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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Zapping a wand of cancellation at the ground where there is a magic trap
would untrap the magic trap or disarm it or make it disappear altogether.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Haakon Studebaker <heptapod@gmail.com> writes:

> Zapping a wand of cancellation at the ground where there is a magic trap
> would untrap the magic trap or disarm it or make it disappear altogether.

Supported. I really like this idea.

Best,
Jakob
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:

>>Zapping a wand of cancellation at the ground where there is a magic trap
>>would untrap the magic trap or disarm it or make it disappear altogether.
>
> Supported. I really like this idea.

Me too, but I'd add disabling teleport traps too. Those seem about as
magical. Obviously not portals, though.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Zapping a wand of cancellation at the ground where there is a magic trap
> would untrap the magic trap or disarm it or make it disappear altogether.

Hmm, by that same logic, you'd have to disable polymorph traps and
teleport traps, too. Obviously not anti-magic fields :)

OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
You shoot 3 arrow.
The 1st arrow polymorphs into a sword.
The sword misses the kobold.
The 2nd arrow polymorphs into a bolt.
The bolt hits the kobold!
The 3rd arrow polymorhs into a quarterstaff.
The quarterstaff hits the kobold!
You kill the kobold!


Greetings,
Benjamin
--
Benjamin 'blindCoder' Schieder
Registered Linux User #289529: http://counter.li.org
finger blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net | gpg --import
--
/lusr/bin/brain: received signal: SIGIDIOT
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
(blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...

> OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.

Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by contact
(mainly weight).

But kicking items onto a polymorph trap (if they don't get too far)
could produce something interesting...


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gabriele Neukam wrote:
> On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
> (blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...
>
>>OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
>
> Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by contact
> (mainly weight).

Do flying monsters trigger poly traps? Some monsters automatically
avoid falling in pits, due to flying/hovering (ghosts, IIRC, bats as
well?); do these trigger poly traps? Can they "deliberately jump"?

Congressman
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Congressman Thompson <spam@blocked.com> wrote in news:MFwBe.5018$BK1.4470
@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> Gabriele Neukam wrote:
>> On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
>> (blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...
>>
>>>OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
>>
>> Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by
contact
>> (mainly weight).
>
> Do flying monsters trigger poly traps? Some monsters automatically
> avoid falling in pits, due to flying/hovering (ghosts, IIRC, bats as
> well?); do these trigger poly traps? Can they "deliberately jump"?
>
> Congressman
>

Flying monsters do trigger poly traps. Flying creatures escape bear
traps. Flying creatures trigger magic traps.

When I suggested the YANI, I had in mind to make it dangerous where the
player had to be standing on the trap and zap the wand downwards.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Sean" <sgegg@hotspammeallyouwantpop.com> wrote in message
news:U4sBe.59748$Fe7.195512@news000.worldonline.dk...
> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>
> >>Zapping a wand of cancellation at the ground where there is a magic trap
> >>would untrap the magic trap or disarm it or make it disappear
altogether.
> >
> > Supported. I really like this idea.
>
> Me too, but I'd add disabling teleport traps too. Those seem about as
> magical. Obviously not portals, though.

mmm... I'm surprised this isn't already implemented.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Sean wrote:

[ Disabling traps with cancellation ]

> Obviously not portals, though.

Why not? That will teach you not to do this with portals.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>Sean wrote:
>> Obviously not portals, though.
>
>Why not? That will teach you not to do this with portals.

A cursory inspection of dig.c suggests that portals are intended to be
impervious to harm.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
illusion/kinetics controlling is love
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder wrote:

> > Zapping a wand of cancellation at the ground where there is a magic trap
> > would untrap the magic trap or disarm it or make it disappear altogether.
>
> Hmm, by that same logic, you'd have to disable polymorph traps and
> teleport traps, too. Obviously not anti-magic fields :)
>
> OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
> You shoot 3 arrow.
> The 1st arrow polymorphs into a sword.
> The sword misses the kobold.
> The 2nd arrow polymorphs into a bolt.
> The bolt hits the kobold!
> The 3rd arrow polymorhs into a quarterstaff.
> The quarterstaff hits the kobold!
> You kill the kobold!

Well, +7 (or even better) arrows are already the best polyfood for
creating big weapons but they tend to disappear when polypiled in huge
chunk. If you have a way to polythrow them without "using" them and
without spending any charge/mana, that would be a awfully easy way to
generate your weapons.

