[SOLVED] Oldies... i7-870 and GTX 770?

1405

Distinguished
Aug 26, 2012
529
8
18,995
3
12 year old CPU and 8 year old graphic card.
I have an i7-870 OC to 3.8 Gz and came across a used (obviously) GTX 770 4GB at a fair price. I wanted to put together some old parts for a retro 1080p gamer. All I'm lacking is the graphic card. Which component would be the bottleneck to the other? Bottleneck Calculator says it's OK, but I was told not to trust that site.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013
144,726
8,689
175,340
22,584
12 year old CPU and 8 year old graphic card.
I have an i7-870 OC to 3.8 Gz and came across a used (obviously) GTX 770 4GB at a fair price. I wanted to put together some old parts for a retro 1080p gamer. All I'm lacking is the graphic card. Which component would be the bottleneck to the other? Bottleneck Calculator says it's OK, but I was told not to trust that site.
"but I was told not to trust that site."

Sage advice.

That thing is useless. Worse than useless.

"bottleneck" does not matter. Not something you can put a number to.
Put them together, and run what you want.
Either it works to your satisfaction, or it does not.
 
Reactions: SamirD
Yep, F worrying about 'bottlenecks'. That's like worrying if your tires are keeping your engine from running fast. Just put them together and enjoy. What holds what back will differ based on the software anyways so it's an infinite target.
 

1405

Distinguished
Aug 26, 2012
529
8
18,995
3
Actually guys, I wasn't "worrying" about anything. I was just wondering which of those two components was the limiting factor for, say... 1080p gaming. As mentioned, it is a retro build. Sort of a fun project... seeing what a 12 Y.O. CPU can still do in 2021 with a 8 Y.O. GPU.

It's not my only PC.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013
144,726
8,689
175,340
22,584
Actually guys, I wasn't "worrying" about anything. I was just wondering which of those two components was the limiting factor for, say... 1080p gaming. As mentioned, it is a retro build. Sort of a fun project... seeing what a 12 Y.O. CPU can still do in 2021 with a 8 Y.O. GPU.

It's not my only PC.
Power it up.
Play with the graphics settings.
See what happens.
 
Jul 15, 2021
16
1
15
0
Youtube is full with video's that will show you the power of the Intel socket 1366 platform.
I can testify about this, because I still game and work on this old platform on 1080p.

USAFret is spot on.....

Bottleneck calculators do not realy show you what your upgrade boost is.
yes there can be a bottleneck with an upgrade, but it still can boost a complete system.
The i7 870 works perfectly with the GTX770, but a GTX1050, 1070, etc works too. Yes even a RTX2060 or 3090 can work.
More important, is the balance of the bottleneck good enough to give your PC that boost that is needed to play certain games and is
the bottleneck balanced enough in a money/boost performance way?

I do not know what the rest of your hardware is. What Mainboard, do you use? information about chipsets, PCIexpress ports are needed to look for the weakest link in you system. Do you still use IDE Hard drives or SATA or SSD. Sounds stupid, but an 8 year old SATA drive can slow your system down. Read and write speeds are not even up to par with the modern ones. Do you still have an IDE device like a DVD player in there? Trust me, can slow everything down. SSD's are still one of the best upgrades for speeding up old PC's.
What is the Ram configuration? (16GB in 2x8 or one of 16?....... maybe it slows things down, if it isn't placed correctly. Like using one ramstick on a dualchannel chipset. Or using one or two ramsticks on a triple channel chipset. These mistakes are still made today and slow down modern computers) This all matters in terms of limits or what I rather see:
Solutions to boost the limits.
Can you post this?

