Question Overclocking 3700x

Apr 18, 2020
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Hey fellas I'm new to pc building and built a pc with a 3700x and I would like to learn how to overclock my CPU but on AMD it seems a bit more complicated. I turned on PBO advanced on my MSI x570 unify board, upped the core max boost at first to 200 then 400. As is in CB20 single core boost touches 4450 and for about 70% of the run stays at 4425. I'm trying to see if my chip will overclock all core to 4.4 though but need some help anyone out there willing to help me out? Temperatures are great the cpu rarely touches 60 in aida 64 it topped at 66c with everything checked off CPU, FPU, and the cache I think is what im suppose to check off but in all honesty i have no clue.

MSI x570 unify motherboard
3700x
850 corsair PSU
trident z neo 16g 3600mhz
360 AIO artic freeze 2
 

Phaaze88

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Leave the all core overclock stuff alone.
No one knows what's actually safe for these chips - and what's actually safe varies per chip.
You've got a good cooler on the cpu - there's nothing else you need to do there.

What was once considered safe for Ryzen 3000 has caused some people to quickly degrade and ruin their cpus in a matter of months...
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ejd5c9 View: https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ejd5c9/1325v_is_not_safe_for_zen_2/


Instead, tweak the memory frequency and timings instead via Ryzen Dram Calculator guides.
 
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Apr 18, 2020
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So yeah, 1.325V is not safe. The maximum safe voltage for your personal zen 2 cpu is... I have no clue. If you want to be able to find this voltage turn on PBO and max PPT, TDC and EDC and run a worse-case workload as of The Stilts recommendation. ..
I have no clue how to find that.. i have PBO on with everything on auto except the one max voltage allowed i put to 1000 which i think is max. yea when i do a MT CB20 voltage hovers at 1.2 below ive never seen it go past it. Should i just leave it alone because in games ive seen single cores boost to 4425 i dont stare so i dont know if it does the 4450 too.
 
So yeah, 1.325V is not safe. The maximum safe voltage for your personal zen 2 cpu is... I have no clue. If you want to be able to find this voltage turn on PBO and max PPT, TDC and EDC and run a worse-case workload as of The Stilts recommendation. ..
....
To clarify...that's the maximum safe voltage (according to your processor's FIT, which can be different for my processor) at the worst case processing load, which will generate maximum heat. At light, bursty loads, generating very little actual heat, the maximum voltage is (up to) 1.5V, AMD has said so many times. The problem is: you can't have both when you take VCore off auto!
 
Apr 18, 2020
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What I did was turned on PBO to advanced i set the max cpu boost clock overdrive to 500mhz i went to 200 and the single boost went up some then i set it to 400 and it went some and at 500mhz i went up to 4450 i havent tried going further. Another thing i've changed is the Package Power Limit to 1000w but as im reading everything i might just change it all back to stock. In CB20 a MT run will run max voltage to 1.2 sometimes it goes a little higher than that but i think it'll just be safe to just change it to stock again.
 
What I did was turned on PBO to advanced i set the max cpu boost clock overdrive to 500mhz i went to 200 and the single boost went up some then i set it to 400 and it went some and at 500mhz i went up to 4450 i havent tried going further. Another thing i've changed is the Package Power Limit to 1000w but as im reading everything i might just change it all back to stock. In CB20 a MT run will run max voltage to 1.2 sometimes it goes a little higher than that but i think it'll just be safe to just change it to stock again.
It may just be my motherboard, but all the CPU Boost Clock Overdrive (or whatever it's called) does is increase heat output a lot with no performance gain (measured with CB20).

The Package Power Limit can not increase the power your CPU will consume so increasing it beyond your CPU's capability pretty much does nothing. It's purpose is to limit the power it can draw so only settings lower than it's maximum power has any effect. I can see using it to protect a weak VRM or for a cool/quiet build that's getting tucked into a confined space.

In a CB20 MT run voltage AS LOW AS 1.2V isn't uncommon, but if the processor's never asking for more (up to 1.5V) in light, bursty, loads then it can't perform as well as it should.

What are you trying to do?
 
It may just be my motherboard, but all the CPU Boost Clock Overdrive (or whatever it's called) does is increase heat output a lot with no performance gain (measured with CB20).

The Package Power Limit can not increase the power your CPU will consume so increasing it beyond your CPU's capability pretty much does nothing. It's purpose is to limit the power it can draw so only settings lower than it's maximum power has any effect. I can see using it to protect a weak VRM or for a cool/quiet build that's getting tucked into a confined space.

