[SOLVED] Opinion on upgrade, Ryzen 5 3600 or 5600 ?

farhanf44

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Hello, first of all, sorry if it'll be a long writing and full of inconsistency...

I was hesitating on some things when I look back on what is the best CPU I should choose for my MSI B350m Gaming Pro board.

I almost decided to use R5 5600 for my new build, but then again, after I looked at the reviews on YT... A question popped out, I know there are few people using 5000 series on B350m, but I never saw the actual result on my specific board. They are usually using better B350m than mine. I'm not someone well off, so I must choose things with most Value.

Never updated any bios,and the beta bios is a bit scary too for me, will my R3 2200G become completely unusable after I upgrade my bios? (Can I revert back the bios?)

My budget is around 140$, after sorting it out I think I have 2 options (feel free if there's any opinion on what I should buy) :
  1. Ryzen 5 5600
  2. Used Ryzen 3600 + DDR4 3200MHZ 16GB
What makes me thinking of these two are :
"Maybe R5 5600 can only work as much as Ryzen 5 3600 on my mobo"
It might be wrong, please correct it if it is. 🙏

My build right now :
Ryzen 3 2200G
MSI B350m Gaming Pro mobo
8GB 2660Mhz RAM (yeah, lacking in ram too)
MSI Mech 2x RX 6600 XT
Seasonic G550W
 

Aeacus

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will my R3 2200G become completely unusable after I upgrade my bios?
No.

Can I revert back the bios?
You could, but this i do not suggest. Since with BIOS rollback, you could brick your MoBo. Heck, you could even brick your MoBo with BIOS update, IF for whatever reason, BIOS update should be interrupted (e.g power loss).

"Maybe R5 5600 can only work as much as Ryzen 5 3600 on my mobo"
MoBo doesn't limit what CPU can do. Power delivery and thermals are the ones that limit what CPU can do.

Power delivery only matters if you OC your CPU. If you run stock clocks, power delivery doesn't matter either.

Thermals matter the most, since when CPU reaches 90+C, it will thermal throttle, reducing CPU frequency (and in turn, performance), while at 100C, PC will shut itself down, to keep CPU from burning up.

so I must choose things with most Value.
Value = performance to price ratio.

Comparison: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-3600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-5600/4040vsm1822932
Pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/9nm323,PgcG3C/

On average, R5 5600 is ~13% better than R5 3600. And by the current sale price from pcpp, R5 5600 is also ~20% more expensive than R5 3600. Thus, both CPUs have equal Value. But since R5 5600 is newer (2 years), it has better overall Value.
 

Aeacus

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will my R3 2200G become completely unusable after I upgrade my bios?
No.

Can I revert back the bios?
You could, but this i do not suggest. Since with BIOS rollback, you could brick your MoBo. Heck, you could even brick your MoBo with BIOS update, IF for whatever reason, BIOS update should be interrupted (e.g power loss).

"Maybe R5 5600 can only work as much as Ryzen 5 3600 on my mobo"
MoBo doesn't limit what CPU can do. Power delivery and thermals are the ones that limit what CPU can do.

Power delivery only matters if you OC your CPU. If you run stock clocks, power delivery doesn't matter either.

Thermals matter the most, since when CPU reaches 90+C, it will thermal throttle, reducing CPU frequency (and in turn, performance), while at 100C, PC will shut itself down, to keep CPU from burning up.

so I must choose things with most Value.
Value = performance to price ratio.

Comparison: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-3600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-5600/4040vsm1822932
Pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/9nm323,PgcG3C/

On average, R5 5600 is ~13% better than R5 3600. And by the current sale price from pcpp, R5 5600 is also ~20% more expensive than R5 3600. Thus, both CPUs have equal Value. But since R5 5600 is newer (2 years), it has better overall Value.
 

Kona45primo

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5600 & 3600mhz ram if you can source locally or return of it's not working.

I have a Asus prime B350 plus, went from 1600x to 3700x to 5700x. Every upgrade was a noticeable improvement in games paired with an overkill graphics card. 3200cl14 (gskill flare x) 2x8 to 3600cl16 4x8 a little, but the CPU upgrade was better.

