Franklin

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Overclocking total newbie here. I recently found that my mobo
(Syntax SV266A) will allow me to overvolt my Duron 700 Mhz by
changing a setting in the BIOS/CMOS screens.

I scaled up the voltage by 4 per cent and got the Duron to go at 729
MHz. Mother Board Monitor reports the cpu temp as 45 degrees
celsius wit no real load.

----

I hope I am doing the right thing by *simply* raising the voltage
and doing nothing else.

[I have heard of the pencil trick for Duron but at this stage don't
want to try that just yet.]

------

I have a few questions for you overclockers:

(Q.1) Can I simply raise the cpu voltage to get the Duron to go
faster?

(Q.2) Is the only precaution I need to take is to make sure the cpu
temp doesn't get too high.

(Q.3) I have read that 80 degrees celsius is themax for a Duron 700
MHz. Is that about the right sort of temp to consider as a max?

(Q.4) Is there an approximate calculation or estimate of what extra
power my PSU will need to deliver as it is close to its max? (I
really don't want to have my disk drives going into error because
they are not getting enough power.)
 
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Bitstring <955FCE5B3FBEA31E75@127.0.0.1>, from the wonderful person
Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com> said
>Overclocking total newbie here. I recently found that my mobo
>(Syntax SV266A) will allow me to overvolt my Duron 700 Mhz by
>changing a setting in the BIOS/CMOS screens.
>
>I scaled up the voltage by 4 per cent and got the Duron to go at 729
>MHz. Mother Board Monitor reports the cpu temp as 45 degrees
>celsius wit no real load.
>
>----
>
>I hope I am doing the right thing by *simply* raising the voltage
>and doing nothing else.
>
>[I have heard of the pencil trick for Duron but at this stage don't
>want to try that just yet.]
>
>------
>
>I have a few questions for you overclockers:
>
>(Q.1) Can I simply raise the cpu voltage to get the Duron to go
>faster?

Yes, right up until it burns out. However if you are raising the FSB and
not the multiplier (which requires the chip be unlocked) then you are
probably stressing the memory, PCI peripherals, disc channels, etc. more
than the CPU (so they'll probably quit working first .. not destroyed
since you are not over-volting them any, although raising the FSB has
been known to trash disks on rare occasions, since corrupt disk writes
are possible).

I'm not sure of that particular motherboard, but most (of that age)
derive the PCI clock (33 Mhz) by dividing down the FSB clock (66, 100,
133, 166 or 200 Mhz). Modern boards or 'overclocking friendly' boards
lock the 33Mhz, independent of what you tweak the FSB to.

>(Q.2) Is the only precaution I need to take is to make sure the cpu
>temp doesn't get too high.

No, at some point you will manage to destroy it whether it gets too hot
or not. Heat is related to energy input (constant times frequency times
voltage squared, over some time period, less whatever you manage to get
away), but there are plenty of chip failure modes apart from 'oops,
something melted'.

>(Q.3) I have read that 80 degrees celsius is themax for a Duron 700
>MHz. Is that about the right sort of temp to consider as a max?

For a duron 700 the maximum was, iirc, 95c. however that is the core
temperature, measured on-die, and there is no sensor to measure it there
in the actual PC - what you are measuring is the under-chip temperature,
which is probably 10-15c lower. So yeah, 80c is probably as hot as it
will run.

>(Q.4) Is there an approximate calculation or estimate of what extra
>power my PSU will need to deliver as it is close to its max? (I
>really don't want to have my disk drives going into error because
>they are not getting enough power.)

Not a big issue, the chances of you hitting the PSU limit due to winding
the CPU VCore up by 10% or 15% is pretty small.

Note that even a duron will normally lock up (cease to work at all) or
go unstable, before it self destructs, IFF you have a HS on properly,
and you ramp the voltage/speed/temperature up =gently=. If you suddenly
stick 2.5v in to VCore, expect it to die, permanently, very fast.

Personally I'm not sure why you'd bother, unless you want to play .. you
can buy a 3x faster processor for about $25, and you can probably find
something that'll work with your motherboard 2x faster than what you
have for peanuts second-hand. Heck, I've =thrown away= Duron 800s that
would run at 1Ghz at 1.75v.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.
 
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:17:08 +0100, Franklin wrote:

> Overclocking total newbie here. I recently found that my mobo
> (Syntax SV266A) will allow me to overvolt my Duron 700 Mhz by
> changing a setting in the BIOS/CMOS screens.
>
> I scaled up the voltage by 4 per cent and got the Duron to go at 729
> MHz. Mother Board Monitor reports the cpu temp as 45 degrees
> celsius wit no real load.
>
Changing voltages doesn't change CPU speed. So that isn't what caused an
increase in speed, if thee was.
>
> I hope I am doing the right thing by *simply* raising the voltage and
> doing nothing else.
>
Not really. You only need to raise voltage to account for addtional stress
on the cpu if you overclock it

> [I have heard of the pencil trick for Duron but at this stage don't want
> to try that just yet.]
>
You shouldn't need it with that MB.

