Question Pain in wrist and finger using my mouse Logitech G300s

Nov 24, 2020
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Hi im using the G300s in office and home(gaming) now for about 3 years and daylie over 8 hours, earlier the old model G300.
For quite a good time i suffer from wrist and finger pain.
My hand size is ~20,5cm x 9cm and im using some kind of fingertips grip(mix of claw and fingertips) while let my thenar(?) rest on the mousepad witouth touching the mouse. I was using dpi around 500, but like to change it to 800 in future.
How can i fix it please ? I would replace the mouse(recommend me model) and change my grip if necessary.
 

spacejunk

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Have you tried adjusting the height of your chair/arm-wrests relative to your mouse pad ?

I have found that the level of your arm/elbow support has a big impact on wrist strain. I personally use a keyboard tray which sits about two inches above my legs and my arm-wrests are precisely level with it.

It could also be that you just have mild RSI or you are prone to inflammation. My brother for instance has the same issue as you when using my setup and he suffers pain after only 20 minutes, whereas I can use it indefinitely without issue.
 
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Ralston18

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See a doctor.

Another mouse or some other ergonomic "fix" might help.

However, that may simply mask an underlying problem and potentially lead to more pain and greater problems.

Or the pain could be due to some completely different issue.

Hopefully the problem can be easily resolved but you do not want to (and should not) leave it to chance and circumstance.

Get your wrist and fingers looked at by a doctor.
 
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Nov 24, 2020
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@Ralston18 Hi thanks for your answer,
its not chronic pain i suffer, more like after playing a few games or long work day.
I personally think im doing something wrong or the mouse does not fit very well.

@spacejunk Thanks, i need to check that. Pretty soon i get a new ergonomic chair, on the old i didnt got 90° edge more like 110°. The chair was just pretty old and sometimes it went down automatically. Lets see with the new one.

Can you in case please recommend me a mouse which would fit to my style aswell ? Maybe the mouse is just to small for my big hands ? I dont know. I bought this mouse because it was one of the onliest models which got 4 additional buttons on top for my mmorpg times =).
This mouse does not allow something else then fingertip because of the size.
 
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spacejunk

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Can you in case please recommend me a mouse which would fit to my style aswell ? Maybe the mouse is just to small for my big hands ? I dont know. I bought this mouse because it was one of the onliest models which got 4 additional buttons on top for my mmorpg times =).
This mouse does not allow something else then fingertip because of the size.
I'm probably not the best person to be recommending mice as I am quite picky myself and do not like most mainstream models.

My only suggestion is that you look into ergonomic mice. Such mice typically have a very high arch and deep contoured surfaces. For a design reference check out models such as Mx-Master, G700-S- Mx-1000. I'm currently using the MX-master though it's not great for FPS games. Have not tried the Mx-master 3 yet so I cannot comment on it.

One particular mouse that comes to mind that might compliment your usage is the G-604 Lightspeed. It has a reasonably high arch and looks like it can accommodate large hands. It also boasts lots of side buttons. I plan to purchase this mouse soon, so this suggestion is purely speculative. The G-502 also looks promising, although I have concerns that the design is too flat for me. Hope that helps.

PS. One other mouse I have my eye on is the Corsair Dark core Pro RGB wireless. The body shape looks solid and I've heard reports of it being quite comfortable. I'm not quite sold on it yet though.
 
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Nov 24, 2020
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Thanks for your answer,
i cant find informations about which grip, shade is "healthier" but logical i think claw and fingertip should be healthier, because on palm grip the whole hand is deeper which provides more pressure on the wrist. It as well feels more more natural/relaxing have the hand closed then opened.

I think i need to buy a bigger mouse for claw grip so my palm can rest on the mouse instead of the mousepad. I think that can solve my issues. Seems for me the healthiest grip.
 
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Higher DPI would probably help, as you don't need to move the mouse as much to move the pointer the same distance. 800DPI might even be a bit low, so it could be worth trying something a bit higher.

And if you are moving your hand substantially, you should try to avoid twisting your wrist back and forth too much. Controlling the mouse more with your fingertips for smaller movements and arm for larger movements might be better.
 
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spacejunk

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Thanks for your answer,
i cant find informations about which grip, shade is "healthier" but logical i think claw and fingertip should be healthier, because on palm grip the whole hand is deeper which provides more pressure on the wrist. It as well feels more more natural/relaxing have the hand closed then opened.

I think i need to buy a bigger mouse for claw grip so my palm can rest on the mouse instead of the mousepad. I think that can solve my issues. Seems for me the healthiest grip.
No problem. I too am predominantly a claw-grip user. I will usually have my hand positioned further back so most of the weight is on my palm. The main drawback to this is you have limited range of motion and instead are swivelling the mouse in a small cone. On the plus side it gives really good control for micro-adjustments.

