P4 up to 114% faster with NVRef 12.10

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
<font color=red>At any rate, this thread wasn't really about P4 vs. Athlon, but about how to get your Pentium 4 system to perform better by adding some new drivers.</font color=red>

Excuse me then if this was the case then why did you add the following to your opening post?

<font color=red> Overall the Pentium 4 now beats the Athlon squarely in this benchmark</font color=red>

If you do not want to make it a p4 vs athlon subject then don't make statements like this in the context!

Secondly, real world applications are where we measure superiority not in any synthetic benchmarks, bar none.

Third cas2 DDR and pc-800 rdram are not simularly priced any more, I have already shown you this, would you like to see a link in which the new pc2400 ddr was tested? Stable all the way up to 160 FSB ( 320 ddr) at Cas 2. And when comparing a 256 meg stick of Rdram to a 256 meg stick of DDR the difference is more than 60 bucks. That my friend is a savings of over 30 percent, hardly what I would call neglidgable.

<font color=red>
I'd call overclocking a processor about on par with installing beta drivers as far as stability is concerned. </font color=red>

Ok I can give you that, but should I show you where in numerous post you advised against overclocking a processor? something about running out of Spec and the like. Now you are advising people to use beta drivers, which you liken to overclocking, which you advise against?

You are a very knowedgable man Rayston. I give you that. However you play both sides of the fence, which ever suits your argument of the moment to make your point. Most of the time you only tell half the truth and leave out the rest of the story.






A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Ncogneto on 05/12/01 07:01 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
G

Guest

Guest
I've been thinking about upgrading from my Duron based system to the P4, and these new benchmarks help quite a bit. I'm especially going to make sure I don't get a VIA based motherboard again, I've been having random crashes with the one I have, a problem I never had with a BX motherboard.
 

Raystonn

Distinguished
Apr 12, 2001
2,273
0
19,780
"Excuse me then if this was the case then why did you add the following to your opening post? 'Overall the Pentium 4 now beats the Athlon squarely in this benchmark'"

Because it does.

"Third cas2 DDR and pc-800 rdram are not simularly priced any more"

$79 for 128MB RDRAM, $68 for 128MB PC2400 CAS2 DDR. These prices are pretty much on par. Both will continue to drop.

"should I show you where in numerous post you advised against overclocking a processor"

I don't think I've ever done that. Feel free to point out any posts.

"you play both sides of the fence, which ever suits your argument of the moment to make your point. Most of the time you only tell half the truth and leave out the rest of the story."

I'm sorry if you feel this way but it's not true at all. You take posts written by others and attribute them to me. You then claim I argue both sides. This is not the case at all. Additionally, I never tell half truths. All of these claims are based off your assumption that I've said you should not overclock your processor. I run an overclocked processor here at home, so I do not know from where you get your information.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 
G

Guest

Guest
Out of all fairness to Rayston I think he just tells it like it is. Some people may not agree with him all the time but he is usually 100% accurate on his technical data. I have yet to see anybody prove him wrong on his information. He is more impartial then most ppl on this board and if you want to criticize anybody it shouldn’t be him.
Just my 2 cents.



(A)bort, (R)etry, (G)et a beer?
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
<font color=red>$79 for 128MB RDRAM, $68 for 128MB PC2400 CAS2 DDR. These prices are pretty much on par. Both will continue to drop.</font color=red>

or if you like $121.00 for 256 meg of pc2400 and $189.00 for rdram....now in my book 189 - 121 = 68 dollars!

You reply " because it does" does not yet answer the question, your opening coment did suggest an argument of p4 vs athlon and anyone can plainly see that!

<font color=red>I run an overclocked processor here at home, so I do not know from where you get your information.</font color=red>

Maybe I should have reworded it did you not suggest against overclocking the memory? I should have said overclocking in general, my error. I do not think I need to point you in the direction of that thread or do I? So, I guess that in your opinion overclocking the cpu is fine, but overclocking your memory is not? But wait! Seeing how you run a p4, and you overclock aren't you running your memory out of spec then as well? You strongly advised against user of cas 2.5 DDR running there Ram at cas 2 but now you say you are doing the same thing? Or do you have a very rare unlocked p4 that allows overclocking by means other than the front side bus?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=12748#12748" target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=12748#12748</A>

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 
G

Guest

Guest
Overclocking memory can be done in two ways. First the most common way is increasing the FSB speed i.e. running PC133 memory at 140mhz. The other way is running the CAS speed out of spec i.e. running CAS3 memory at CAS2, that type of overclocking is a big no-no because in most cases it doesn’t work, the computer will have all kinds of weird errors if it even runs at all. I believe Raystonn was referring to this type of overclocking when he advised against it.


Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
Both ways of overclocking your memory achieve the same results. This is why it is vary common to see pc-133 rated at cas3 at 133 mhz and cas2 at 100 mhz.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
here is a link using DDR memory and the corelation of cas ratings and fsb frequency, as you can see both effect memory.

<A HREF="http://fullon3d.com/reports/corsair/pc2400/pc2400.kevin.shtml" target="_new">http://fullon3d.com/reports/corsair/pc2400/pc2400.kevin.shtml</A>

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 

Raystonn

Distinguished
Apr 12, 2001
2,273
0
19,780
For 256MB of memory, the $121 is a pretty good deal. For RDRAM you'd get 2 of the 128MB modules for a total of $158. So there is a $37 price difference between the two. Is that a lot? That's up to the individual to decide.

"did you not suggest against overclocking the memory"

Yes, I do plainly recommend against overclocking CAS2.5 memory to CAS2 at this time. As there is a shortage of CAS2 memory on the market right now, you will currently not find companies underclocking CAS2 chips to sell at CAS 2.5 at a lower price point. Thus, you really are running memory chips that have failed the manufacturer's CAS2 test and doing so at CAS2. Your results will vary by just how badly the chips failed, but this will most likely lead to an unstable system.

Basically, my view is that overclocking any hardware to a point where you know it failed the manufacturer's test is not advisable. Running any software that you know failed the developers' tests is also not advisable. However, we know nothing about these version 12.10 drivers that would indicate they failed any kind of tests.


"Seeing how you run a p4, and you overclock aren't you..."

When did I say I was overclocking a Pentium 4 system? I am not. You do not know what system I own, and therefore cannot presume to know how I manage any of them.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 

Raystonn

Distinguished
Apr 12, 2001
2,273
0
19,780
"Both ways of overclocking your memory achieve the same results. This is why it is vary common to see pc-133 rated at cas3 at 133 mhz and cas2 at 100 mhz."

Completely incorrect. That is like comparing a harddrive's seek time with its ATA66 throughput. CAS3 adds an additional waitstate, increasing the latency (seek time) of the memory. Increasing the frontside bus increases the bandwidth (throughput) of the memory, but does not affect the internal latency of the memory device.

Overclocking your memory's CAS rating is a very dangerous thing in terms of stability and data integrity, and does not affect the actual performance of your system all that much. I recommend against it.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
Interesting...all this information and now you say that you d onot own a p4 yourself? Or you own more than one and the one you overclock is not a p4?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
No sir I am not incorrect at all. My choice of words may not be the best but FSB and Cas rating of your memory are directly related. An increase in FSB Decreases the actual time of the wait state itself which in effect lowers the Cas rating of the Dram chip.There is an additional wait state when comparing Cas3 to Cas2, which is correct, but this "state" is in terms of a "cycle" this cycle is reduced when you up your FSB.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
<font color=red>For 256MB of memory, the $121 is a pretty good deal. For RDRAM you'd get 2 of the 128MB modules for a total of $158. So there is a $37 price difference between the two. Is that a lot? That's up to the individual to decide.</font color=red>

Well that would limit you to the atual amount of Ram you could install in your system now would'nt it? And if you needed larger amounts of Ram in the p4 system going this route would also increase you latency by adding more of the smaller 128 meg chips rather than choosing the larger 256 chips as well. this would seem to be not a very wise choice for an owner of a p4 if he needed large amounts of Ram for say video editing or image rendering ( the knd of app the p4 really shines at) so, suggesting to use 128 megs sticks merely to make your point of a price difference would only appoly if the user had small Rdram requirements.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 
G

Guest

Guest
Whoopdy doo!!! Like your eyes can differentiate a handful of fps....
 

Raystonn

Distinguished
Apr 12, 2001
2,273
0
19,780
Name the amount of system memory you'd like installed and we can compare prices using the optimally priced solution. Remember that you incur a slight additional latency for adding more memory to a channel. Both initial RDRAM modules are each the first on their channel, so there's no latency issue yet.

There really isn't that big of a difference between memory prices at this time. The difference in today's prices is more than made up for by the fact that you get more bandwidth from today's RDRAM systems.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 

mjdunn

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2001
228
0
18,680
So would you advise someone to get a p4 system right now?

If I needed a computer right now...what would you advise?

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
 
G

Guest

Guest
i would have to say if yer short on cash go Athlon it cheap for a reason so watch out. Or spend a tad more for a p3. But i would wait on the P4 till northwood thats what im doing.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol:
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
I would say anyone spending the money on a p4 would probably be a power user and thus would be in the nieghborhood of 512 or greater.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!