I have a lot of experience with older socket 1366 platform and modern gaming, I can tell some limits, but sharing more info means: More specific answers.
Also: what games do you want to play or playing. Games like (Far Cry 5 (primal,etc), Sea of Thieves, Fortnite, COD Warzone. Rage 2, The outer Worlds, GTA5, Civilization 6, etc.
Some games have impact on GPU, some on CPU.
With the info you did post, I can tell in detail why things are a limiting factors from my own experience and knowledge,

1) CPU.: The 870 on your OC speed can limit the system in combination with some GPU's. Again hard to say without information about the games you want to play.
Is it upgradable? Yes. is it expensive? Yes and no. If you look at the 970, 980x and 990x (the last two still pack a pretty hard punch) Prices are steep and not worth it.
No, if you get yourself a dirtcheap 2nd hand Xeon. The 1366 socket champion of today is? the Xeon X5675. 6 cores, 12 threads. Stock speeds: 3.06Ghz. Turbo 3.46Ghz.
The Xeons are not unlocked, but this generation Intel CPU's are Baseclock overclockable just like the 870 series.
Xeon CPU's are made to withstand high temps, because its use in hot server environments. This means that not having a state of the art cooler is more forgiving There are server setups where these where cooled with passive coolingribs. If you have a top notch cooler OC-ing is going to be a lot higher.
But this all depends on the watercoolingset and your luck in the silicon lottery. Stock speeds: 3.06Ghz. Turbo 3.46Ghz. OC-ing can get you to max 4.5Ghz what I have seen.
I myself run on 4.2Ghz turbo speed. And thermals not even close to the 100 degrees celsius limit. (mine doesn't get even close to 80c when playing games.)

Now talk money: I checked today and found prices arround €30 or more in Europe. Server companies dare to ask €200. European Amazon and E-bay show prices today like €30 to €60. In the US I have seen prices like $15 to $40 and higher.

2)the GPU GTX 770 4GB . This is the component you wanted to buy. I don't know what kind of games you want to play, but I do know that this card has had its time.
I have upgraded the PC of my niece with a i7 6700k running insane speeds on watercooling and a GTX 770. Fortnite ran like crap.
I popped in a dirt cheap 3GB GTX1050 (1 GB less and nobody wants them even with silicon shortage.) It ran better. The 1050 has newer tech and that can also make a difference.
I tested the 770 in my PC since I have an older CPU. Card was fine. Just not fast enough anymore. According to several bottleneck sites it was a 100% match. The 1070 extreme gaming was not. well......... Fortnite ran like crap, Sea of thieves ran like crap. Just cause 4 terrible. With the 1070 and the bottlenecking X5675 it runs on High and smooth.

For games like the Sims and older games it is still great, Tested it on Fallout 4, Farcry 4 and it ran fine, GTA5 ran fine....... Far Cry 5 was a cry too far.... Popped in the 1070 again.

So the important question that remains is: What games do you want to play?
 
Reactions: SamirD

1405

Distinguished
Aug 26, 2012
529
8
18,995
3
Youtube is full with video's that will show you the power of the Intel socket 1366 platform.
I can testify about this, because I still game and work on this old platform on 1080p....


...So the important question that remains is: What games do you want to play?
The i7-870 is not a 1366 socket. It is 1156. But I get your point.
As this is a retro build "just for fun", I doubt I'll be playing AAA games on it. Even at 1080p. Although, I did finally pick up that Evga GTX 770 FTW 4GB I mentioned above. Running the benchmark in "Shadow of the Tomb Raider" using the highest settings at 1080p, it averaged 31 fps. Seemed smooth and playable to my eye. Of course, that game is no fast paced FPS. So there's that. I would probably play single player games at high settings on it since it wouldn't have a chance in multi-player FPS competition. Here's the results of the benchmark run...

When trying to figure out if the CPU or GPU was the limiting component, I got confused by the two graphs. The top graph seems to show the CPU and GPU are evenly matched, the bottom graph and chart seems to show the OC CPU still has headroom for a faster card. Can you or anyone else decipher please.
 
Last edited:
Jul 15, 2021
16
1
15
0
My bad you are completely right. 870 is not 1366. Somewhere in my head I put it in the line with the 970....etc. Man I need a vacation. Those are 1366.
If you get 30fps straight with no drops. A game can be playable. So that is a nice outcome.
 

