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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Greetings all. I have been playing NH for maybe 14 years, although
rarely in the last 3 or 4 years and so there are all sorts of nuances
(and new challenges) in 3.4.3 which are making life interesting.

Of course, I've ascended before, so I'm now being choosy: I am trying
to ascend a Tourist. Many many failures so far.

So what is the general opinion on Tourists? How many of you have
ascended a T, and how many of you have sworn off them altogether (and
why so)?

I am playing on nethack.alt.org so my progress (or lack of same) will
be there for all to see - darcy19john-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu

--

JPD


SGFN
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

JPD wrote:
> So what is the general opinion on Tourists? How many of you
> have ascended a T, and how many of you have sworn off them
> altogether (and why so)?

Of my three ascensions, one was a tourist.

Basically they have a very hard early game, but are very powerful in
the late game. They are good fighters, good spellcasters and their
Quest artifact is awesome.

good luck!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"JPD" <john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4227b526.67113125@news.bigpond.com...
> Greetings all. I have been playing NH for maybe 14 years, although
> rarely in the last 3 or 4 years and so there are all sorts of nuances
> (and new challenges) in 3.4.3 which are making life interesting.
>
> Of course, I've ascended before, so I'm now being choosy: I am trying
> to ascend a Tourist. Many many failures so far.
>
> So what is the general opinion on Tourists? How many of you have
> ascended a T, and how many of you have sworn off them altogether (and
> why so)?
>
> I am playing on nethack.alt.org so my progress (or lack of same) will
> be there for all to see - darcy19john-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu
>
I've Ascended T's including a wishless one, so i'll provide some quick
advice.

Starting, you should act like a protection racketeer... I don't actually
suggest the protection racket tho. You might poke your nose into the mines
if ML1 is lit to try to get some armor/daggers. Just use your starting pet
to kill for you, throw darts at floating eyes... if kitty/doggie gets frozen
you'll be in trouble.

Sokoban is a good primary destination, giving either reflection and more Str
or Str and carrying capacity. You'll gain a level or two along the way,
leaving your pet one level behind while pushing boulders. Make sure to let
your pet into the zoo ahead of you. If you're lucky, you'll have an AC of
about 3 or better and a unihorn before you get the prize.

Minetown is next, you'll probably still have enough gold for a donation by
the time you get there. If you've been careful about your pet you should be
able to get some decent armor from the minetown watch... if you're lucky,
you'll get a silver saber from the watch captain.

The mid game is easier once you have a decent weapon, Vorpy is the crowning
gift so you might pester The Lady in hopes of getting crowned (I know,
Crowning Bad) You also could sac in hopes of getting a brand or Magicbane.
With a good artifact and a silver saber, you should work on weapon skills
and then two-weapon. Both of my T ascensions were two weapon users, one
with Vorpy and a saber and the other with MB and a saber and Vorpy for
Jabberwocks.

A Tourist can be an effective combat wombat once weapon/two-weapon are at
skilled. Also, bear in mind that the T quest endlevel has shops, so gold is
useful there.

Wands are MUCH more useful to a tourist than most roles after the quest, the
PYEC is one of the best quest artifacts (only the MKoT, the Eye and the Eyes
are better IMHO) I'd also say that the only time it might be better in the
BoH is when Rodney is present. (not just awake, actually present to possibly
steal it.) That said, don't make it your only source of MR.

I hope this helps
Danny
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

JPD wrote:
> Greetings all. I have been playing NH for maybe 14 years, although
> rarely in the last 3 or 4 years and so there are all sorts of nuances
> (and new challenges) in 3.4.3 which are making life interesting.
>
> Of course, I've ascended before, so I'm now being choosy: I am
trying
> to ascend a Tourist. Many many failures so far.
>
> So what is the general opinion on Tourists? How many of you have
> ascended a T, and how many of you have sworn off them altogether (and
> why so)?

Tourists are a bit challenging, since they start out with ac 10 and low
strength. You're likely to be heavily dependant on your pet at first.
I recommend doing the protection racket, remaining clvl 1 until you can
buy protection in minetown. Make your pet do nearly all the killing.
In the very beginning I recommend blinding the first several monsters
with the expensive camera so your pet can gain a few levels without
such a risk of dying. After that he should be able to deal with all
the monsters you will encounter as long as your clvl remains low.