I am not really sure which style is better for your hands/wrists, but I think it's okay to have your palm on the mouse pad, as long as it feels good for you. Just have to experiment with it I guess. To add to what Cryoburner said, palm-grip and claw-grip have different sensitivity requirements. Palm-grip is usually synonymous with low DPI settings as you have massive range of motion. Conversely, claw-grip needs high DPI to compensate for the lack of range and speed.

Be sure to update the thread with info on which mouse you picked and how it's working out for you.
 
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Nov 24, 2020
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Razer DeathAdder V2, Razer Viper, Logitech G PRO (not wireless), Fnatic Flick 2, Cooler Master MM710(overall cheap)
Those i can get at the moment for a good price (black friday), about 50€.

I dont know, probably i will go for Razer Viper, on many reviews it seems overall the best beside Glorious Model and Logitech G PRO. The mouse is one of the bigger sized ( Size chart ), lightweight and should work for all grips according what i have read. So if claw does not work i still can fingertip it, or even palm.
The only thing is they rate the mouse as M size but my hand is closely L size, but the "L sized" do weight mostly more then twice even tough they only have 1 cm more in widht and length.
 
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spacejunk

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Razer DeathAdder V2, Razer Viper, Logitech G PRO (not wireless), Fnatic Flick 2, Cooler Master MM710(overall cheap)
Those i can get at the moment for a good price (black friday), about 50€.

I dont know, probably i will go for Razer Viper, on many reviews it seems overall the best beside Glorious Model and Logitech G PRO. The mouse is one of the bigger sized ( Size chart ), lightweight and should work for all grips according what i have read. So if claw does not work i still can fingertip it, or even palm.
The only thing is they rate the mouse as M size but my hand is closely L size, but the "L sized" do weight mostly more then twice even tough they only have 1 cm more in widht and length.
Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but it seems like you are a claw-grip trying to force a transition to palm-grip. I'm not sure how successful that will be as your grip/style should come naturally.

I own the Deathadder Chroma, which appears to be identical in shape and size. I can tell you it's not a large mouse, at least not in contrast with most models I've used. It's also a palm-centric mouse design and one focused primarily on FPS games. I don't want to turn you off buying it, but let me say that the flanged main paddles force a certain finger position on you and for me it feels terrible when trying to claw-grip it. And quite simply, it does not make for a good MMORPG/RPG mouse.

The Viper also appears to fit in the same category. Palm-grip orientated, low-profile design with an emphasis on FPS performance. It also shares the same flanged paddle design.

I'm not saying these are bad mice, but just take into consideration that they are not orientated for either claw-grip or MMORPG usage. Also consider that they are all corded mice.

The G-pro looks okay, though it doesn't have any features that would suggest it's any better than the g300-s for your particular needs. It's also small, very small in fact.

I hope this doesn't sway your decision too much, but I caution you not to buy something simply because it's on sale or is popular in it's own category, And I stress the word "category" as this seems to be the most important factor for buying peripherals like mice.

I would urge you to do some research into the best models for MMORPG/RPG and general usage, possibly with the added stipulation that you want a claw-grip design. I hope you are happy with whatever you choose.
 
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Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but it seems like you are a claw-grip trying to force a transition to palm-grip. I'm not sure how successful that will be as your grip/style should come naturally.
Thanks, im thankful for your input.
Currently im fingertip and like to force to claw grip. Because on fingertip i let my palm rest on the mousepad instead on the mouse like on claw grip. So instead of moving my arm to move my mouse i always use my wrist do move it (Like that: Link to video). Its hard to stop this behavior, claw grip you automatically move the arm.

G300s: 113 x 72 x 40 (width is more like 55 not 72, just on the bottom 72 may true)
Viper: 126 x 57 x 37
Flick 2: 131 x 70 x 40
G Pro: 116 x 62 x 38
It looks like that if i try to claw mine with my bear hands =) (link to image) My old mouse seems to be made only for fingertip which i luckily was back there, i really just bought it because of the buttons on top xD (witouth any knowledge of grips, may before i even was a palm grip user i dont remember its past 7 years).
The problem with the G300s is you cant click the button on the edge, because of the border. With Viper that shouldnt be a problem. so i might get even 1 cm more in comparison to mine + 1,3cm.
At the moment i dont play a lot of mmorgps, most likely moba and fps, but may i start with a mmorpg soon. Though i dont really like those many buttons on the side.

But may you are right that there may be better ones for claw, i just dont know where to start. There are thousend of sites and all of them advice something different, aswell i dont have enough money to put in more then ~50€ (i need to buy it twice, for office and home).

@cryoburner oh i was already using around 800 dpi, mouse acceleration was checked and the speed was almost maxed in the windows settings. Now im on 1000 dpi witouth Windows messing with it, which feels similar like the speed i was using before. But i dont think id like to increase it above 1000.
 