1405

Distinguished
Aug 26, 2012
529
8
18,995
3
On Ultra settings then the GPU will always be the bottleneck. Run it at Medium and the CPU will be the bottleneck.
Gotcha. Thanks.
I only play at best settings. I'm not competitive enough to go for low graphics settings to get the best fps. So now I'm thinking the old Lynnfield processor still has some life. Maybe it can handle more card. Might try my RX 5500 XT in it just for comparison.
Any idea what those two graphs are trying to tell me? Why one has CPU/GPU even and one doesn't?
 

TommyTwoTone66

Prominent
Apr 24, 2021
567
118
590
14
Any idea what those two graphs are trying to tell me? Why one has CPU/GPU even and one doesn't?
Not a clue, I've not seen that type of graph or benchmark before...

What I can say is that reducing certain settings like FSAA, shadows and reflections makes little difference to visual quality and boosts FPS by a lot. To me, a game dialled back a little and running at a solid 60 FPS always looks subjectively "better" than one at 30 FPS with all the eye candy on.
 

1405

Distinguished
Aug 26, 2012
529
8
18,995
3
@ NoizePMP
I forgot you asked for more system specs...

Asus
P7P55D-E LX motherboard
Win 10 (Legacy mode)
i7-870 (OC 3.8GHz)
120GB SSD
320GB HDD
Evga GTX 770 FTW 4GB
650W Antec Earthwatts PSU
4x4GB DDR3 1600MHz

...basically just old components I had on hand.
 
Jul 15, 2021
16
1
15
0
The system specs are fine for an older system. 870 is one of the faster 1156 socket CPU's and the OC speed is up to par with some modern CPU's. The techniques used in this CPU will be less efficient than in the newer CPU's.
There is headroom for a faster GPU card, but since you have the GTX770, we have to look how we can balance the quality/performance settings.

I know the Shadow of the Tombraider benchmark and it basicly shows how wel the system is performing with certain settings,
Since at the beginning of the thread, you stated you wanted high settings, but looking at the screenshot it seems you want ultra: The best quality the game can run on you PC.

Tommy Two tone has a point that with higher framerates you have a smoother game, but....... What refresh rates does your monitor support? I will get to this.
(nothing personal Tommy!!!)
If I look at the screenshot, the highest is above 50FPS, but the lowest is under 30FPS.

I used to work in the video/audio industry as a professional soundengineer and I know (and seen enough tests and clinical studies) that the human eye and brain are seeing
30FPS as smooth. It is not that strange that movies and video's are coded for a long time on 30FPS. When there was black and white TV it was in 30FPS (Not everybody remembers this)
When the colorTV was invented, they needed to add color information. This meant that a broadcast would take longer than a BW broadcast. To make this even they invented the dropframe speed: NTSC USA standard. This skipped a 1.8 frame every minute. This is an avarage of 29,97FPS. In that way a BW and color broadcast/movie ended at the same time.
No body notices the skipped frame.
Since games are played realtime FPS is more dynamic. If you would play a game at 20FPS all the time, at first it gives you an akward feeling. After a while the brain gets used to it.
if the framerate is not stable and dynamic the human brain wil register this as not smooth. A lot of people have this feeling when they start watching a movie with 'clay' figure stock animation. Even when the framerate of the picture itself is at 30FPS or with HD standards 60FPS, the animation itself can never be made as smooth as reallive acting, modern cartoons.
So if you game at 30FPS straight no dips, it wil register as smooth. You wil only see a difference between 30FPS and 60FPS as you show the material side by side. (Look up youtube video's with side by side comparison of GPU's.

If your monitor has a refreshrate of 30Herz, don't bother to let your PC work to get it at 60FPS. You wil only see 30FPS. With this knowledge, you can finetune a PC
To work not as hard. This means, less heat, noise and eventualy a better life span. Modern games have an option to limit the game at an certain FPS. By not having to work at a dynamic FPS rate, this gives headroom for other calculations.

