On board sound vs discrete sound card add on.

[escribblings]

I have an Asus Z87 Sabertooth which comes with Realtek ALC1150 on board.

I currently use it with a cheapish pair of headphones and my old Cambridge Soundworks Digital Desktop Theatre 3500.

I have yet to set this up with a TOSLINK cable, so am currently limited to 4 point surround.

I plan to get the TOSLINK, and a newer pair of headphones too (not sure what to look at here), but am also wondering if I should look at moving to a discrete audio card.

I understand that there are many opinions on discrete vs newer onboard vs external amps/dacs etc...

I mostly play games, but do listen to some music - but am not an audiophile.

I am interested in the SoundBlaster Z range of cards to be fair, mainly on the gaming side.

Not really interested in Xonar, or any other offerings. On this my mind is made up - stick with on board or get a SBZ.

So - would I benefit from a Z? Or would I not notice any difference? I know this can be subjective.

Also, if I went for the Z - would I notice much difference between the Z and the ZxrR (I know the Zx is the same as the Z with *possibly* some higher spec components and an external volume control).

Many thanks for your time.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Unless you're an audiophile, you almost certainly wouldn't notice the difference. Don't bother.

 

[escribblings]

Unless you're an audiophile, you almost certainly wouldn't notice the difference. Don't bother.

I am presuming you mean between the on board and any discrete, and not between the Z and the ZxR.

Assuming I wouldn't notice a difference in the "quality" of the sound, do you think I would notice anything in the more gaming related aspects, such as the 3D surround or the Scout Mode.

Is there any "similar" software I could apply to the ALC1150 to get similar results?

Also, if I were to get a high quality pair of headphones, with a higher impedance, would that make more of a reason for upgrading than anything else?

Thank you for your time.

 

[RCguitarist]

Unless you are going to be doing professional audio production, don't waste your money. You won't notice the difference. I have high end studio headphones that I use and games and music sound really great through the on-board audio. I have a good point of reference as well because I am comparing it to my full-fledged professional music studio.

 

[derek2006]

I just made a thread that sums up my experiences with the X-Fi, Xonar, and SoundBlaster Z because I'm not sure which one I want to keep.

If you're interested here it is: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/thoughts-extremegamer-soundblaster-asus-xonar/2004518/results/

Summary:
If you want amazing headphone quality, get a Xonar.
If you want the best surround sound and gaming, get an old X-Fi
If you want the jack of all trades, master of none, get a SoundBlaster Z

The SoundBlaster Z does not have hardware acceleration or speaker fill.
-even onboard has speaker fill
The Xonar sucks at up-mixing 2-channel audio to surround sound.
The X-Fi has the lowest SNR of the 3 and the reduction in clarity is noticeably apparent.

You may have also heard that the Z has "4 cores", but every audio chip since the original soundblaster had 4 cores, and they're actually DSP's. If a game actually takes advantage of EAX5, you better have an unused cpu core free or you're gonna take a frame rate hit.

 

[escribblings]

I just made a thread that sums up my experiences with the X-Fi, Xonar, and SoundBlaster Z because I'm not sure which one I want to keep.

If you're interested here it is: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/thoughts-extremegamer-soundblaster-asus-xonar/2004518/results/

Summary:
If you want amazing headphone quality, get a Xonar.
If you want the best surround sound and gaming, get an old X-Fi
If you want the jack of all trades, master of none, get a SoundBlaster Z

The SoundBlaster Z does not have hardware acceleration or speaker fill.
-even onboard has speaker fill
The Xonar sucks at up-mixing 2-channel audio to surround sound.
The X-Fi has the lowest SNR of the 3 and the reduction in clarity is comparatively apparent.

You may have also heard that the Z has "4 cores", but every audio chip since the original soundblaster had 4 cores, but actually they're DSP's. If a game actually takes advantage of EAX5, you better have an unused cpu core free or you're gonna take a frame rate hit.

