Old stuff vs. New stuff. Longevity.

[Endre]

Did anyone else observe, that in all of the newer technologies, Items seem to be better, faster, brighter, but a lot more FRAGILE?

A family used their refrigerator for 40 years straight! Finally, they decided to replace it (though it still worked), with a new one.
2 years later, they had repair the new refrigerator because it stopped working!

This FRAGILITY trend seems to become a general truth about all electronic devices!
Phones, amplifiers, cars, washing machines, etc.
It’s like, the manufacturers already had in mind that these new products shouldn’t resist for a long time.

PS: Do you think that this is intentional, or is it just because they go cheap on the materials that they are using?

 

[rgd1101]

2 years later, they had repair the new refrigerator

that because they don't build to last anymore. and too much tech on them

is it just because they go cheap on the materials that they are using?

Yup

 

[cdrkf]

Did anyone else observe, that in all of the newer technologies, Items seem to be better, faster, brighter, but a lot more FRAGILE?

A family used their refrigerator for 40 years straight! Finally, they decided to replace it (though it still worked), with a new one.
2 years later, they had repair the new refrigerator because it stopped working!

This FRAGILITY trend seems to become a general truth about all electronic devices!
Phones, amplifiers, cars, washing machines, etc.
It’s like, the manufacturers already had in mind that these new products shouldn’t resist for a long time.

PS: Do you think that this is intentional, or is it just because they go cheap on the materials that they are using?

I think it depends on what you are talking about, what brand and so on... a big change is the fact much of this technology is far cheaper than it used to be. PC's are a good example- in the 80's a desktop PC was easily £2000, and keep in mind £2000 in the 1980's was worth a lot more than it is now. The same has happened with white goods too, and the savings had to come from somewhere...

 

[Endre]

I think it depends on what you are talking about, what brand and so on... a big change is the fact much of this technology is far cheaper than it used to be. PC's are a good example- in the 80's a desktop PC was easily £2000, and keep in mind £2000 in the 1980's was worth a lot more than it is now. The same has happened with white goods too, and the savings had to come from somewhere...

I’m talking about “legit” brands that used to make good stuff.

For instance, I still own a Harman Kardon AVR-330 receiver, made in 2003. It works flawlessly! But it’s incredibly heavy: 30.64lbs (13.89Kg).
The newer receivers made by Harman look better, have more sonic power, but they are twice lighter!

A friend of mine has a professional photo camera made by Canon in 2007, and he said that the newer cameras (2010+), made by Canon are “all plastic”. They make good photos, but they are made of cheap materials.
And they still cost a “fortune”.

The examples go on...

 

[mmurley]

And products are built to be non-repairable. There was a time that if your TV went on the fritz, you took it to the repairman. Now you throw it away and buy another.

 

[Alabalcho]

And products are built to be non-repairable

This is in direct correlation with the final price of the product. That 1980's TV used to cost (in comparable values) five, ten times what it costs now. The technology level back then just did not allow to fit all TV on single 5x5 PCB. So it kind of makes (business) sense NOT to design current tech to be repairable, especially with $100/hour technicians.

 

[USAFRet]

In choosing a new HVAC system for the house, consultation with 3 different techs and companies.
To drive down costs, parts are made with thinner gauge steel and copper. Which wears through or leaks sooner.

 

[USAFRet]

I’m talking about “legit” brands that used to make good stuff.

Also, a lot of "legit brands" have been subverted into 'name only'.

 

[Solandri]

A family used their refrigerator for 40 years straight! Finally, they decided to replace it (though it still worked), with a new one.
2 years later, they had repair the new refrigerator because it stopped working!

Most of those devices actually should have a service life shorter than 40 years. Modern refrigerators use about $50-$100 of electricity in a year. Older ones can use $200+. This is due to technological improvements in both insulation and refrigeration (though there was a short period where efficiency went down when ozone-depleting chemicals were banned), as well as wear and tear reducing its efficiency. So in a decade of using an older refrigerator, you can end up paying more in extra electricity than how much it would've cost to buy a newer refrigerator. I don't even want to think how much electricity your 40 year old refrigerator was wasting.

Likewise, smartphones don't really need to be built to last more than about 5 years. Washing machines have improved dramatically in the last 2 decades (though their efficiency seems to have plateaued). Car fuel efficiency has also improved dramatically in the same time, reliability has improved, and the emissions standards tightened (a single 1970s car spews out more pollutants than something like a thousand modern cars).