With the benchmark it is clear that at moments the game has to calculate a lot of objects (sometimes the scene looks quiet, but al the moving leaves in the trees, Lara Croft's hair moving, birds woving is still taking its toll to calculate. With graphical settings on, that need a lot of calculating power of the CPU will take its toll on an acceptable framrate. The GPU can't calculate it fast enough. When playing on higher detail, it also takes a toll on GPU memory.
So you need to find a balance somewhere. I rather have a game to be on 30FPS all the time because my monitor runs at 30Herz than a game that drops and spikes over the place from 23FPS to lets say 60FPS. Above 30FPS your monitor doesn't simpy doesn't show the extra FPS, but below is vissable.
At some point, you are going to see the drops.

So if you have a monitor @30herz, cap the FPS at 30FPS. This trick is also used to put faster GPU's in older PC's to reduce bottleneck. Like my Xeon and GTX1070. I have a 144Herz monitor, but my PC can't handle this. Capping the FPS to 30FPS gives headroom to the GPU to do other things. No I can't play Sea of Thieves on the highest settings, BUT is runs really smooth and still look great. But not the best. PC gaming is always about the darn balance of Quality v.s. speed. Wanting both costs money.

So Tommy Two tone has a point about balance with ultra and medium, but since the CPU and GPU are pretty good matched, bottlenecking is not something I should worry about, but he has a very good point about the use of anisotropic filtering. Filtering costs a lot of GPU power.

Since you want a good quality gameplay 1405. I wil try to translate the benchmark into some things you can try to change=a balanced gameplay of quality and speed.

-Cap the FPS to 30 on Shadow of the Tombraider getting some headroom. (I played the game a long time ago, but I believe it supports capping FPS)
- Start lowering all heavy GPU settings like anisotropic filter and the ambiant occlusion. The last shows realistic light effects, but are not always visable. It DOES need a lot of GPU power.
Run another benchmark, play some games to see if you like it, If it runs rock solid above 30FPS, you can turn the notch up.
Try to do this with all GPU heavy settings. (shadows etc.)

If you like it, try to turn it on one setting higher. When you do not really see a difference with a higher setting, or you don't really mind the difference, put it back on the lower setting, to preserve headroom.
You can also do this with other games.
But there is always the limit with what a game is programmed for and what the GPU can do.
So when turning off all graphical settings, does not help in getting a stable FPS and it is dipping under the 30FPS and bothers you,
Detail settings like (HD) texturepacks can also be a limitation, because it needs more GPU memory. Some newer games need 8GB for HD textures.
Things like draw distance can make a difference. Do you want to put in on very far, while you can't see very far, since the distance is blocked by objects.

Simply why let your computer work very hard at things you wil not see, use or notice.
Like driving a sportscar in a high gear to get massive torque, but you can only drive 30. Useless (even in a normal car) because the ride is going to be bumpy, agressive and not feeling smooth.

Sometimes you can even find a nicer result in not using a high detailed resolution texture pack in combination with some higher filtering, etc.
Like my son complaining a game didn't play nice with a monster PC, but a full HD 30Herz monitor. He was using a texture pack used for 4K gaming.
His PC was working too hard for something you can barely see.

There is a lot more to write, but eventualy you 1405 are the person that decides what is feeling and looking right and what is not.

Good luck
 
Last edited:

lga1156_ftw

Respectable
Feb 25, 2020
1,263
146
2,390
176
@ NoizePMP
I forgot you asked for more system specs...

Asus
P7P55D-E LX motherboard
Win 10 (Legacy mode)
i7-870 (OC 3.8GHz)
120GB SSD
320GB HDD
Evga GTX 770 FTW 4GB
650W Antec Earthwatts PSU
4x4GB DDR3 1600MHz

...basically just old components I had on hand.
Im still using x3470 (same socket than i7-870, 4 core 8 thread, slightly better overclocker) on my main rig (paired with msi 980ti, which is slight overkill, i maxed out 970 every game so went for it) and im happy with 200-250 fps in valorant and 300fps in csgo. This is obviously on very low settings and i tweaked around for a good while (1080p). I can get my chip running at 4.3ghz with HT on, Asus P7P55D (which one you also have) is one of best motherboard to overclock i7-870.