> I have a few questions for you overclockers:
>
> (Q.1) Can I simply raise the cpu voltage to get the Duron to go faster?
>
No. CPU speed is determined by 2 things, multiplier and FSB clock.
Multiplier times FSB clock = CPU speed. If you overclock, you may need to
raise vcore to compensate for the added speed of the cpu.

> (Q.2) Is the only precaution I need to take is to make sure the cpu
> temp doesn't get too high.
>
Yes. If you increase the multiplier. If you rasie the FSB, then there's
lots of other things that come into play.

> (Q.3) I have read that 80 degrees celsius is themax for a Duron 700
> MHz. Is that about the right sort of temp to consider as a max?
>
Nope. That's die temp. I wouldn't run it over 60C under full load on that
board. Actually, I wouldn't run it over about 50C, but that's just me. The
cooler you keep the cpu, the more it clock.

> (Q.4) Is there an approximate calculation or estimate of what extra
> power my PSU will need to deliver as it is close to its max? (I really
> don't want to have my disk drives going into error because they are not
> getting enough power.)

I wouldn't worry about the extra power needed unless you upgrade cpu's.
You need to worry more about the FSB if you change it as it will affect
all the other system buses.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
 

Franklin

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Wes, thanks for the useful info. I have asked you a bit more below.


GSV Three Minds in a Can <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Bitstring from the wonderful person Franklin <fran@mail.kom>:
>>
>>
>> Overclocking total newbie here. I recently found that my mobo
>> (Syntax SV266A) will allow me to overvolt my Duron 700 Mhz by
>> changing a setting in the BIOS/CMOS screens.
>>
>> I scaled up the voltage by 4 per cent and got the Duron to go
>> at 729 MHz. Mother Board Monitor reports the cpu temp as 45
>> degrees celsius wit no real load.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> I hope I am doing the right thing by *simply* raising the
>> voltage and doing nothing else.
>>
>> (Q.1) Can I simply raise the cpu voltage to get the Duron to
>> go faster?
>
> Yes, right up until it burns out. However if you are raising
> the FSB and not the multiplier (which requires the chip be
> unlocked) then you are probably stressing the memory, PCI
> peripherals, disc channels, etc. more than the CPU (so they'll
> probably quit working first .. not destroyed since you are not
> over-volting them any, although raising the FSB has been known
> to trash disks on rare occasions, since corrupt disk writes are
> possible).

From what you say I think it seems that simply raising the voltage
on my mobo results in speeding up the FSB. Is this
understanding correct?

You seem to be quite right about the memory. In a spate of
enthusiasm I made changes to the memory settings and also to the cpu
voltage. (I didn't consider changing memory settings to be
overclocking but I get I was too narrow in thinking of overclocking
applying only to the cpu.)

I increased the cpu voltage even more (to about 12% higher) and I
very quickly got system instability. Blue screen on XP. So this is
probably the memory struggling then, is it?

> I'm not sure of that particular motherboard, but most (of that
> age) derive the PCI clock (33 Mhz) by dividing down the FSB
> clock (66, 100, 133, 166 or 200 Mhz). Modern boards or
> 'overclocking friendly' boards lock the 33Mhz, independent of
> what you tweak the FSB to.



>> (Q.4) Is there an approximate calculation or estimate of what
>> extra power my PSU will need to deliver as it is close to its
>> max? (I really don't want to have my disk drives going into
>> error because they are not getting enough power.)
>
> Not a big issue, the chances of you hitting the PSU limit due
> to winding the CPU VCore up by 10% or 15% is pretty small.

Seems that my memory settings were too aggressive then. Maybe I
should work with the cpu first and see how far I can push it
sensibly and then adjust memory timings.

Is this the best way to do it in my case?


> Personally I'm not sure why you'd bother, unless you want to
> play .. you can buy a 3x faster processor for about $25, and
> you can probably find something that'll work with your
> motherboard 2x faster than what you have for peanuts
> second-hand. Heck, I've =thrown away= Duron 800s that would run
> at 1Ghz at 1.75v.

You're right. But for now this is my main system. I find that it
is probably working mostly just to keep the OS happy. The extra few
percent power is therefore quite noticeable.
 