That's not to say there aren't devices which should be built to last. A standalone amp sounds like something which you could reasonably use for 40 years, although I'm going to have to replace my 8 year old AV receiver/amp soon since it doesn't support 4k video nor refresh rates over 60 Hz over HDMI. And my parents finally replaced an electric can opener they bought in the 1970s (the axle hole on the disk containing the metal cutting teeth widened enough it could no longer bite into a can reliably).

But most high-tech products will be obsolete well before the 10 year mark. Heck, I don't recommend using computers older than Sandy Bridge, and that was released just 9 years ago.

PS: Do you think that this is intentional, or is it just because they go cheap on the materials that they are using?

It's because people aren't willing to pay more for higher quality products. The way capitalism works is that every time you buy/don't buy something, you are voting. Your decision to buy means you think the price is worth it and you are casting a vote saying "the price is right." Likewise, when you decide not to buy something you are casting a vote saying "the price is too high."

Manufacturers don't care about high quality OR low quality. They just care about making money. So if their customers aren't willing to pay the higher price for high quality, they can't make money off of it, so they won't make high quality products. A good counter-example is DSLRs. They give you probably only a 10%-50% edge in photo-taking performance over the latest smartphone cameras. (Yes I know they perform much better in low-light. But so few of your photos will be taken in low light that the overall difference they make is small.) But there's a dedicated market of enthusiasts and professionals willing to pay for high-end DSLRs. They will fork over thousands of dollars for a good DSLR, while a smartphone camera module has dropped in price to about $10. So camera makers continue to make DSLRs.

 

[TerryLaze]

It's called Planned obsolescence,watch the light bulb conspiracy.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdh7_PA8GZU

Also check out these two channels,they do Apple repairs and it's insane how many of them are very simple things that Apple care just turns away without any reason.
iPad Rehab
Louis Rossmann

 

[Endre]

It's called Planned obsolescence,watch the light bulb conspiracy.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdh7_PA8GZU

Also check out these two channels,they do Apple repairs and it's insane how many of them are very simple things that Apple care just turns away without any reason.
iPad Rehab
Louis Rossmann

Yeah!
They want us to replace the entire product for a small part that doesn’t work anymore.
But that’s another way to destroy the resources of our planet!

 

[King_V]

Did anyone else observe, that in all of the newer technologies, Items seem to be better, faster, brighter, but a lot more FRAGILE?

I wouldn't say that's a valid conclusion. You're making a blanket statement over all technology in general.

A family used their refrigerator for 40 years straight! Finally, they decided to replace it (though it still worked), with a new one.
2 years later, they had repair the new refrigerator because it stopped working!

Sample size of 1. That's sub-par for even anecdotal evidence. I replaced a refrigerator made in the 80s when I moved in 2003. It was still working (though it had to be repaired once relatively early in its life), I simply had it included with the sale of the house. And my bought-new-in-2006 refrigerator is still going strong. How can you know that a refrigerator made today, or 5 years ago, or 15 years ago, won't last for 40 years? That much time hasn't passed yet.

This FRAGILITY trend seems to become a general truth about all electronic devices!

Phones, amplifiers, cars, washing machines, etc.

This is begging the question. The example of the refrigerator that you brought up doesn't qualify as an electronic device, the way, say, a smartphone or a PC does. "It seems to be" - etc. Do you have an exhaustive amount of data for repair records of various types of electronics, etc., year by year? And what percentage needed repairs, etc?

Are you comparing smart phones of today with the expensive, rented, simple phones of the 1970s?

My washer and dryer are the same units I bought in 2006 when I moved here.

Cars are FAR more reliable than they used to be, and have vastly superior handling, better fuel economy, cleaner emissions, better rustproofing and paint durability, etc., despite the fact that we've let roads and such decay pretty atrociously.

It’s like, the manufacturers already had in mind that these new products shouldn’t resist for a long time.

PS: Do you think that this is intentional, or is it just because they go cheap on the materials that they are using?

I think you're ranting, to be quite frank. You're making a lot of generalized statements without backing it with evidence, relying only on one example here or there, and just making claims.

 

[Endre]

I wouldn't say that's a valid conclusion. You're making a blanket statement over all technology in general.


Sample size of 1. That's sub-par for even anecdotal evidence. I replaced a refrigerator made in the 80s when I moved in 2003. It was still working (though it had to be repaired once relatively early in its life), I simply had it included with the sale of the house. And my bought-new-in-2006 refrigerator is still going strong. How can you know that a refrigerator made today, or 5 years ago, or 15 years ago, won't last for 40 years? That much time hasn't passed yet.


This is begging the question. The example of the refrigerator that you brought up doesn't qualify as an electronic device, the way, say, a smartphone or a PC does. "It seems to be" - etc. Do you have an exhaustive amount of data for repair records of various types of electronics, etc., year by year? And what percentage needed repairs, etc?