In a CB20 MT run voltage AS LOW AS 1.2V isn't uncommon, but if the processor's never asking for more (up to 1.5V) in light, bursty, loads then it can't perform as well as it should.

What are you trying to do?
You must have something wrong, my CB r20 MT score is almost 1000 points higher with PBO enabled. If you mixPBO settings and manual settings PBO doesn't work any more. If you must limit voltage, do it with negative voltage offset.
 
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You must have something wrong, my CB r20 MT score is almost 100 points higher with PBO enabled....
Like I said, it may just be my motherboard. That auto overclocking thing just doesn't seem to do anything whether PBO on, PBO off, fixed voltage/multiplier, auto voltage/multiplier whatever. Can't remember which combination did it, SOME settings would end up getting hotter but CB20 score didn't improve beyond margin of error.

The CB20 performance it puts down with the tweaked PBO makes me think it wouldn't help anyway. This 3700X pulls 5135-5155 MT scores and 511-512 ST scores this way. The range being across three runs, with first run being right after bootup with 'clean' memory configuration.
 
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zx128k

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The best CB20 score is approx. around 5200 MT. This is a stock 3800x with overclocked RAM/IF. Cold day and all.



With an overclock to the cores I get 5300 MT on a cold day. All I am saying is most of the performance is not in higher core clocks but with the RAM/IF overclock.





ST is 551 but its very hard to get after running the MT 5900 test.


 
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..

With an overclock to the cores I get 5300 MT on a cold day. All I am sying is most of the performance is not in higher core clocks but with the RAM/IF overclock.
...
That....and higher mid-range clock speed during extremely heavy processing loads. That is helped seriously by better cooling, but under a 240mm AIO I can get mid-range clock speeds to go from 3650Mhz (just above 3700x base clock) to 4200Mhz in Prime 95 just by changing PBO to ENABLED. Tweaking PBO moves the clocks to 4250 during the same test.

But turning on the auto overclocking (on my board) just increased temperature. I have no idea what it did; clocks stayed right around 3650 or so in the middle of the P95 test.
 

zx128k

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That....and higher mid-range clock speed during extremely heavy processing loads. That is helped seriously by better cooling, but under a 240mm AIO I can get mid-range clock speeds to go from 3650Mhz (just above 3700x base clock) to 4200Mhz in Prime 95 just by changing PBO to ENABLED. Tweaking PBO moves the clocks to 4250 during the same test.

But turning on the auto overclocking (on my board) just increased temperature. I have no idea what it did; clocks stayed right around 3650 or so in the middle of the P95 test.
Something wrong with auto-overclock. It work okay on a x570 board. If it is too high it causes issues. +75-+100 is okay for me but higher and ST dies in cinebench r20.
 

zx128k

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Apr 18, 2020
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3700x runs at 65 TDP PBO will give you at least the same headroom as the 3800x. Overclocking wise there is some secret to getting insane performance overclocks out of the 3700x
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/9271166 CPU Score 12 187 equals a very well OC'ed 9900k. Clearly for some people getting 9900ks max OC scores are possible https://www.3dmark.com/spy/8418587 CPU Score 13 988 (same score as number 29 on the 9900ks leader board https://www.3dmark.com/spy/11245573).
Is there a guide I could read on it?
 

zx128k

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Is there a guide I could read on it?
It's likely high RAM voltages (2 volts) and tight timings. With a great samsung b-die kit. First you have to limit the maximum amount of memory available to windows to stop blue screens.

Then load msconfig.msc, go to the boot tab. Then select Advanced options. The window that opens should have Maximum memory in the upper right hand corner. Reduce the memory available to windows and reboot.

Now you can enter BIOS and start overclocking the ram. This video will help you with the RAM overclocking.


Note your RAM will require active cooling, i.e. a fan blowing air over them or they will overheat very quickly. Once the RAM sticks overheat they will become unstable at any settings.

You won't match an overclocked 3800x as they are a better binned version of the 3700x but you can get close to stock and with a IF/RAM overclock.

3800x Time spy cpu score good air flow open window and normal air temperature 16c (Where I live, in Summer, from June to August, temperatures are cool: average highs are around 18/19 °C (64/66 °F). The temperature rarely exceeds 25 °C (77 °F)) . No overclock on the cores. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/46035860? 11529 DDR4 3600 CL16 @ DDR3800 @ CL15
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/46036222? 11516 4.4GHz all cores https://www.3dmark.com/spy/9573432 11765 Maximum overclocking https://www.3dmark.com/spy/9590855 11909

9900ks Time spy cpu score 11568 https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i9-9900ks-processor-review,18.html DDR4 3200 CL16 MHz (Corsair Dominator) 5GHz.