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Bitstring <9561A8484537931E75@127.0.0.1>, from the wonderful person
Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com> said
<snip>
>>> (Q.1) Can I simply raise the cpu voltage to get the Duron to
>>> go faster?
>>
>> Yes, right up until it burns out. However if you are raising
>> the FSB and not the multiplier (which requires the chip be
>> unlocked) then you are probably stressing the memory, PCI
>> peripherals, disc channels, etc. more than the CPU (so they'll
>> probably quit working first .. not destroyed since you are not
>> over-volting them any, although raising the FSB has been known
>> to trash disks on rare occasions, since corrupt disk writes are
>> possible).
>
>From what you say I think it seems that simply raising the voltage
>on my mobo results in speeding up the FSB. Is this
>understanding correct?

No, you need to increase the FSB or increase the multiplier. Since you
said you had it running at 730 Mhz I assumed you had increased the FSB.
The only point in raising the voltage is to enable the CPU to still work
at faster speeds. The manufacturer (AMD) tests these things to work at
the rated speed (700Mhz) at the rated temperature (95c core temp) at the
rated voltage (I forget what your was, but probably 1.75v +/- 10%).
Typically they run worst at the highest temp and lower voltage .. so
it'll do 700 Mhz at 1.6v and 95c, or it'll fail AMDs testing, but at
1.9v and -20c it'll probably do 900 Mhz or something similar .. AMD just
test it for meeting spec under worst conditions.

Sadly raising VCore raises power dissipation and thus temperature, so
you need some really fancy cooling (Peltiers etc.) to achieve the ideal
of 'higher voltage and minimum temperature both at once'.

>You seem to be quite right about the memory. In a spate of
>enthusiasm I made changes to the memory settings and also to the cpu
>voltage. (I didn't consider changing memory settings to be
>overclocking but I get I was too narrow in thinking of overclocking
>applying only to the cpu.)
>
>I increased the cpu voltage even more (to about 12% higher) and I
>very quickly got system instability. Blue screen on XP. So this is
>probably the memory struggling then, is it?

No telling what is falling over .. I supposed you were increasing the
FSB (which increases the speed memory has to go at). if you were just
winding up the voltages, I'd stop right now and go and do a lot more
research. There are copious forums and newsgroups dedicated to
overclocking (but it'll be how to get an XP3800 to go at XP4800 speeds,
not how to get a Duron 700 to go 20% faster, unless you go dig into the
back issues).

>
>> I'm not sure of that particular motherboard, but most (of that
>> age) derive the PCI clock (33 Mhz) by dividing down the FSB
>> clock (66, 100, 133, 166 or 200 Mhz). Modern boards or
>> 'overclocking friendly' boards lock the 33Mhz, independent of
>> what you tweak the FSB to.
>
>>> (Q.4) Is there an approximate calculation or estimate of what
>>> extra power my PSU will need to deliver as it is close to its
>>> max? (I really don't want to have my disk drives going into
>>> error because they are not getting enough power.)
>>
>> Not a big issue, the chances of you hitting the PSU limit due
>> to winding the CPU VCore up by 10% or 15% is pretty small.
>
>Seems that my memory settings were too aggressive then. Maybe I
>should work with the cpu first and see how far I can push it
>sensibly and then adjust memory timings.
>
>Is this the best way to do it in my case?

The best way to do it is normally to unlock the CPU at increase the
multiplier - that doesn't stress anything else at all. Where that isn't
possible, you increase the FSB, being aware that this may cause memory,
graphics cards, disks, and all sorts of other things to fail.
You increase the voltage if you have to to get the system stable - if
things get too hot, or if the system isn't stable at the higher voltage
either, you then reduce it to the minimum voltage which is stable at the
speed the thing will actually go at. Your Duron700 isn't going to go any
faster than 900 Mhz no matter what voltage you try to apply .. and
you'll be rather lucky if it will actually go that fast.

>
>> Personally I'm not sure why you'd bother, unless you want to
>> play .. you can buy a 3x faster processor for about $25, and
>> you can probably find something that'll work with your
>> motherboard 2x faster than what you have for peanuts
>> second-hand. Heck, I've =thrown away= Duron 800s that would run
>> at 1Ghz at 1.75v.
>
>You're right. But for now this is my main system. I find that it
>is probably working mostly just to keep the OS happy. The extra few
>percent power is therefore quite noticeable.

Nope, if you've got the OS tuned properly (even with WinXP) it doesn't
use very much CPU at all. Go do some more web research on what you can
turn off int he OS in oredr to get better system performance.

I personally would not dick around with my main machine .. overclocking,
especially if you are a novice at it, is quite likely to trash
something. Hope your backups are all current, and there's nothing on the
machine that you couldn't either re-create or live without. 8>.

Overclocking only makes sense when you either can't buy a faster CPU
(overclocking that XP3800+ to an XP4800+ for instance, since you can't
buy an XP4800+) or if the faster CPU is outrageously expensive.
Overclocking an obsolete Duron 700 to replace an equally obsolete Duron
900 (you'll never do much better than that) is a waste of lifespan.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.