Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (
More info?)
Bowmore <mapsdump@hotmail.com> writes:
> Suppose I control two Opalescence
>
> Opalescence
> {2}{W}{W}
> Enchantment
> Each other global enchantment is a creature with power and toughness
> each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment.
>
> Then in my main phase I play Humility
>
> Humility
> {2}{W}{W}
> Enchantment
> All creatures lose all abilities. Humility gains "All creatures are 1/1."
>
> (no-one interferes any further so it resolves and comes into play)
>
> What happens next?
Your opponent calls "Judge!". Your judge gives you a Game Loss for
"Creating an impossible game state". Why do you ask?
In all seriousness, your local Judge actually recalls the rules for
the Interaction of Continuous Effects:
,----[ Magic Comp. Rules <http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules> ]
| 418.5a The values of an object's characteristics are determined by
| starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in
| a series of layers in the following order: (1) copy effects (see
| rule 503, "Copying Objects"), (2) control-changing effects, (3)
| text-changing effects, (4) type-, subtype-, and supertype-changing
| effects, (5) all other continuous effects, except those that change
| power or toughness, and (6) power- or toughness-changing effects.
| Inside each layer, apply effects from characteristic-setting
| abilities first, then effects from all other abilities. For power-
| or toughness-changing effects, apply changes from counters after
| changes from characteristic-setting abilities. See also the rules
| for timestamp order and dependency (rules 418.5b-418.5g).
`----
Let's classify the effects that we're dealing with:
- Opalescence's ability is a type-changing effect, so it's done in
layer 4.
- Humility's ability is a "other except power/toughness", so it's done
in layer 5.
- The ability that Humility's ability grants to itself is a
power/toughness-changing effect, so it's done in layer 6.
So, let's look at how some permanents on the board currently look.
Any random natively-a-creature isn't affected by Opalescence, so it
just is an abilityless 1/1 as you'd expect.
Any random natively-a-global-enchantment is
- Changed into a creature
- Had its abilities removed
- Is now a 1/1.
Each of the two Opalescences is now also
- Changed into a creature
- Had its abilites removed (it doesn't matter that the
creature-setting ability is removed here, as it has already been
applied)
- Is now a 1/1.
The Humility is now
- Changed into a creature
- Had its normal-ability removed and "All creatures are now 1/1" added
- Is now a 1/1.
So, all creatures and global enchantments are blank 1/1 creatures,
except for Humility which has "All creatures are now 1/1". It's a
little unintuitive that Opalescence's creature-making ability and
Humility's remove-all-abilities ability still works even though the
ability isn't there anymore when you look at it, but you *did* ask
about the most complicated continuous-effects interaction that I can
think of. Trust me, this answer is simpler than the answer a couple
years ago that depended on the order that the cards came into play.
(And hopefully, you see why Humility's Oracle text is worded the funny
way that it is. It helps keep All Chaos from breaking loose.)
Please post again if you have any more questions.
--
Peter C.
DCI Local (Level 1) Judge
"... Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror,
and you would not have been informed."
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