No issues with thermals, no real difference between them at all. No difference in power consumption.

It was as simple as updating the bios for the CPU and going to amd for updated chipset drivers just for fun. I was out of date by 5-6 updates although that posed no issues updating the CPU or ram.

Max thermals with any benchmarking was around 65. Max when gaming around 55. Desktop work is 33-40C with a deepcool as500 (it's great, but tall)
 

farhanf44

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No.



You could, but this i do not suggest. Since with BIOS rollback, you could brick your MoBo. Heck, you could even brick your MoBo with BIOS update, IF for whatever reason, BIOS update should be interrupted (e.g power loss).



MoBo doesn't limit what CPU can do. Power delivery and thermals are the ones that limit what CPU can do.

Power delivery only matters if you OC your CPU. If you run stock clocks, power delivery doesn't matter either.

Thermals matter the most, since when CPU reaches 90+C, it will thermal throttle, reducing CPU frequency (and in turn, performance), while at 100C, PC will shut itself down, to keep CPU from burning up.



Value = performance to price ratio.

Comparison: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-3600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-5600/4040vsm1822932
Pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/9nm323,PgcG3C/

On average, R5 5600 is ~13% better than R5 3600. And by the current sale price from pcpp, R5 5600 is also ~20% more expensive than R5 3600. Thus, both CPUs have equal Value. But since R5 5600 is newer (2 years), it has better overall Value.
Ohh thank you very much for the confirmation, and advice. I'd go for 5600 then, I'd just add more RAM later when I have more fund.
 
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farhanf44

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5600 & 3600mhz ram if you can source locally or return of it's not working.

I have a Asus prime B350 plus, went from 1600x to 3700x to 5700x. Every upgrade was a noticeable improvement in games paired with an overkill graphics card. 3200cl14 (gskill flare x) 2x8 to 3600cl16 4x8 a little, but the CPU upgrade was better.

No issues with thermals, no real difference between them at all. No difference in power consumption.

It was as simple as updating the bios for the CPU and going to amd for updated chipset drivers just for fun. I was out of date by 5-6 updates although that posed no issues updating the CPU or ram.

Max thermals with any benchmarking was around 65. Max when gaming around 55. Desktop work is 33-40C with a deepcool as500 (it's great, but tall)
Okaay, thank you, I'd go with that. But I'm not sure if I can put 3600 on my mobo, I think I saw people saying 3200 is the maximum and if I want more I should OC it a bit.
 

Kona45primo

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It's really cpu dependent. Chances are you would be able to run 3600mhz ram on a 5600. But it's one of those things it might not work.

The issue is back when these motherboards were made the 1XXX series AMD CPU's head trouble running above 2400mhz. Some 3200kits worked but it was rare. 3600mhz was rare, expensive and rarely tested.

When I had a 1600x CPU I upgraded the ram to 3200 cl14. It ran ok, no errors but was not stable in some games. Upgraded the CPU to a 3700x and it was perfect. When I upgraded to the 5700x I really rolled the dice on a used set of 4 sticks 3600mhz CL 16-16-16 B-die and it worked right out of the gate. What I'm saying is it's less motherboard limiting the ram, more CPU.

If you don't want to go beyond 3200 Gskill Flare X CL14 is pretty darn good and fast for a 3200 kit. If you want to try and overclock it's pretty good for that too.

If you can source it locally and have the ability to return/exchange anything that doesn't work you'll probably be able to get it working at 3600... But it's not critical.
 

Aeacus

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But I'm not sure if I can put 3600 on my mobo, I think I saw people saying 3200 is the maximum and if I want more I should OC it a bit.
It's really cpu dependent.
Fact is, that OP's MoBo supports RAM speeds up to 3200 Mhz,
specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B350M-GAMING-PRO/Specification

So, the talk of "RAM frequency is dependent on CPU" is BS, IF MoBo does not support that level of RAM frequency, which OP's MoBo does not.