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On that special day, Jym, (moyen@loria.fr) said...

> If you have a way to polythrow them without "using" them and
> without spending any charge/mana, that would be a awfully easy way to
> generate your weapons.

Isn't there a way to (d)rop them?


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

malcolmr.google@cse.unsw.edu.au wrote:
> And yes, you can cancel portals. Buyer beware.
>


This is live??? By live, I mean is this possible on, say, NAO....



.... where some might recall I lost a promising character to a seemingly
disabled Fort Ludios out-portal.


-777
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-07-14, Congressman Thompson wrote:
> Gabriele Neukam wrote:
>> On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
>> (blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...
>>
>>>OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
>>
>> Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by contact
>> (mainly weight).
>
> Do flying monsters trigger poly traps? Some monsters automatically
> avoid falling in pits, due to flying/hovering (ghosts, IIRC, bats as
> well?); do these trigger poly traps? Can they "deliberately jump"?
>
The weight of a bird that's flying inside a box can be measured when you
put the box on a scales. The weight of a dart flying through the area
cannot. So it'd be reasonable if flying (as opposed to levitating)
monsters triggered traps, but thrown objects didn't.

Ohle
--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
BOFH Excuse #272:
Netscape has crashed
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> "777" <jonathanshor@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > malcolmr.google@cse.unsw.edu.au wrote:
> > > And yes, you can cancel portals. Buyer beware.
> > >
> >
> > This is live??? By live, I mean is this possible on, say, NAO....
>
> AFAIK, NAO runs almost-vanilla-nethack, hence I doubt they'll
> incorporate it. However, unless there are some yet undiscovered
> serious gaemplay issues, I wouldn't be surprised if this patch
> would make it into the next version of vanilla: It's simple,
> stylish, rewards clever thinking and does not seem to interfere
> much with the rest of the game.


So, I'll take all that to mean no, it is not currently live on NAO.

And so my char was locked in Ludios to some other still unknown cause.
Makes sense, since I'm pretty sure I'd remember zapping a wand of
cancellation anywhere in the vacinity of the portal, never mind
directly down onto it.

As for adding such a patch to vanilla, I agree it's simple and stylish,
but there's not very much in the way of a reward here. I'll agree that
it punishes unclever thinking tho....
hmmm, unless you meant for the whole functionality of cancelling magic
traps. ::shrug:: Cancelling portals is not a reward in any situation I
can think up.



-777
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ohle Claussen <claussen@dpi.physik.uni-goettingen.de> writes:

> On 2005-07-14, Congressman Thompson wrote:
> > Gabriele Neukam wrote:
> >> On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
> >> (blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...
> >>
> >>>OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
> >>
> >> Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by contact
> >> (mainly weight).
> >
> > Do flying monsters trigger poly traps? Some monsters automatically
> > avoid falling in pits, due to flying/hovering (ghosts, IIRC, bats as
> > well?); do these trigger poly traps? Can they "deliberately jump"?
> >
> The weight of a bird that's flying inside a box can be measured when you
> put the box on a scales. The weight of a dart flying through the area
> cannot. So it'd be reasonable if flying (as opposed to levitating)
> monsters triggered traps, but thrown objects didn't.

Hmmh.. I never did simulations, but my impression is that
the reactio force of a bird is scattered over a much larger
area than it would be when it would walk. I doubt that the
pressure induced by a flying raven would suffice to trigger a
pressure plate designed for newts&more. And most larger flying
monsters obviously use magic or they couldn't fly at all.

Best,
Jakob
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> Ohle Claussen <claussen@dpi.physik.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>
>
>>On 2005-07-14, Congressman Thompson wrote:
>>
>>>Gabriele Neukam wrote:
>>>
>>>>On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
>>>>(blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
>>>>
>>>>Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by contact
>>>>(mainly weight).
>>>
>>>Do flying monsters trigger poly traps? Some monsters automatically
>>>avoid falling in pits, due to flying/hovering (ghosts, IIRC, bats as
>>>well?); do these trigger poly traps? Can they "deliberately jump"?
>>>
>>
>>The weight of a bird that's flying inside a box can be measured when you
>>put the box on a scales. The weight of a dart flying through the area
>>cannot. So it'd be reasonable if flying (as opposed to levitating)
>>monsters triggered traps, but thrown objects didn't.
>
>
> Hmmh.. I never did simulations, but my impression is that
> the reactio force of a bird is scattered over a much larger
> area than it would be when it would walk. I doubt that the
> pressure induced by a flying raven would suffice to trigger a
> pressure plate designed for newts&more. And most larger flying
> monsters obviously use magic or they couldn't fly at all.
>
> Best,
> Jakob

