One for the reloaders.

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

This is a question(s) regarding imminent case failure.

So, I have read the manuals and listened to many words of wisdom. As you
know, I have been reloading rifle ammunition for about a year now.
Reloading sessions have been successful, rewarding and an operation that
has so far proved to be both painless and safe.

However, last week-end at the BDS shoot, when a couple of competitors
asked if they could borrow my .270 Brno to enter the open sights
competition, I was much more aware of the fact that they were using ammo
built by me. It was a sobering thought and though it sounds dumb I
breathed a mental sigh of relief when the last shot was fired safely. I
rarely if ever think about it myself; but with someone else involved it
rather came to the fore.

At present I'm rotating about eighty .270 cases. Some are RWS but most
are Winchester. For foxes I use Speer's 90gr HP 'TNT' on top of 63gr of
Reloader 19. The second load, my hind load, is Hornady's 110 gr SPBT on
top of 57.2gr of Reloader 19. Both combinations deliver excellent
results.

As I said, I'm trying to rotate the stock of cases, but it's easy to
loose track of what was fired when. Common sense would dictate that, at
some point in the near future, one of these cases will say, that's it,
buddy, I've had enough. Adios!. So my question is, under such
circumstances what are the first signs that each of you would be looking
for in regard to imminent case failure?

I was recently told to watch out for, amongst other things, cracks in
the neck of the case. My informant, a reloader with many years of
experience, suggested it would be the most obvious indication and warned
me to check each case thoroughly before reloading.

Second question is, generally speaking, how many times do you reload a
case before binning it? Five times? 20 times? Do each of you have a
usage point for cases beyond which you will not go?

And finally, my third question is: does anyone know of a source for new
cases in the UK? I could always go out and buy 100 rounds of
commercially loaded ammunition to replace those that I'm using. But that
more or less defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.

--
Kim Sawyer
Sutherland
Scotland

 

[john]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Kim Sawyer <ksawyer@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in news:2004061020344279091
@zetnet.co.uk:

>what are the first signs that each of you would be looking
> for in regard to imminent case failure?

When you work any metal, you get metal fatigue and as a result the most
usual signs are as your friend suggested cracks.
If you only neck size your cases, then you would expect the neck of the
case to become brittle and crack before the web separates from the case
body.
Full length sizing can result in case failure anywhere.
I check my cases after firing and after re-sizing, any and I mean any
dents, cracks or suspect spots on the case and I’ll throw the case in
the bin, simple as that.
There are more scientific approaches, such as measuring the wall
thickness near the web but my advice is to scrutinise each case and any
you feel are suspect, throw and don’t think twice.

>
> I was recently told to watch out for, amongst other things, cracks in
> the neck of the case. My informant, a reloader with many years of
> experience, suggested it would be the most obvious indication and
warned
> me to check each case thoroughly before reloading.

Totally agree.


>
> Second question is, generally speaking, how many times do you reload a
> case before binning it? Five times? 20 times? Do each of you have a
> usage point for cases beyond which you will not go?

That depends upon a lot of things and it’s my observations that there
are not hard and fast rules. From what I have read, averagely 5-7 times
but I have loaded cases 10 or even 20 times before I have binned them. I
guess the main factor is brass quality and chamber dimensions.

>
> And finally, my third question is: does anyone know of a source for
new
> cases in the UK? I could always go out and buy 100 rounds of
> commercially loaded ammunition to replace those that I'm using. But
that
> more or less defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.
>

I know a chap who can order you some, if you want I’ll call him in the
morrow and find a price. My guess is that he orders them through
Sportsman.

John

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In message <2004061020344279091@zetnet.co.uk>, Kim Sawyer
<ksawyer@zetnet.co.uk> writes

[snip]

>So my question is, under such
>circumstances what are the first signs that each of you would be looking
>for in regard to imminent case failure?

The answer is "it depends". It depends on how 'hot' your loads are, how
much headspace your chamber has, and whether you full-length or neck
resize. And the quality of the brass. >Any< defect is grounds for
disposal.

>I was recently told to watch out for, amongst other things, cracks in
>the neck of the case. My informant, a reloader with many years of
>experience, suggested it would be the most obvious indication and warned
>me to check each case thoroughly before reloading.