Are you comparing smart phones of today with the expensive, rented, simple phones of the 1970s?

My washer and dryer are the same units I bought in 2006 when I moved here.

Cars are FAR more reliable than they used to be, and have vastly superior handling, better fuel economy, cleaner emissions, better rustproofing and paint durability, etc., despite the fact that we've let roads and such decay pretty atrociously.



I think you're ranting, to be quite frank. You're making a lot of generalized statements without backing it with evidence, relying only on one example here or there, and just making claims.

Let me give you some “evidences”:

1. Mercedes-Benz “Cobra”, generally, was able to run one million killometres without repairs!
2. My washing machine is Candy C1-105 (made in Italy). I bought it in 2006 and it still works well.

The personnel from the store that I bought this machine from, told me in 2019 that Candy is no longer as reliable as it was in 2006!

1. At my job, I work on computerized milling machines. The ones made by Siemens in 1990’s and early 2000’s are very robust compared to all the new ones, made after 2010!
2. A friend of mine bought a Sony CD-Player in 1989 and it still works perfectly today!

I know someone that bought a Sony stereo system with CD-Players after 2010, and it stopped working after 7 years.
5. The resistance and durability of the Nokia 3210 compared to any modern phone!

And the list goes on...

 

[King_V]

Your "evidence" is a sample size of 5 total items.

Your evidence of decline for Candy is based on one person's comment. They may be right, they may be wrong. As has been alluded to in a previous post, all it takes is a change of management or ownership to destroy one company's reputation. You can't make a blanket statement about all washing machines based on what that one store employee told you about one brand.

Your statement about milling machines is without evidence. How many milling machines? What metric did you use to determine overall reliability, not just of the units you happened to use, but of ALL the machines of those same models used by everyone worldwide?

Comparing the Nokia 3210 to a modern phone is ridiculous. That's like comparing a pocket calculator from the 1980s to a PC. It doesn't have a touch screen, much processing power, etc. Whereas modern phones, the entire thing is a screen, and its capabilities are more than just as a phone.

For those who don't remember - THIS is what's being compared to a modern phone.

Other than the fact that it has the name "phone" in the product, and that they can actually make phone calls, they have absolutely NO relation to each other.


TL;DR - your sample size is FAR too small, and relies only on gut feeling, vague, unquantifiable memories of the past.

 

[Endre]

Your "evidence" is a sample size of 5 total items.

Your evidence of decline for Candy is based on one person's comment. They may be right, they may be wrong. As has been alluded to in a previous post, all it takes is a change of management or ownership to destroy one company's reputation. You can't make a blanket statement about all washing machines based on what that one store employee told you about one brand.

Your statement about milling machines is without evidence. How many milling machines? What metric did you use to determine overall reliability, not just of the units you happened to use, but of ALL the machines of those same models used by everyone worldwide?

Comparing the Nokia 3210 to a modern phone is ridiculous. That's like comparing a pocket calculator from the 1980s to a PC. It doesn't have a touch screen, much processing power, etc. Whereas modern phones, the entire thing is a screen, and its capabilities are more than just as a phone.

For those who don't remember - THIS is what's being compared to a modern phone.

Other than the fact that it has the name "phone" in the product, and that they can actually make phone calls, they have absolutely NO relation to each other.


TL;DR - your sample size is FAR too small, and relies only on gut feeling, vague, unquantifiable memories of the past.

I won’t give you a list of 10.000 products so I can convince you.
But life, in general, might convince you on the long run.

By the way, you had no comment on Mercedes-Benz Cobra and its legendary durability!

Also, I’m working in a factory, with hundreds of milling machines around me since 2002! I know what I’m talking about.

Have a good day!

 

[King_V]

Of course you won't, because a large enough sample size would disprove your assertion.

Life, in the long run, has convinced me that I've heard this many times before.

People in the 2010s saying that things in the 2000s and 1990s were made better.
People in the 2000s saying things in the 1990s and 1980s were made better.
People in the 1990s saying things in the 1980s and 1970s were made better.
etc etc. Same general complaint. Based more in nostalgia and viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.

I can say nothing about the Mercedes-Benz Cobra because I have never heard of it until now. Did you own one? How many people owned them? Were they a common car, or a high-end luxury item? Where's your data other than a vague statement of "generally"


Hundreds of milling machines? So you've worked with every manufacturer and model ever made since 2002? And you've worked with dozens of each brand and model?


This all boils down to: "asserting facts without sufficient data." In other words, it's an opinion, of questionable accuracy at best, until proven otherwise.