If you can source it locally and have the ability to return/exchange anything that doesn't work you'll probably be able to get it working at 3600... But it's not critical.
This is bad advice, since OP isn't never going to get the RAM running at 3600 Mhz on their MoBo. Besides being misleading, it is also waste of money for OP. :non:
So, next time, check what hardware OP has, before making your suggestions.
 

Kona45primo

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Your hearts in the right place but your logic is flawed.


Running 4 sticks of 3600mhz just fine even though the specs say otherwise.

Regardless I agree with you it's better to go with 3200mhz. But 3600 is not impossible. It is actually quite common as the motherboard is not the limiting factor. The CPU memory controller is usually the deciding factor assuming the bios allows for anything beyond 3200.
 
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Aeacus

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assuming the bios allows for anything beyond 3200.
Are you willing to reimburse OP with your money, IF your assumption doesn't hold true? :unsure:

Running 4 sticks of 3600mhz just fine even though the specs say otherwise.
Regardless what the maximum RAM frequency is, all RAM still will work at JEDEC speeds. So yes, you can run 3600 Mhz rated kit, but at 2133/2400/2667/3200 Mhz. But buying 3600 Mhz RAM kit is waste of money. Better get the kit that is supported by MoBo.
 

Kona45primo

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My quote from above
"If you can source it locally and have the ability to return/exchange anything that doesn't work you'll probably be able to get it working at 3600... But it's not critical."
 
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Aeacus

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My quote from above
"If you can source it locally and have the ability to return/exchange anything that doesn't work you'll probably be able to get it working at 3600... But it's not critical."
So, you give OP advice based on assumptions and when push comes to shove, you don't back up your claims with your wallet. Figured as much.

Like i said, bad advice.
 
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farhanf44

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Your hearts in the right place but your logic is flawed.


Running 4 sticks of 3600mhz just fine even though the specs say otherwise.

Regardless I agree with you it's better to go with 3200mhz. But 3600 is not impossible. It is actually quite common as the motherboard is not the limiting factor. The CPU memory controller is usually the deciding factor assuming the bios allows for anything beyond 3200.
Okaay, but I'm not sure I want 3600mhz on my board, seems being too forceful.. Thanks for the advice tho
 

farhanf44

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Are you willing to reimburse OP with your money, IF your assumption doesn't hold true? :unsure:



Regardless what the maximum RAM frequency is, all RAM still will work at JEDEC speeds. So yes, you can run 3600 Mhz rated kit, but at 2133/2400/2667/3200 Mhz. But buying 3600 Mhz RAM kit is waste of money. Better get the kit that is supported by MoBo.
Btw I've upgraded my bios successfully 😬, And it's nice to know my R3 2200G is still usable in my current bios.

Another Question... Will my bios reset IF I remove CMOS? Thank you in advance
 
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farhanf44

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XD I've successfully installed Ryzen 5 5600 on my PC. Tested it with RDR 2 almost max setting, got 75 fps. seems like my memory capped it at that number since I only have 8GB RAM. Going at absolute limit setting makes it stutter.
 
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...
Another Question... Will my bios reset IF I remove CMOS? Thank you in advance
I'm sure you mean reset CMOS.

No, resetting CMOS does not change the BIOS. It only changes settings it uses for initializing system hardware to safe defaults. It's always a good idea to reset CMOS whenever you change CPU or memory and after updating BIOS. It's also a good idea to reset it before starting hardware troubleshooting should you have any unexpected problems like crash to desktop or a system crash and restart.

Also, definitely enable XMP for 3600 DDR4. It's highly likely it will run perfectly well if it's a one or two-stick kit. 5000 (and 3000) series CPU's have a greatly improved memory controller over the one in your 2200g. 3600 is the sweet spot with a lot of people reporting success even on B350 boards. The motherboard has far less impact on RAM clock speed unless it's a 4 stick kit.

You have to remember that B350 boards came out for 1st gen which were rated only to 2666 RAM speed, then for 2nd gen rated for only 2933. By the time 3rd gen (3000 series CPU's) came our with a solid 3200 rating there was little incentive to test a bunch of kits for testing more kits since B450 boards were out. It's FAR more important to look at AMD's memory compatibility listing than the motherboard's. I'd definitely suggest going for a 3600 two-stick kit since it probably won't be much more expensive anyway.