Here's an easy, non-scientific explanation: Polymorph traps magically
detect living creatures, and ignore non-living items.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-07-18, Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> Ohle Claussen <claussen@dpi.physik.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>> The weight of a bird that's flying inside a box can be measured when you
>> put the box on a scales. The weight of a dart flying through the area
>> cannot. So it'd be reasonable if flying (as opposed to levitating)
>> monsters triggered traps, but thrown objects didn't.
>
> Hmmh.. I never did simulations, but my impression is that
> the reactio force of a bird is scattered over a much larger
> area than it would be when it would walk. I doubt that the

Certainly. That's why I put my bird in a box first ;-)

> pressure induced by a flying raven would suffice to trigger a
> pressure plate designed for newts&more. And most larger flying
> monsters obviously use magic or they couldn't fly at all.

Of course, as always, you have to apply the NHINRL scaling factor.

Ohle
--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
BOFH Excuse #272:
Netscape has crashed
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"777" <jonathanshor@gmail.com> writes:

> malcolmr.google@cse.unsw.edu.au wrote:
> > And yes, you can cancel portals. Buyer beware.
> >
>
>
> This is live??? By live, I mean is this possible on, say, NAO....

AFAIK, NAO runs almost-vanilla-nethack, hence I doubt they'll
incorporate it. However, unless there are some yet undiscovered
serious gaemplay issues, I wouldn't be surprised if this patch
would make it into the next version of vanilla: It's simple,
stylish, rewards clever thinking and does not seem to interfere
much with the rest of the game.

Best,
Jakob
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

BManx2000 wrote:

>>>>> On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
>>>>> (blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...
>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by
>>>>> contact (mainly weight).
>>>>
>>>> Do flying monsters trigger poly traps? Some monsters automatically
>>>> avoid falling in pits, due to flying/hovering (ghosts, IIRC, bats as
>>>> well?); do these trigger poly traps? Can they "deliberately jump"?
>>>
>>> The weight of a bird that's flying inside a box can be measured when you
>>> put the box on a scales. The weight of a dart flying through the area
>>> cannot. So it'd be reasonable if flying (as opposed to levitating)
>>> monsters triggered traps, but thrown objects didn't.
>>
>> Hmmh.. I never did simulations, but my impression is that the reactio
>> force of a bird is scattered over a much larger area than it would be
>> when it would walk. I doubt that the pressure induced by a flying
>> raven would suffice to trigger a pressure plate designed for
>> newts&more. And most larger flying monsters obviously use magic or
>> they couldn't fly at all.
>> Best,
>> Jakob
>
> Here's an easy, non-scientific explanation: Polymorph traps magically
> detect living creatures, and ignore non-living items.

Not true. I've seen many a mummy, ghoul and vampire halfway through a
magic whistle polypolka and all of them have been turned into something
more useful. Golems too.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:55:59 +0200, Gabriele Neukam wrote:

> On that special day, Benjamin 'blindcoder' Schieder,
> (blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net) said...
>
>> OTOH, you'd also have to polymorph items flying through a polytrap.
>
> Not if they are *flying*. I think, traps should be triggered by contact
> (mainly weight).
>
> But kicking items onto a polymorph trap (if they don't get too far)
> could produce something interesting...

You kick the bear trap.
It slides onto the polymorph trap.
The bear trap changes into a polymorph trap!
The (new) polymorph trap changes the (old) polymorph trap into a bear trap!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Sean <sgegg@hotspammeallyouwantpop.com> wrote:
>BManx2000 wrote:
>> Here's an easy, non-scientific explanation: Polymorph traps magically
>> detect living creatures, and ignore non-living items.
>
>Not true. I've seen many a mummy, ghoul and vampire halfway through a
>magic whistle polypolka and all of them have been turned into something
>more useful. Golems too.

s/living creatures/life, unlife, and motivating enchantments/

Solved.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
illusion/kinetics controlling is love
 
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