Tourists generally start out with a good supply of food, which means
you can use prayer to get more maxhp rather than to avoid starving. I
am always on the lookout for kobold zombies (1 xp) and gnome zombies (8
xp) so that I can gain alignment points without gaining clvl.
Non-coaligned always-hostile monsters give you at least 5 alignment
points. Lawful and chaotic players have it easier in this regard,
since they can kill newts and lichens for alignment, and these are more
commonly found. If you pray while in major trouble with zero
alignment, the chance that you're trouble will be fixed is only 50%.
I've seen prayer timeouts well over 1000 moves, so I normally don't
attempt prayer until I get my alignment above zero so the aid will be
guaranteed. When my maxhp is less than 16 I will let a relatively
harmless monster attack me until my hp are less than 6, then I pray for
healing. This adds 1-5 to your maxhp. Once I'm at 16 or above I quaff
my extra healing potions, blessing them if possible. With 14 alignment
you can pray when not in trouble and have a 1/3 chance of +5 maxhp, 1/3
chance blessed weapon, and 1/3 chance nothing, so eventually you can
have some respectable maxhp and still be clvl 1.

I don't hit the mines until I have ac, maxhp, items, pets, and
intrinsics that I feel comfortable with. In the meantime I explore the
levels completely in search of items, zombies, and additional pets. I
don't loot containers until I have at least 15 hp. I head for Sokoban
in order to get more food and exercise strength. You have to be
careful to take any negative luck due to Sokoban guilt into account,
because praying before the negative luck has timed out will anger your
deity. I will generally complete Sokoban while at clvl 1 only if I
have telepathy and multiple level 9 pets, because while the randomly
generated monsters will be low level, there are guaranteed to be 2
giant mimics on the level. Usually I just make a token appearance at
the top to get the low level monsters generated, then head back out.
How do I know that my pets are level 9? I count their kills. They
gain at least 1 maxhp per kill and a large dog will grow to a natural
maximum of 72 hp.

On the way back up the dungeon I clone credit in any shops and use my
pets to get the gold back. When I enter the mines I generally have ac
-3, 35 maxhp, poison resistance, telepathy, and 2-4 pets. The more
pets you have the better, since it takes less time then to wait for a
pet to enter a square you're considering moving to. It is also very
likely that at least one pet will fall through a trapdoor or be
teleported to another level, so it's reassuring to have others to fall
back on. More pets also means that you're more likely to have a
non-eating pet available to protect you.

Once at minetown I take my pets around to kill all the gnomes and
dwarfs. I try to lock the watch captain in a room to keep him away
from the pets, or failing that I blind him with the camera to increase
my pets' chances against him. Blinding him makes him angry, so be
prepared to take a few hits.

After getting the gold from the minetown shops I buy as much protection
as possible from the priest. Naked ac 1 will cost no more than zk3200,
and getting more protection than that is a big gamble. I recently got
to only naked ac -1 with zk24000. Another time I got to ac -3 with
about zk9000. Once you've got your protection it's time to level up.
Opinion is divided on whether you should go to safer levels in order to
do this. Everyone else seems to think you should, while I maintain
that minetown and the levels below are as good a place as any to gain
experience. After all, I can probably survive indefinitely in minetown
with my pets to protect me, and there are always an abundance of
monsters I am perfectly capable of killing. I attack slow monsters
with a dagger to increase the skill; otherwise I use the camera and +2
darts. Once I gain a few levels, I head down to mine's end for the
luckstone, then find a co-aligned altar and perform as many hekatombs
as it takes to get Magicbane. I like to two-weapon +7 Magicbane and a
+7 silver sabre. I also collect as many daggers as possible so that I
can enchant some up to +9/10.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Daniel Morris" <puterdan@optonline.net> was moved to say:

>Starting, you should act like a protection racketeer... I don't actually
>suggest the protection racket tho. You might poke your nose into the mines
>if ML1 is lit to try to get some armor/daggers. Just use your starting pet
>to kill for you, throw darts at floating eyes...