Each time you full length resize, the case gets thinner just ahead of
the web and the neck work hardens. The web is the thick part of the
case wall just ahead of the cannelure. You should inspect each case
after resizing. Using a sharp pointed tool, feel the area inside the
case just ahead of the web. You can make such a tool by straightening
out a paper clip, use a file to make a point at one end, and then pliers
to turn the last 5mm through 90 degree so that you have a long wire with
a short pointed 'leg'. After resizing each case, insert the probe into
the bottom of the case, and draw the point over the inner surface of the
area ahead of the web rotating the case through 360 degrees. If you
feel a ridge there, discard the case because the head is about to
separate from the case body. (As an exercise, you can then hacksaw that
case along its length and visually inspect the ridge you felt.) Most
reloading manuals cover this danger under "incipient head separation".

Other signs to look for include enlarged primer pockets. If your
primers are going in with less resistance than they should, then the
primer pockets are getting large. (This presumes that you are using the
same type of brass and the same primers, because they vary.) Loose
primer pockets are also an indication of excessive pressures. Other
signs of pressure include excessively flattened primers (and flowing
into firing pin tunnels), resistance to the bolt opening, bright shiny
marks on the case head from the bolt face, excessive recoil. By the
time you see these signs your loads are already too powerful, but I
digress.

>Second question is, generally speaking, how many times do you reload a
>case before binning it? Five times? 20 times? Do each of you have a
>usage point for cases beyond which you will not go?

It depends. In the .303 with a full load and full-length resizing it
could be a few as twice: in a tight fitting chamber it could be 20 or
more. But in your Brno with sensible loads, somewhere between 5 and 15
I would expect.

>And finally, my third question is: does anyone know of a source for new
>cases in the UK?

I might be able to collect some today, email me next week. 🙂

-- Jonatahn

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759

 

[john]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Kim Sawyer <ksawyer@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in news:2004061020344279091
@zetnet.co.uk:

> And finally, my third question is: does anyone know of a source for new
> cases in the UK? I could always go out and buy 100 rounds of
> commercially loaded ammunition to replace those that I'm using. But that
> more or less defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.

Around £25 per 100.

I’ve no idea if this is expensive or not.

John

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

The message <v4F9z+AWpVyAFwcR@salvage.demon.co.uk>
from Jonathan Spencer <jms@NOTMEjonathan-spencer.co.uk> contains these words:


> The answer is "it depends". It depends on how 'hot' your loads are, how
> much headspace your chamber has, and whether you full-length or neck
> resize. And the quality of the brass. >Any< defect is grounds for
> disposal.

It may not denote a better quality of brass, but some cases are
certainly heavier than others when weighed. I bin any that look even
remotely suspicious.

> >I was recently told to watch out for, amongst other things, cracks in
> >the neck of the case. My informant, a reloader with many years of
> >experience, suggested it would be the most obvious indication and warned
> >me to check each case thoroughly before reloading.

> Each time you full length resize, the case gets thinner just ahead of
> the web and the neck work hardens. The web is the thick part of the
> case wall just ahead of the cannelure. You should inspect each case
> after resizing. Using a sharp pointed tool, feel the area inside the
> case just ahead of the web. You can make such a tool by straightening
> out a paper clip, use a file to make a point at one end, and then pliers
> to turn the last 5mm through 90 degree so that you have a long wire with
> a short pointed 'leg'. After resizing each case, insert the probe into
> the bottom of the case, and draw the point over the inner surface of the
> area ahead of the web rotating the case through 360 degrees. If you
> feel a ridge there, discard the case because the head is about to
> separate from the case body. (As an exercise, you can then hacksaw that
> case along its length and visually inspect the ridge you felt.) Most
> reloading manuals cover this danger under "incipient head separation".

Aye, I remember that particular check from the last time we talked. So
far I have discovered/felt nothing suspect. Sawing a case in half to
examine the interior would be interesting. I have a case already set
aside that's a suitable subject as the primer pocket is definitely
enlarged. Of course that may be all that is wrong with it.

> Other signs to look for include <snipped>

> >Second question is, generally speaking, how many times do you reload a
> >case before binning it? Five times? 20 times? Do each of you have a
> >usage point for cases beyond which you will not go?

> It depends. In the .303 with a full load and full-length resizing it
> could be a few as twice: in a tight fitting chamber it could be 20 or
> more. But in your Brno with sensible loads, somewhere between 5 and 15
> I would expect.

That's what I thought. Most of the cases I have are used exclusively in
the Mauser. I have set aside a box or so to be reused in the Brno and
never the twain should meet. I felt that after fire forming the case in
one particular firearm it was best to keep them matched, providing
continuity re headspace etc.