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-compatible-memory
 
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farhanf44

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I'm sure you mean reset CMOS.

No, resetting CMOS does not change the BIOS. It only changes settings it uses for initializing system hardware to safe defaults. It's always a good idea to reset CMOS whenever you change CPU or memory and after updating BIOS. It's also a good idea to reset it before starting hardware troubleshooting should you have any unexpected problems like crash to desktop or a system crash and restart.

Also, definitely enable XMP for 3600 DDR4. It's highly likely it will run perfectly well if it's a one or two-stick kit. 5000 (and 3000) series CPU's have a greatly improved memory controller over the one in your 2200g. 3600 is the sweet spot with a lot of people reporting success even on B350 boards. The motherboard has far less impact on RAM clock speed unless it's a 4 stick kit.

You have to remember that B350 boards came out for 1st gen which were rated only to 2666 RAM speed, then for 2nd gen rated for only 2933. By the time 3rd gen (3000 series CPU's) came our with a solid 3200 rating there was little incentive to test a bunch of kits for testing more kits since B450 boards were out. It's FAR more important to look at AMD's memory compatibility listing than the motherboard's. I'd definitely suggest going for a 3600 two-stick kit since it probably won't be much more expensive anyway.

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-compatible-memory
Wow thank you so much for those info, I'd look more into it. I'm glad I won't lose my current bios over resetting Cmos. 😄🙏
 

logainofhades

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Zen 3, while still sensitive to ram speeds, is not quite as affected as older Zen's are. Less latency, due to the rework AMD did, for Zen 3, with regards to cache, and how the cores access it. Between that and other IPC improvements, you should see quite a bit of a performance increase.
 

logainofhades

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Your hearts in the right place but your logic is flawed.


Running 4 sticks of 3600mhz just fine even though the specs say otherwise.

Regardless I agree with you it's better to go with 3200mhz. But 3600 is not impossible. It is actually quite common as the motherboard is not the limiting factor. The CPU memory controller is usually the deciding factor assuming the bios allows for anything beyond 3200.
You got lucky. Most 300 and 400 series boards didn't do well with ram beyond 3200. The motherboard very much can be the limiting factor. Hence why AMD had to do so many bios updates, for ram compatibility, and stability. On a zen 3 chip, like the 5600, 3200 vs 3600 is minor, and wouldn't be noticeable in anything but a benchmark. Also, the OP's motherboard doesn't support it. Not a single 3600 kit is on the QVL list.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B350M-GAMING-PRO/support#mem
 
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Aeacus

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Also, definitely enable XMP for 3600 DDR4. It's highly likely it will run perfectly well if it's a one or two-stick kit.

I'd definitely suggest going for a 3600 two-stick kit since it probably won't be much more expensive anyway.
How come you're the 2nd one in this topic, who failed to see that OP MoBo does not support 3600 Mhz RAM? :unsure: Yet, you suggest one for OP.

And just because CPU is capable of RAM speeds up to 4133/5000 Mhz DDR4, doesn't mean MoBo is able to provide that.
 
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How come you're the 2nd one in this topic, who failed to see that OP MoBo does not support 3600 Mhz RAM? :unsure: Yet, you suggest one for OP.

And just because CPU is capable of RAM speeds up to 4133/5000 Mhz DDR4, doesn't mean MoBo is able to provide that.
Precisely the reasons I said: it will highly likely work just fine because his processor's MMU quality is what governs success or failure. You can't expect motherboard mfr's to constantly test new ram kits for a board that's been obsoleted in their model line for a long time so that's irrelevant. Pay attention to AMD's compatibility listings first and preferentially.

But what's even more relevant is there is no AM4 processor that "supports" 3600 RAM because none are rated above 3200 and therefore there can be no AM4 motherboard that "supports" even 3600 except as an overclock. It's always important to keep in mind that with any overclocking there are no guarantees but in my and many others' experience there is every reason to give it a try...and very little reason not to.
 