Thanks for that link - it has just confused me even more (except for the Xonar bit)

I am afraid I am one of these people with an irrational siding for particular manufacturers - and i am firmly in the Intel/Nvidia/CreAtive camp for my sins.

I will have to research the X-Fi's.

I wonder how the Cambridge Soundworks DTT3500 (that I got with a SBLive! years back, and it has seen me through 4 house moves so far!) compares to your Logitech z5300e.

 

[derek2006]

You can get an X-Fi Titanium PCIe (Supposedly New) for 45 bucks on ebay. I'm considering getting one for the future, since I now know I don't like any of the other sound card lines and one day PC's won't come with legacy PCI slots. I couldn't get enough PCI slots even on this build a year ago. I had to drop my PCI TV tuner for a USB one.

What'd be really nice is an Auzentech X-Fi. You get the X-Fi processor and the SNR of the SoundBlaster Z. Unfortunately they seem to have dropped off the face of the earth. Their website doesn't even load.

 

[derek2006]

Here is a comparison between the DTT3500 and Z5300e:

The Satellites have been upgraded to higher quality 3inch drivers. I'm not sure how much of a difference the S/N ratio makes in the real world, but on the z5300e it's high enough to discern the difference between different sound cards.

Since you're using a surround sound system, speaker fill might be important to you as well.


UPDATE:

I was telling my roomates about these sound cards, and they wouldn't believe me that they make any difference at all. That I was probably hearing things. Also one thinks the Xonar, based on reviews, was probably the best. So I installed all three of them at the same time and compared them one after another.

http://i.imgur.com/jSk3IIn.png

It was unanimous that the SoundBlaster Z was by far the best sounding on the 5.1 system, and that the Xonar, was pretty terrible. When comparing directly, you really notice that the Z is leagues ahead the X-Fi in quality. One such thing is the base being much more defined than the X-Fi and how the Xonar's base was pitiful.

I told them about how the X-Fi can fill the speakers and how the Z couldn't, and that it would maybe change their minds. Then I went to show them, but was reminded why I wanted to get rid of the X-Fi in the first place. Like many times over the years, the X-Fi CMSS-3D Stereo Envelopment slider will break and have no effect. The way of fixing it is reinstalling the drivers. So yea, SoundBlaster Z all the way.

 

[escribblings]

Here is a comparison between the DTT3500 and Z5300e:

The Satellites have been upgraded to higher quality 3inch drivers. I'm not sure how much of a difference the S/N ratio makes in the real world, but on the z5300e it's high enough to discern the difference between different sound cards.

Since you're using a surround sound system, speaker fill might be important to you as well.


UPDATE:

I was telling my roomates about these sound cards, and they wouldn't believe me that they make any difference at all. That I was probably hearing things. Also one thinks the Xonar, based on reviews, was probably the best. So I installed all three of them at the same time and compared them one after another.

http://i.imgur.com/jSk3IIn.png

It was unanimous that the SoundBlaster Z was by far the best sounding on the 5.1 system, and that the Xonar, was pretty terrible. When comparing directly, you really notice that the Z is leagues ahead the X-Fi in quality. One such thing is the base being much more defined than the X-Fi and how the Xonar's base was pitiful.

I told them about how the X-Fi can fill the speakers and how the Z couldn't, and that it would maybe change their minds. Then I went to show them, but was reminded why I wanted to get rid of the X-Fi in the first place. Like many times over the years, the X-Fi CMSS-3D Stereo Envelopment slider will break and have no effect. The way of fixing it is reinstalling the drivers. So yea, SoundBlaster Z all the way.

Than you for a very helpful reply. Your comparison with other cards has been very informative.

Can I just ask what on board audio you have, and how that compares with the Z.

Thanks.