> >And finally, my third question is: does anyone know of a source for new
> >cases in the UK?

> I might be able to collect some today, email me next week. 🙂

That would be a great help, thanks, will do.

--
Kim Sawyer
Sutherland
Scotland

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

The message <Xns9504EBB7B5C8FOEcopyremovedheaders@130.133.1.4>
from John <Stalking*@britishlibrary.net> contains these words:


> When you work any metal, you get metal fatigue and as a result the most
> usual signs are as your friend suggested cracks.
> If you only neck size your cases, then you would expect the neck of the
> case to become brittle and crack before the web separates from the case
> body.
> Full length sizing can result in case failure anywhere.
> I check my cases after firing and after re-sizing, any and I mean any
> dents, cracks or suspect spots on the case and I’ll throw the case in
> the bin, simple as that.

When working the press I feel the greatest resistance when I'm resizing
the neck, which I imagine is to be expected. As I explain elsewhere, I'm
reusing the case in the same firearm so neck resizing only may be an
option.

> There are more scientific approaches, such as measuring the wall
> thickness near the web but my advice is to scrutinise each case and any
> you feel are suspect, throw and don’t think twice.

Let's leave scientific alone, eh? Of course, If it can be done with an
angle grinder then I'm your man. Otherwise, forget it. 🙂

> > Second question is, generally speaking, how many times do you reload a
> > case before binning it? Five times? 20 times? Do each of you have a
> > usage point for cases beyond which you will not go?

> That depends upon a lot of things and it’s my observations that there
> are not hard and fast rules. From what I have read, averagely 5-7 times
> but I have loaded cases 10 or even 20 times before I have binned them. I
> guess the main factor is brass quality and chamber dimensions.

Okee-dokee.

> I know a chap who can order you some, if you want I’ll call him in the
> morrow and find a price. My guess is that he orders them through
> Sportsman.

Thanks, but no need. I have received on offer of help off list that
should see me okay for the next few months.



--
Kim Sawyer
Sutherland
Scotland

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

The message <Xns95057FB8B314AOEcopyremovedheaders@130.133.1.4>
from John <Stalking*@britishlibrary.net> contains these words:

> Around £25 per 100.

> I’ve no idea if this is expensive or not.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

--
Kim Sawyer
Sutherland
Scotland

 

[Pete]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:34:42 +0100, Kim Sawyer <ksawyer@zetnet.co.uk>
wrote:
>snippety snip<
>
>At present I'm rotating about eighty .270 cases.


> So my question is, under such
>circumstances what are the first signs that each of you would be looking
>for in regard to imminent case failure?

In a shouldered case? Primer pockets opening up, any cracking around
the mouth, any web/head separation. For the latter straighten out a
paperclip. Now put a slight kink in it about 20% along its length. Now
stick the kinked end into your cases and slowly work it around the
internal circumference - you'll feel any cracking or stretching. This
works well on 303 Brit brass which stretches at the head. Unless
you're loading full power loads I'd expect 10 reloads. Inspect your
brass during case prep and after firing. If you neck size only, you
should anticipate having to f/l size once in a while.


>And finally, my third question is: does anyone know of a source for new
>cases in the UK?

Brass you can do mail order. Go to www.peterlawman.co.uk or Jackson
rifles and invest in Lapua brass.

>I could always go out and buy 100 rounds of
>commercially loaded ammunition to replace those that I'm using. But that
>more or less defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.

Quite so. I reload 303BRit but it's actually cheaper to buy milsurp -
while it lasts.


And on a different note, my FLA, Suffolk, is now insisting that all
sales of "Expanding missiles" (bullets, mind you not loaded rounds)
are booked out by the RFD and only sold on production of FAC with the
appropriate calibre and, I assume, the appropriate variation. I knew
of The Met insisting on this some years ago but how's things
elsewhere?
From Pete

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Being eaten by a crocodile is just like falling asleep in a blender"
Bart Simpson

 

[john]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Pete <pete.ansbro@virgin.net> wrote in
news:ig0kc05u63m77s1l56nl2g7ghqdga8omi7@4ax.com:
> And on a different note, my FLA, Suffolk, is now insisting that all
> sales of "Expanding missiles" (bullets, mind you not loaded rounds)
> are booked out by the RFD and only sold on production of FAC with the
> appropriate calibre and, I assume, the appropriate variation. I knew
> of The Met insisting on this some years ago but how's things
> elsewhere?

Same here for about 6 months.

John