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Aeacus

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Precisely the reasons I said: it will highly likely work just fine because of his processor's MMU quality as that is what governs success or failure. You can't expect motherboard mfr's to constantly test new ram kits for a model that's been obsoleted in their model line for a long time so that's irrelevant. Pay attention to AMD's compatibility listings first and preferentially.
"Highly likely" is just your assumption without proof. What you currently have, is only your word. I don't see any White Papers or other evidence to back up your words. Should OP or anyone, take your gospel at face value?

It's easy for MoBo manufacturers to take old MoBo and re-validate it with newer hardware. Manufacturers keep plenty of stock, even for old hardware, for testing and RMA purposes. And B350 chipset isn't nowhere obsolete, as you claim it to be. Chipset still receives support, while getting BIOS updates. Latest BIOS released for OP MoBo was 7 months ago, despite MoBo being released back in 2017.

What is irrelevant, are hollow claims without proof.
 
"Highly likely" is just your assumption without proof. What you currently have, is only your word. I don't see any White Papers or other evidence to back up your words. Should OP or anyone, take your gospel at face value?

It's easy for MoBo manufacturers to take old MoBo and re-validate it with newer hardware. Manufacturers keep plenty of stock, even for old hardware, for testing and RMA purposes. And B350 chipset isn't nowhere obsolete, as you claim it to be. Chipset still receives support, while getting BIOS updates. Latest BIOS released for OP MoBo was 7 months ago, despite MoBo being released back in 2017.

What is irrelevant, are hollow claims without proof.
"Highly likely" is as equally valid as your assumption it flat out won't...and my assumption is backed by first my experiences and those of many others with similar successes. In fact, not many failures excepting those with a BIOS that doesn't use the XMP voltage and needs manual entry first.

"Supporting" means: failure creates a potential RMA condition, i.e., is guaranteed. Can you understand: there ARE NO AM4 MOTHERBOARDS THAT SUPPORT 3600 RAM! So by YOUR logic...NO ONE should try it! YES it's overclocking, but there is ample evidence supporting just how successful it can be with 3000 and 5000 CPU's. I am NOT saying it's any more likely to be successful than it is on any other board where 3600 IS NOT SUPPORTED...which is EVERY AM4 MOTHERBOARD 300, 400 or 500 series.

BTW: When you see in motherboard spec lists the "supported" memory clocks, every clock above 3200 includes a parenthetical (OC)...3200/3400(OC)/3600(OC). That means it's an overclock which is not guaranteed; it's not really supported but marketing wants it included because it sells.

Being obsolete doesn't mean it won't get a BIOS update, it means it's not in production and won't get any more engineering attention than necessary, mainly to keep the folks in legal happy. Companies aren't in the business of doing neat things to benefit old, out of production, product to cannibalize sales of new product unless there are extenuating circumstances.

White papers on overclocking...that's funny. Made me laugh, it did.
 
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Aeacus

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as your assumption
I don't assume. I read what MSI has stated in their MoBo specs sheet. In nowhere i can read that "3600 Mhz or higher frequency RAM, would work" within the MSI specs sheet.

What MSI has stated, is that, on their MoBo, 1866, 2133 and 2400 Mhz speeds are supported by default (JEDEC speeds). While 2667, 2933 and 3200 Mhz can be achieved by RAM OC. I don't see 3600 Mhz listed there, nor has MSI tested any 3600 Mhz kits (memory QVL).

It is misleading to say to OP: "buy 3600 Mhz kit, it costs only a little more, but enable XMP and highly likely, your RAM runs 3600 Mhz.".

While in reality, following should be said: "There is a very slim chance that your MoBo is able to run RAM at 3600 Mhz, since MoBo doesn't support that high speeds of a RAM. Better not waste your money on 3600 Mhz kit, instead get the 3200 Mhz kit, which is highest supported by your MoBo. And while 3200 Mhz speed is RAM OC, it is highly likely that it will work at 3200 Mhz, since 3200 Mhz speed is supported by MoBo.".

Btw, you shouting left and right doesn't make your words any more credible. On the contrary, you'll loosing what little credibility you had left, with your outburst and shouts.
 
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