 

[garryash]

Glad to see there are still other users of DTT3500 out there. Until recently I had tried the onboard sound on my Asrock H77M and although it was good it wasnt as good as when I used my Creative 5.1 gamer card. That packed up a month ago and I bought a creative OEM Z card (no microphone). The difference is amazing. I have tried various combinations of inputs from the card to the DTT3500 and find the best connections are to use the spdif out and the l-r front line out and l -r rear out. Then set DTT3500 to Fourpoint/optical/line in/digital in. I have in the past had problems getting enough volume to the 2 rear speakers. With it set up like this I can actually hear the 2 rears now. All my speakers are about 1.5 metres from where I usually sit, apart from the front right which is about .5 meter and I have altered to setting in the Z board control panel. I daresay that the DTT 3500 will pass away one day as it has been in constant use for about 12 years now. Best of luck. Any problems give me a shout!

 

[escribblings]

Glad to see there are still other users of DTT3500 out there. Until recently I had tried the onboard sound on my Asrock H77M and although it was good it wasnt as good as when I used my Creative 5.1 gamer card. That packed up a month ago and I bought a creative OEM Z card (no microphone). The difference is amazing. I have tried various combinations of inputs from the card to the DTT3500 and find the best connections are to use the spdif out and the l-r front line out and l -r rear out. Then set DTT3500 to Fourpoint/optical/line in/digital in. I have in the past had problems getting enough volume to the 2 rear speakers. With it set up like this I can actually hear the 2 rears now. All my speakers are about 1.5 metres from where I usually sit, apart from the front right which is about .5 meter and I have altered to setting in the Z board control panel. I daresay that the DTT 3500 will pass away one day as it has been in constant use for about 12 years now. Best of luck. Any problems give me a shout!

Glad I am not the only one still with the DTT.

Could you explain your reasoning behind dual input (analogue and digital) into the DTT - does the TOSLINK not give 5.1? *confused*

 

[garryash]

so am I. I tried various combinations of inputs and selections on DTT,, but found that this combination gave better overall sound as I like a good depth to my sound and it also gave the best output from the rear speakers as I have always had a problem getting enough volume out of them without losing some in the other speakers. If you get the Z and try it I'd be willing to have another go at altering the settings

 

[escribblings]

Cheers.

In the mean time, does anyone have any suggestions for games, films or music to test the onboard sound and the 5.1 speaker systems, something that will really push it.

I'm thinking a good, immersive game
At the moment the only games I have installed are Assassins Creed IV Black Flag, Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Blacklist, Batman Arkham Origins (not played yet!), Total War Rome II, Grid II and Elite: Dangerous (Alpha Tester).

What would be a good film to test it - I am thinking action movie or sci-fi might be the best genres. Also would it be better to play back from MP4 or DVD?

And what would some good music? I am thinking some rock and some classical to get the full range out of them.

The trouble is, while I like music and films - I am not an avid consumer. So I would like some advice as to some of the better items to use.

 

[garryash]

Deep Purple - Concert for group and orchestra , Black Sabbath - Paronoid , Emerson Lake and Palmer - Fanfare for the common man - Bach - Toccata £ fugue in D minor
Top Gun !! (the start)

 

[escribblings]

Cheers to everyone who replied.

I think I am going to get a Z or a Zx (as they are practically the same barring accessories). Can't stretch to the ZxR (and don't need the 1/4" jack and RCA connectors - although the second chip would be nice).

I will have to look into what happens if I decide to use the Audio Driver option on my GTX 760 with an HDMI-Optical adapter (currently using the DVI output for the display)

The reason I make this choice is because the DTT3500 only supports 4 channel analogue input (which it upmixes to 5.1) and the SPDIF TOSLINK output on the Z87 Sabertooth only supports 2 channel output. And the "graphics" audio is yet untested.

So the only way to get true 5.1 is either a new soundcard with digital out or a new receiver.

I may still get a new receiver in the coming months, but the sound card will be first, along with a pair of cans.

BTW - speaking of cans, help me choose?