I get higher single core performance with this ancient 15 dollar cpu than Ryzen 5 3600 on stock, its nothing to laugh at. I can help you in detail if your interested in overclocking it further (including ram) and have good cooling, delidding lowers temperature by further -15celsius. Im not 100% sure if you can delid i7 series but xeons does not have soldered IHS
 
Last edited:
Jul 15, 2021
16
1
15
0
Be nice.... This thread is about getting 1405, the max out of games with older hardware he has now.

No amount of overclocking without LN2 will make an 870 have the performance of a modern CPU.
Not even my 990x @4.5ghz can come remotely close to a 3600 in single core. Its not even that close to a 1600 ae.

A 870 will come nowhere near a modern current gen cpu in performance.
I allready stated:

the OC speed is up to par with some modern CPU's. The techniques used in this CPU will be less efficient than in the newer CPU's.
 

NightHawkRMX

Polypheme
Ambassador
I know the i7 870 is still capable of gaming and whatnot. The i7 870 and GTX770 should be an balanced pairing, and the limiting factor will vary from game to game.

I just am trying to clarify some things I saw that I do not agree with based on benchmarks from my own systems from the era.

The techniques used in this CPU will be less efficient than in the newer CPU's.
I am not quite sure what you mean by this. I am assuming you saying the clock speed when overclocked is on par with newer CPUs but the IPC is lower than contemporary CPUs?

That is true, I just did not understand your statement at first, my apologies.
 

Bazzy 505

Proper
Jul 17, 2021
249
82
170
4
12 year old CPU and 8 year old graphic card.
I have an i7-870 OC to 3.8 Gz and came across a used (obviously) GTX 770 4GB at a fair price. I wanted to put together some old parts for a retro 1080p gamer. All I'm lacking is the graphic card. Which component would be the bottleneck to the other? Bottleneck Calculator says it's OK, but I was told not to trust that site.
that CPU for all its historical value is roughly half of what Phenom 2 965 can put out, and even that is just about enough to play games roughly from Unreal Engine 3 era.
For that kind of games even something above 200/300 series is a needless overkill.

If you want to get into anything remotely recent, save you money for i5 11400 platform, play on IGP till you can set a little cash aside, and than you can put that GTX 770 to use. But i would argue for 20 bucks more you get a very decent 900 series card on ebay, which at least is still supported by nvidia.
 
Jul 15, 2021
16
1
15
0
that CPU for all its historical value is roughly half of what Phenom 2 965 can put out, and even that is just about enough to play games roughly from Unreal Engine 3 era.
For that kind of games even something above 200/300 series is a needless overkill.

If you want to get into anything remotely recent, save you money for i5 11400 platform, play on IGP till you can set a little cash aside, and than you can put that GTX 770 to use. But i would argue for 20 bucks more you get a very decent 900 series card on ebay, which at least is still supported by nvidia.
The whole thing about this thread is not getting 1405 a new PC, but getting the max out of this system WITHOUT buying a whole new PC.
It is possible with limitations, so it is all about tweaking and find the best quality vs performance settings.

1405 hasn't posted anything new about trying other settings.

So I guess we have to wait on a response.
 

Bazzy 505

Proper
Jul 17, 2021
249
82
170
4
The whole thing about this thread is not getting 1405 a new PC, but getting the max out of this system WITHOUT buying a whole new PC.
It is possible with limitations, so it is all about tweaking and find the best quality vs performance settings.

1405 hasn't posted anything new about trying other settings.

So I guess we have to wait on a response.
the point i'm trying to make is not about buying a 1500buck pc, what i'm trying to say is i7 870 is too old and too weak of platform to really take a real benefit even from 7 year old kepler family GPUs. I7 870 was not particularly competetive even when it was new to begin with.

If it were an old legacy platform from similar era (Ivy bridge, Haswell, Hawshell-WS, Broadwell) , i would have heartily recommended 770 GTX for the right price.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS