fit of rage and desperation I ran to a local computer shop and grabbed a new PSU. I bought a Corsair this time, slightly downgraded from 1,000 watts to 850 but more than enough. It’s fully modular and after getting everything plugged back in I flip the switch.

Nothing. Again, my mobo has a test light when it’s charged, and it’s completely dark. I’m convinced I’ve fried my mobo and everything on it. In an act of desperation I start trying different outlets on the surge protector. Nothing. And finally, about to cry, I reach for another cable.

Test light comes on.

I gave the old power supply to my uncle who’s an electrician. He’d already opened it up and looked at me and said “There’s not a damn thing wrong with it.”

Still out of warranty. Don’t care. It’s his now, and I have my rig back.

Go on, laugh at me. I deserve it, and frankly, would welcome it.

/panic attack
 

PC Tailor

Dignified
Herald
Alright gentlemen,

We were all wrong. It wasn’t the power supply.

...

It was the cable.

Yes, you read that right. So, I’m a fit of rage and desperation I ran to a local computer shop and grabbed a new PSU. I bought a Corsair this time, slightly downgraded from 1,000 watts to 850 but more than enough. It’s fully modular and after getting everything plugged back in I flip the switch.

Nothing. Again, my mobo has a test light when it’s charged, and it’s completely dark. I’m convinced I’ve fried my mobo and everything on it. In an act of desperation I start trying different outlets on the surge protector. Nothing. And finally, about to cry, I reach for another cable.

Test light comes on.

I gave the old power supply to my uncle who’s an electrician. He’d already opened it up and looked at me and said “There’s not a damn thing wrong with it.”

Still out of warranty. Don’t care. It’s his now, and I have my rig back.

Go on, laugh at me. I deserve it, and frankly, would welcome it.

/panic attack
Nothing to laugh at all, this happens.
And ultimately you've not probably downgraded.

If you've gotten a good quality Corsair Unit (I.e. a TX, HX, AX etc.) then you've not lost, you've got a much better quality unit, with better warranty and (in my opinion) much better support.

For me going from one PSU to a better quality one is never a loss.

The most important thing, is you're back up and running :)
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Alright gentlemen,

We were all wrong. It wasn’t the power supply.

...

It was the cable.

Yes, you read that right. So, I’m a fit of rage and desperation I ran to a local computer shop and grabbed a new PSU. I bought a Corsair this time, slightly downgraded from 1,000 watts to 850 but more than enough. It’s fully modular and after getting everything plugged back in I flip the switch.

Nothing. Again, my mobo has a test light when it’s charged, and it’s completely dark. I’m convinced I’ve fried my mobo and everything on it. In an act of desperation I start trying different outlets on the surge protector. Nothing. And finally, about to cry, I reach for another cable.

Test light comes on.

I gave the old power supply to my uncle who’s an electrician. He’d already opened it up and looked at me and said “There’s not a damn thing wrong with it.”

Still out of warranty. Don’t care. It’s his now, and I have my rig back.

Go on, laugh at me. I deserve it, and frankly, would welcome it.

/panic attack
Nice to hear that you got your issue solved. :)

Though, i'm wondering, am i the only one who replaces all the cables, including main power cable (from PSU to mains) when PSU is replaced/upgraded?
 

jonnyguru

Distinguished
Wow. You guys are judging a power supply's quality by the length of it's warranty? Interesting.

When that PSU was new 5 years ago, 5 year warranties were the norm (Corsair TX and RM were 5 year warranty, Seasonic G and X Series, etc). The trend to put a 7 to 10 to 12 year warranty on PSUs is a relatively new thing.

And this idea that Enhance "isn't the best of PSU OEMs"?!?!?!! What the actul F-word? Sure, they have some mediocre products in their portfolio, but they're a tier 1 and are capable of building to order, so if someone like SilverStone wants to cut corners, Enhance will do it. But the Thermaltake Toughpower Gold didn't have ANY corners cut. That thing is built like a tank. I'd certainly take it over any Seasonic or Super Flower built today.
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Wow. You guys are judging a power supply's quality by the length of it's warranty? Interesting.

When that PSU was new 5 years ago, 5 year warranties were the norm (Corsair TX and RM were 5 year warranty, Seasonic G and X Series, etc). The trend to put a 7 to 10 to 12 year warranty on PSUs is a relatively new thing.

And this idea that Enhance "isn't the best of PSU OEMs"?!?!?!! What the actul F-word? Sure, they have some mediocre products in their portfolio, but they're a tier 1 and are capable of building to order, so if someone like SilverStone wants to cut corners, Enhance will do it. But the Thermaltake Toughpower Gold didn't have ANY corners cut. That thing is built like a tank. I'd certainly take it over any Seasonic or Super Flower built today.
You had to come around down voting everyone as just as OP's issue got solved, right? :heink:

Care to tell the release date of Tt ToughPower Gold 1000W if you know it? Since there are 0 reviews of that unit whatsoever and i can't find out when it was released.
Btw, giving 7 years of warranty to a PSU that at current date is 7.5 years old is "relatively new thing" for you then you might want to revalue your terms.


I rate PSU OEMs by their ability and willingness of making different quality PSUs.

1st grade - PSU OEMs who try their hardest to give customers the best quality PSUs while refusing to make low quality PSUs. Those few are:
Seasonic, Super Flower and Flextronics.

2nd grade - PSU OEMs, who are capable of producing good quality PSUs but doesn't mind producing low quality PSUs as well. Some of them are:
CWT (Channel Well Technology), FSP, Enhance, Delta Electronics, Great Wall.

3rd grade - PSU OEMs who mainly produce low quality PSUs, where some of them are:
HEC/Compucase, High Power/Sirfa/Sirtec.

4th grade - Nameless PSU OEMs who make PSUs just to get consumers money, regardless how bad their PSUs are. One of the best examples:
Hercules 500W PSU (Gutless Wonder III).
 
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jonnyguru

Distinguished
Do not use profanity on this site
You had to come around down voting everyone as just as OP's issue got solved, right? :heink:

Care to tell the release date of Tt ToughPower Gold 1000W if you know it? Since there are 0 reviews of that unit whatsoever and i can't find out when it was released.
Btw, giving 7 years of warranty to a PSU that at current date is 7.5 years old is "relatively new thing" for you then you might want to revalue your terms.


I rate PSU OEMs by their ability and willingness of making different quality PSUs.

1st grade - PSU OEMs who try their hardest to give customers the best quality PSUs while refusing to make low quality PSUs. Those few are:
Seasonic, Super Flower and Flextronics.

2nd grade - PSU OEMs, who are capable of producing good quality PSUs but doesn't mind producing low quality PSUs as well. Some of them are:
CWT (Channel Well Technology), FSP, Enhance, Delta Electronics, Great Wall.

3rd grade - PSU OEMs who mainly produce low quality PSUs, where some of them are:
HEC/Compucase, High Power/Sirfa/Sirtec.

4th grade - Nameless PSU OEMs who make PSUs just to get consumers money, regardless how bad their PSUs are. One of the best examples:
Hercules 500W PSU (Gutless Wonder III).
Yes. I like to down vote ignorance.

You can read a review of the 850W version on jonnyguru.com. It's the exact same platform.

An OEM is not "first grade" because they pick and choose the products they're going to ship. 99% of the time, they only ship better products because they only have the capacity to ship a few thousand units a day. So they focus on products with a high ASP, thus higher profit. Cheaper products net lower profits, but are high volume. If your factory only has one or two lines, then of course you can't do the volume required to make a lower cost product.

A PSU should be judged on it's own as well as the OVERALL capability of the factory. Sure, HEC will never be able to make a PSU as good as CWT or Great Wall, but what they do, they do well. Likewise, CWT does make some pretty -------- products.... but that doesn't make them a -------- OEM.
 
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Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Yes. I like to down vote ignorance.

You can read a review of the 850W version on jonnyguru.com. It's the exact same platform.

An OEM is not "first grade" because they pick and choose the products they're going to ship. 99% of the time, they only ship better products because they only have the capacity to ship a few thousand units a day. So they focus on products with a high ASP, thus higher profit. Cheaper products net lower profits, but are high volume. If your factory only has one or two lines, then of course you can't do the volume required to make a lower cost product.

A PSU should be judged on it's own as well as the OVERALL capability of the factory. Sure, HEC will never be able to make a PSU as good as CWT or Great Wall, but what they do, they do well. Likewise, CWT does make some pretty -------- products.... but that doesn't make them a -------- OEM.
If Tt ToughPower Gold 850W [TPD-850M] has same platform as Tt ToughPower 1000W [TP-1000M] then how come Enhance gave TP-1000M 5 years of warranty while TPD-850M received 7 years of warranty? Here, i'm interested in the reason of dropping 2 years of warranty on the same platform PSU.

To me, warranty length shows how much the OEM is trusting their own product reliability. The more trust they have in it - the more warranty they give.
Also, there is no law out there that says you can't give more than e.g 6 years or warranty to your product. What laws are out there is the minimum warranty length. E.g here in Europe, all sold consumer items must have minimum of 2 years of warranty.
Only PSU OEM, that i know of, who has increased the warranty length of their currently running PSUs is Seasonic. When original PRIME series 1st launched, Seasonic gave the series hefty 10 years of warranty. After about a year of initial release, Seasonic upgraded warranty length to 12 years for all their PRIME series PSUs, both on sale and for already purchased units as well. Warranty increase was also for the S12II, M12II, M12II EVO series (from 3 to 5 years) and X-series as well (from 5 to 7 years) If those PSUs were bought before Sept 1, 2012. That's one example. Another example would be Kingston who doesn't give a set years of warranty for their RAM (e.g HyperX Savage), instead, they give lifetime warranty.

When it comes to OEMs, it's not about the capacity of volume but instead about moral compass. Some OEMs (not only PSU OEMs) flat out refuse releasing sub-standard products since they actually care about their customers while most OEMs care only about volume. In my book, 2nd grade PSU OEMs will never be equal to 1st grade PSU OEMs as long as they are willing to produce low quality units, regardless the volume they output. To me, quality is far important that quantity. Also, nothing stops 2nd grade PSU OEMs to stop producing low quality units, reducing volume and investing the money used to make low quality units into R&D to make better PSUs. It's those penguins on the top of the company who's moral compass is crooked.

And yes, PSUs should be rated individually but without any reviews of TP-1000M out there, i can't judge it individually.
Here, a question to you: Are all the following PSUs: Corsair HX750/850, Chieftec E 650W-850W, Enermax GX, Thermaltake Evo Blue 2.0, Jou Jye/Bitwin BW-G NL equal? Or are some of them better than others?
 
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PC Tailor

Dignified
Herald
Wow. You guys are judging a power supply's quality by the length of it's warranty? Interesting.

When that PSU was new 5 years ago, 5 year warranties were the norm (Corsair TX and RM were 5 year warranty, Seasonic G and X Series, etc). The trend to put a 7 to 10 to 12 year warranty on PSUs is a relatively new thing.

And this idea that Enhance "isn't the best of PSU OEMs"?!?!?!! What the actul F-word? Sure, they have some mediocre products in their portfolio, but they're a tier 1 and are capable of building to order, so if someone like SilverStone wants to cut corners, Enhance will do it. But the Thermaltake Toughpower Gold didn't have ANY corners cut. That thing is built like a tank. I'd certainly take it over any Seasonic or Super Flower built today.
Seems unfair. I only stated it could be reaching the end of it's lifespan.
Never said it was a bad unit, my warranty wasn't a criticism, simply an indicator that it's approaching that warranty end or gone past it, which like many others, I typically see as a "this is how long we expect are units to last at a guarantee".

Only stated if you heard it pop, don't use it. you know full well I wouldn't disagree with you on the quality of that unit, you have a far greater understanding of it than I, as I often use your site as reference. But I felt my comment wasn't actually calling it trash!
 

jonnyguru

Distinguished
Seems unfair. I only stated it could be reaching the end of it's lifespan.
they're not the best PSUs for todays standards, and only come with a 5 year warranty, which is usually the rough lifespan of these units.
Usually some say "not the best" to suggest "not good". 5 year warranty doesn't equate to 5 year lifespan. It was normal warranty term for Thermaltake in general at the time.

If Tt ToughPower Gold 850W [TPD-850M] has same platform as Tt ToughPower 1000W [TP-1000M] then how come Enhance gave TP-1000M 5 years of warranty while TPD-850M received 7 years of warranty? Here, i'm interested in the reason of dropping 2 years of warranty on the same platform PSU.
Because Thermaltake (lack of insightful marketing) and the fact that higher wattage PSUs are used for stupid things that other companies will typically void your warrant altogether for (read: Cryptocurrency mining). A higher wattage PSU is going to be under more taxing conditions, generate more heat and have more components, therefore more potential points of failure.

To me, warranty length shows how much the OEM is trusting their own product reliability. The more trust they have in it - the more warranty they give.
Umm.. The OEM does not establish the products warranty. The marketing company, in this case Thermaltake, does. CWT, Seasonic, Great Wall, Flextronics, Enhance, etc. actually only give their customers (Corsair, Thermaltake, Cooler Master, etc.) a one or two year warranty.