Thanks for all the advice.

As it happens, I have a game with possibilities in progress now. I
chose to take the dungeon stairs rather than the mines stairs, there
having been no shops on 2 or 3. Correct decision. L4, ransacked a
10x6 scroll shop, thankyou very much, with one kitty inside doing the
looting and one big cat outside doing the protection. Both pets still
with me now, a chaotic altar on level 2 for BUC identification, and
now I am doing armour/weapon scavenging in the mines (a bit at a time,
I still am not very strong for hauling big loads). No elven armour
yet, so this phase of the operation will continue for a while.

I've had to pray once for survival, and with esp from a floating eye
corpse I've exhausted my camera blinding myself to survey the monster
coverage of those first two mines levels - need a blindfold or towel
urgently.

By the way, in due course one of you will find bones left by me in
earlier games. How will you know it is Darcy the Tourist? - by the
pet names. I won't give it away now, but be on the lookout for cats
and dogs with more than just Tom or Rover for a handle :)

--

JPD


SGFN
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) was moved to say:

>As it happens, I have a game with possibilities in progress now.

Update: On the second level of the mines, I fell through a trapdoor
straight into the temple. Soldier ants started pouring through the
door - not good. A recently acquired wand of digging now became my
best friend, engraving Elbereth saved my life about five times in the
next hundred or so turns. Read a scroll of taming on two of the
soldier ants, and read a scroll of teleportation to get out of that
temple. Unfortunately, I was now on the side away from the stairs, so
I had to fight back across, with the help of the soldier ants when
they caught up with me. Near the down stairs, I found the bones hoard
of IanKeith, so if he is reading, thanks :) I made it upstairs, I
used my scroll of remove curse to make Ian's blindfold safe, and now I
have my two cats back at my side as I return to my dlvl2 base camp to
assess the situation.

Whew :)

--

JPD


SGFN
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Philip Bollom wrote:
>
> > Tourists are a bit challenging, since they start out with ac 10 and
> > low strength.
>
> I consider starting at low strength a good thing.
>
> After all, strength is the stat that can be most easily exercised,
and
> starting with a low strength means that other stats, which cannot be
(so
> easily) increased will start out higher.

True, but there's not much use for 18 charisma until you start
encountering foocubi.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) writes:

> Greetings all. I have been playing NH for maybe 14 years, although
> rarely in the last 3 or 4 years and so there are all sorts of nuances
> (and new challenges) in 3.4.3 which are making life interesting.
>
> Of course, I've ascended before, so I'm now being choosy: I am trying
> to ascend a Tourist. Many many failures so far.
>
> So what is the general opinion on Tourists?

Great class. A little challenging at the beginning, but
the wealth of food allows to take a careful, hide-behind-pet
way of starting. It also allows for some more tedious
shop-lifting, and hence in principle for the protection dive.
A short visit to the mines can often yield some quite nice
AC, but don't spend too much time there, poison traps and
gnome gangs can be dangerous. Get expert in dagger ASAP,
and try to get a nice dagger collection. I actually like
to Name a runed dagger to get Sting for tourists. [An alternate
strategy is to get only skilled in dagger, and wait for the
worm tooth, then upgrade it to chrysknife and become expert
in knife. Bonus style points for using two chrysknifes with
#twoweapon.] Main priorities are pet survival (so descent
slowly), AC, decent weapon, dagger stacks, poison resistance,
Strength (push those boulders), altar, identify healing and
speed/energy potions. It's often rewarding to throw daggers
even at weaklish opponents, since they may carry !o(e/f)h, or
have a nasty wand.

Best,
Jakob
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Philip Bollom wrote:

> Tourists are a bit challenging, since they start out with ac 10 and
> low strength.

I consider starting at low strength a good thing.

After all, strength is the stat that can be most easily exercised, and
starting with a low strength means that other stats, which cannot be (so
easily) increased will start out higher.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) was moved to say:

>john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) was moved to say:
>
>>As it happens, I have a game with possibilities in progress now.
>
>Update: ... and now I
>have my two cats back at my side as I return to my dlvl2 base camp to
>assess the situation.