Tomshadware 9900k @ 5GHz 3600 RAM https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/reviews/intel-core-i9-9900ks-special-edition-review/4 11755


Cinebench r20 MT 5205
https://ibb.co/CV3SLPC

Cinebench r20 ST 528
https://ibb.co/CV3SLPC
 
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PBO for me allowed me too boost single core up to 4450 but i moved it back to stock just incase im doing something wrong
If you're getting a 4450 clock speed in PBO settings it's only doing it on light, low-current boosts on a single core at a time. As long as you're not running an elevated Vcore, especially at a fixed value, it's safe. With voltage on auto (or a slight offset) the CPU will lower the voltage as needed when the cores heat up under heavy, high current, loads.

But as I've noticed, the real value of what you're doing isn't shown with clock speeds alone. Run a benchmark, the best is Cinebench 20. Look at BOTH multi-threaded scores and single-threaded scores. That puts everything to the test, including your cooling. You want the cores under heavy loads to stay cool so it will hold higher clocks with the low(er) voltage the processor wants to run at.
 

zx128k

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I would add that you need to run the benchmark a few times. The scores tend to vary a lot because everything affects them. Even the cycles of the moon. Anyway, safe mode works much better for some benchmarks.
 
Is there a guide I could read on it?
Be VERY careful looking at 3DMark scores...the same for any Userbenchmark scores...to compare to. The online databases are hopelessly useless for average users to compare to because 'extreme' and 'professional' overclockers use them too. They want to post the 'number one, top' score, and will make multiple runs at it, counting in the hundreds, to get there. That skews the averages so you're effectively comparing to people who don't care about hardware life and/or do it on LN2 with equally insane settings.

That's why those benchmarks are essentially worthless except to see how your system performance changes as you make tweaks to it.
 

Karadjgne

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Ya'll are mixing and matching and expect good results. Ain't gonna work like that. The 3800x is nothing more than a better binned, higher TDP 3700x. With the 3800x, 4.4GHz is usually attainable with the right tweaks, but for the 3700x you can expect 4.2GHz to be the limit and not fry the cpu with high voltages.

For those cpus, 1.325v is for maximum workloads at high current usage. Basically pushing the 3x power limits to max. In lighter current workloads, with current dropped, voltage can be raised to a max of 1.5v to get the same power output. It's a fine balance, but if manually setting voltages, you must also manually limit current usage and not exceed PBO set limits. If anything, those limits should be offset lower so that power limits do not exceed the maximum settings during boost. Rule of the '='. Both sides must balance.
 
Ya'll are mixing and matching and expect good results. Ain't gonna work like that. The 3800x is nothing more than a better binned, higher TDP 3700x. With the 3800x, 4.4GHz is usually attainable with the right tweaks, but for the 3700x you can expect 4.2GHz to be the limit and not fry the cpu with high voltages.

For those cpus, 1.325v is for maximum workloads at high current usage. Basically pushing the 3x power limits to max. In lighter current workloads, with current dropped, voltage can be raised to a max of 1.5v to get the same power output. It's a fine balance, but if manually setting voltages, you must also manually limit current usage and not exceed PBO set limits. If anything, those limits should be offset lower so that power limits do not exceed the maximum settings during boost. Rule of the '='. Both sides must balance.
It's easy to get confused here... I hope you're not talking a fixed, manual overclock? 1.325 is currently well debunked as a 'safe' voltage for fixed overclocks. It's now understood that if you're doing greater than 1.2V fixed you're asking for early degradation unless you go through the process of determining what your processor's FIT values are.
 
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zx128k

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The most performance can be found by increasing the IF from stock 1600MHz to as close to 1900MHz as possible. Also to maintain good latency you must run IF frequency in a 1:1 ratio with the RAM frequency. Both at 1900MHz will yeld the best performance.

Most 3800x cpu can't go much above 1900MHz, a gold sample will hit 1933MHz for a RAM speed of 3866MT/s. This with good timings will drop memory latency towards 62ns.

At 1900MHz with 3800MT/s on the RAM I can get close to 63.2ns on the RAM. If I overclock to 4.4GHz then its 63ns if I remember correctly. This means a good overclocking build must have RAM that could be overclocked to 3800MT/s.

The next part is what is the best RAM and why.

Samsung B-Die has the best lowest timings and overclocks very well. Timings with b-die can be lowered by increasing voltage. The best kits can do 3800 CL14 @ 1.45volts. The maximum 24/7 voltage with b-die is 1.5 volts with air flow over the RAM sticks.