When it comes to OEMs, it's not about the capacity of volume but instead about moral compass.
We're talking about China factories here. There is no moral compass. It's all about the money. If you only have two lines, you're going to produce the product that yields the highest margin dollars. Period.
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
We're talking about China factories here. There is no moral compass. It's all about the money. If you only have two lines, you're going to produce the product that yields the highest margin dollars. Period.
And here is where you are wrong.

Seasonic main factory is in China and does Seasonic produce low quality PSUs? No they don't. As you know, Seasonic PSUs are leading force in PSU world and they are one of the best (if not the best) PSUs currently out there. Same goes with Super Flower. Their factory is also located in China and Super Flower's Leadex platform PSUs are also one of the best PSUs on the market.
Just because factory is in China doesn't instantly mean it's a bad product.

It's about the choice of making 10 products with $100 a piece or making 100 products with $10 a piece. In both cases, the income is same ($1000) while build quality is not.
Example:
On one side, you have only 2x lines that produce only PSUs and nothing else. With it, you put all the allowance into PSU R&D. Fine tuning it close to the perfection.
On the other side, you have 2x lines for PSUs and rather than investing into PSU R&D, you add 3rd line for PC cases and 4th line for rackmount chassis, to increase the overall volume. Due to that, your PSU line suffers since the allowance for PSU R&D is considerably smaller thanks to the other products you produce. Here, you are like Jack of all trades but master of none.

In above example, 1st one is Seasonic while 2nd one is HEC/Compucase. Since Seasonic specializes only on PSUs and HEC/Compucase makes 3 different kind of hardware: PC cases, PSUs and rackmount chassis; HEC/Compucase PSUs doesn't fare so well against Seasonic PSUs. While the volume of made PSUs between two companies is about the same.
In business aspect, both methods work fine since Seasonic has been around since 1975 and HEC/Compucase has been around since 1979. But in knowledgeable consumer standpoint, you'd be willing to pay more money for a good quality product than buying several low quality products. Especially when the said product has the ability to fry your entire PC when it goes sky high or at worst, burn down your entire house.
 
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jonnyguru

Distinguished
And here is where you are wrong.

Seasonic main factory is in China and does Seasonic produce low quality PSUs? No they don't. As you know, Seasonic PSUs are leading force in PSU world and they are one of the best (if not the best) PSUs currently out there. Same goes with Super Flower. Their factory is also located in China and Super Flower's Leadex platform PSUs are also one of the best PSUs on the market.
Just because factory is in China doesn't instantly mean it's a bad product.

It's about the choice of making 10 products with $100 a piece or making 100 products with $10 a piece. In both cases, the income is same ($1000) while build quality is not.
Example:
On one side, you have only 2x lines that produce only PSUs and nothing else. With it, you put all the allowance into PSU R&D. Fine tuning it close to the perfection.
On the other side, you have 2x lines for PSUs and rather than investing into PSU R&D, you add 3rd line for PC cases and 4th line for rackmount chassis, to increase the overall volume. Due to that, your PSU line suffers since the allowance for PSU R&D is considerably smaller thanks to the other products you produce. Here, you are like Jack of all trades but master of none.

In above example, 1st one is Seasonic while 2nd one is HEC/Compucase. Since Seasonic specializes only on PSUs and HEC/Compucase makes 3 different kind of hardware: PC cases, PSUs and rackmount chassis; HEC/Compucase PSUs doesn't fare so well against Seasonic PSUs. While the volume of made PSUs between two companies is about the same.
In business aspect, both methods work fine since Seasonic has been around since 1975 and HEC/Compucase has been around since 1979. But in knowledgeable consumer standpoint, you'd be willing to pay more money for a good quality product than buying several low quality products. Especially when the said product has the ability to fry your entire PC when it goes sky high or at worst, burn down your entire house.
I disagree. And I used to think "here's where you need a competent review to judge a PSU by its individual merit." But since leaving reviewing, I've learned that even PSUs that can score 10s in review can have really high RMA rates. Because a review is a sample of one. Even if it's store bought, it can't be representative of every product from every shift. I've been to many, many factories in China. Many of them make products that review well, but I shudder when I watch an entire orderloaded into a container.

Im leaving the conversation here. I know what I know, but can only say so much.
 

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