Update 2: Over 10000 turns now, clvl 8 and pets still alive.
Minetown (which was the College Town layout and was IanKeith's bones)
is empty except for my two pet soldier ants, whom I locked in one of
the 2x2 rooms, and the priest of the Lawful temple (to whom I made no
attempt to chat).

I need to gain strength, and a boulder run is available on dlvl3.
Another temple seems to be on dlvl4 (I have dived as far as dlvl7,
where the Oracle is located) and so I want to move my current hoard
down to there, but this will be laborious because there is already a
serious amount of it. Amazingly, it still fits inside a single large
box.

AC when fully dressed is -1; maxHP are 46 if memory serves (I've saved
the game before writing this); I have a short broadsword which came to
me already blessed and which I read a blessed scroll of enchant weapon
over (it glowed only briefly - probably no more than +2 now) and still
have 23 of my +2 darts. No wands.

Game resumes on Sunday.

--

JPD


SGFN
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

begin quoting Philip Bollom <philip_bollom@yahoo.com>:
>Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>>I consider starting at low strength a good thing.
>>After all, strength is the stat that can be most easily exercised, and
>>starting with a low strength means that other stats, which cannot be (so
>>easily) increased will start out higher.
[mangled quoting corrected]
>True, but there's not much use for 18 charisma until you start
>encountering foocubi.

It makes robbing shops faster, which doesn't hurt...
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Aponoia, March.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Philip Bollom wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>> I consider starting at low strength a good thing.

> True, but there's not much use for 18 charisma until you start
> encountering foocubi.

Indeed. But having them raise your level from 12 to 14 is *so* much more
useful than having them raise it from 22 to 24.

The earlier in the game, the more useful a level raise is. Once you're
above level 10, that is - otherwise, it's just gaining levels too fast
without improving your equipment...

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) was moved to say:

>Game resumes on Sunday.

Update 3: 15000+ turns. Now I know what "You feel a wave of psychic
energy" means ... d'oh.

Both of my faithful cats are now dead, and I survived a nasty scare on
level 10 of the mines when a carnivorous ape had me on one side and a
tiger on the other. Needless to say, there are no scrolls of
teleportation left (not that I would know what one of those looks like
after the mind flayer).

I'm not strong enough to dive any further into the dungeon. Time for
Sokoban, I guess. AC -4, maxHP 78, Experience level 9, STR still only
12 (my biggest problem, I suspect).

--

JPD


SGFN
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I'm dead. And nothing to show for it - I walked into a floating eye
up on dlvl 2 (on a mission to clean up all the remaining gold). Was
already hungry, and was frozen by the floating eye's gaze AND fainting
when a nymph came along to progressively steal everything and undress
me. Then a pitiful little kobold zombie slapped me around.

Down in the temple in minetown I had about 300 weapons and 150 pieces
of armour, along with other assorted booty. I had been down to mine's
end and to dlvl 11 but not to Sokoban (which would have been my next
item of business after organising my hoard). What a waste.

416 creatures vanquished.

----------
/ \
/ REST \
/ IN \
/ PEACE \
/ \
| darcy19john |
| 0 Au |
| killed by a |
| kobold zombie, |
| while helpless |
| |
| 2005 |
*| * * * | *
_________)/\\_//(\/(/\)/\//\/|_)_______


Aloha darcy19john the Tourist...

You died in The Dungeons of Doom on dungeon level 2 with 22806 points,
and 0 pieces of gold, after 17776 moves.
You were level 10 with a maximum of 83 hit points when you died.

--

JPD


SGFN
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

JPD wrote:

> I'm dead. And nothing to show for it - I walked into a floating eye
> up on dlvl 2 (on a mission to clean up all the remaining gold).

No sympathies here. DON'T use the arrow keys to move on already explored
levels: use g-direction or G-direction or CTRL-direction. If you do, you
will automatically stop moving if something interesting happens (like
making the acquiantance of a floating eye).

> 416 creatures vanquished.
> You died in The Dungeons of Doom on dungeon level 2 with 22806 points,
> and 0 pieces of gold, after 17776 moves.

Luckily, you didn't waste much time on this game. 🙂

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.