So what kit should I buy, I don't want to spend over £200/$200 on a RAM kit.

Patriot Memory Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G440C9K

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07KXLFDL6?pf_rd_r=TB49RMQ55VCQDVW10W3D&pf_rd_p=e632fea2-678f-4848-9a97-bcecda59cb4e - £132.99

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KXLFDL6?pf_rd_r=TB49RMQ55VCQDVW10W3D&pf_rd_p=e632fea2-678f-4848-9a97-bcecda59cb4e - $129.99

Next try and get as close to IF 1900MHz as you can. Most cpu's should do at least an IF of 1800 which is 3600MT/s. The maximum IF frequency of your cpu will dictate the maximum RAM speed. If you don't run your RAM in sync with your IF, then you get a massive performance penalty caused by a big increase in RAM latency.



With Samsung b-die you have a lot of voltage headroom to lower your RAM timings. You can set your RAM too a maximum of 1.45-1.5 volts. PVS416G440C9K XMP default voltage is 1.45 volts already. Then if you can try and set the IF to 1900MHz and set the RAM to 3800. If it boots then you are in business and can start tightening timings.

Next you need to download Ryzen DRAM Calculator 1.7.0 and load the PVS416G440C9K XMP setting and select fast. This will net you the settings for a starting point to begin tightening your RAM timings.



With PVS416G440C9K you should be able to set CL14 if you are luckly (see 14-14-14-34). A quick video about RAM timings.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

Over 1.5 volts is very bad. Only use a maximum of 1.5volts if your kit is samsung b-die. Check here, https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

What you should aim for is 102.6s for the easy test and as close to 63ns in aida64 as you can get. Examples:




Only after you have dialed in your IF and RAM settings. Tested they are stable, do you then consider overclocking the cores. You can use the Ryzen DRAM Calculator 1.7.0 memtest for stablity testing and use the max ram button to select all the RAM available. 400% is good way to test new settings.
 
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Karadjgne

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Exactly. Unlike Intel, amd takes TDP values quite seriously, when they say 65w, that's exactly what they mean. TDP isn't heat output, it's original intention is Power, and ppl setting a manual voltage of 1.325v never bother with current limits. Which then puts the cpu in jeapordy.

65w tdp:
PPT : 88w
TDC : 60A
EDC : 90A

PPT is load maximum use. TDC is maximum current. EDC is spike current, extreme short usage.

So you can push a 65w Ryzen to its 88w socket limit, with upto 1.46v to maximize the 60A, but that has the same affect as running an intel cpu at a constant 100ish°C. If you want to push the higher voltages, you need to drop the current maximum, like dropping the temp to 70°C, so @ TDC 40A. Leaving the TDC alone will require lower voltages, like 1.2v. Balance.

Personally, with a Ryzen, manual OC is pointless, better to get a good cooler, set PBO and the autoOC and let it do its own thing on auto.
 

zx128k

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Exactly. Unlike Intel, amd takes TDP values quite seriously, when they say 65w, that's exactly what they mean. TDP isn't heat output, it's original intention is Power, and ppl setting a manual voltage of 1.325v never bother with current limits. Which then puts the cpu in jeapordy.

65w tdp:
PPT : 88w
TDC : 60A
EDC : 90A

PPT is load maximum use. TDC is maximum current. EDC is spike current, extreme short usage.

So you can push a 65w Ryzen to its 88w socket limit, with upto 1.46v to maximize the 60A, but that has the same affect as running an intel cpu at a constant 100ish°C. If you want to push the higher voltages, you need to drop the current maximum, like dropping the temp to 70°C, so @ TDC 40A. Leaving the TDC alone will require lower voltages, like 1.2v. Balance.

Personally, with a Ryzen, manual OC is pointless, better to get a good cooler, set PBO and the autoOC and let it do its own thing on auto.
Some 3800x's will do 4.5GHz all cores at safe voltages ( a complex and debatable topic) and an IF of 1933MHz (most hit a wall after 1900, with me its 1919).

PBO with a scalar of 1x is more or less the same as stock for me. Even 10x scalar just adds a 100 to my time spy cpu score. The PBO EDC bug gets me to 11700+. It's almost a 4.4GHz all cores overclock. After that all core manual overclock @ 4.4GHz is stable for me and so is 4.45GHz. 4.5GHz is benchable but won't pass prime95.

There are lots of bugs with PBO, just setting the values to maximum (PPT, TDC and EDC will harm performance). Buildzoid did a video about it. EDC bug works well on my asrock x570 taichi board with BIOS 1.0.0.3 ABBA.

 
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