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spacejunk

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Thanks, im thankful for your input.
Currently im fingertip and like to force to claw grip. Because on fingertip i let my palm rest on the mousepad instead on the mouse like on claw grip. So instead of moving my arm to move my mouse i always use my wrist do move it (Like that: Link to video). Its hard to stop this behavior, claw grip you automatically move the arm.

G300s: 113 x 72 x 40 (width is more like 55 not 72, just on the bottom 72 may true)
Viper: 126 x 57 x 37
Flick 2: 131 x 70 x 40
G Pro: 116 x 62 x 38
It looks like that if i try to claw mine with my bear hands =) (link to image) My old mouse seems to be made only for fingertip which i luckily was back there, i really just bought it because of the buttons on top xD (witouth any knowledge of grips, may before i even was a palm grip user i dont remember its past 7 years).
The problem with the G300s is you cant click the button on the edge, because of the border. With Viper that shouldnt be a problem. so i might get even 1 cm more in comparison to mine + 1,3cm.
At the moment i dont play a lot of mmorgps, most likely moba and fps, but may i start with a mmorpg soon. Though i dont really like those many buttons on the side.

But may you are right that there may be better ones for claw, i just dont know where to start. There are thousend of sites and all of them advice something different, aswell i dont have enough money to put in more then ~50€ (i need to buy it twice, for office and home).
Your grip is most unusual. That mouse looks entirely too small for you. Your hand looks like a giant spider trying to subdue a tiny insect lol. But is that position strictly a consequence of the small mouse or do you also do this with larger mice ?

I noticed that in the picture your forearm is elevated well above your hand. This in combination with your hand position might explain the discomfort you have been feeling. Your hand position takes the definition of claw-grip to a whole new level. It's hard to actually discern what your natural position is and what improvements need to be made, as it seems like your mouse has influenced that position more than anything. But I think it's safe to say that you would benefit from a larger mouse.

This is my own interpretation of claw-grip. My recommendations so far were based loosely off of this definition. But now I've seen your hand position, I'm kind of lost as to what would be better for you. As you can see my palm does not mount the mouse at all and there is plenty of real estate left at it's front.

I can only assume that your position will change with a larger mouse. So you appear to be on the right track with your objectives. And sorry I misunderstood what type of usage you had in mind. If FPS/MOBA is your bag, then maybe the Deathadder/Viper will serve you well. The only remaining mystery is how your grip/style will adjust to those style of mice.

I'll keep an eye out for anything that might interest you.
 
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Nov 24, 2020
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@spacejunk thank you very much. Sorry english is my 3 language so im not able to explain everything clearly but i try my best ;D.
Unluckily i cant say anything about how my style would change if i got a bigger mouse, i always had similar small mouse for atleast 10 years (many years g300 then g300s, earlier a little laptop mouse). At the beginning of my "computer career" i had a bigger one, classic shool logitech mouse, which changed when i moved to a Laptop (for years now back again to pc ;D).

In picture above i would demonstrate how it would look like if i was using the mouse with claw grip, but my style is fingertip like in the video. Im not sure my fingertip style is very unusual or ? I checked a few fingertip examples it does not look very different, but its hard to say on images. The only thing im worried about is that im not using the arm at all, the arm is fixed while my wrist move the mouse. If i need further distance i always pick the mouse up and reposition it (habit unluckily i will not be able to unlearn, witouth change to a newer style like claw i think).

Your style looks healthier then mine, thats sure.

Yeah though i have a good feeling about buying a bigger mouse. Just im not 100% sure about the Viper still. Because there are bigger ones with length 135mm and width 80mm. Not so sure if a model like that will be required with my hands. They aswell say the viper works for each grip (palm, fingertipp, claw) which sounds like "you can use it for all grips but it perfectly fits no grip".
 
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spacejunk

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@spacejunk thank you very much. Sorry english is my 3 language so im not able to explain everything clearly but i try my best ;D.
Unluckily i cant say anything about how my style would change if i got a bigger mouse, i always had similar small mouse for atleast 10 years (many years g300 then g300s, earlier a little laptop mouse). At the beginning of my "computer career" i had a bigger one, classic shool logitech mouse, which changed when i moved to a Laptop (for years now back again to pc ;D).

In picture above i would demonstrate how it would look like if i was using the mouse with claw grip, but my style is fingertip like in the video. Im not sure my fingertip style is very unusual or ? I checked a few fingertip examples it does not look very different, but its hard to say on images. The only thing im worried about is that im not using the arm at all, the arm is fixed while my wrist move the mouse. If i need further distance i always pick the mouse up and reposition it (habit unluckily i will not be able to unlearn, witouth change to a newer style like claw i think).

Your style looks healthier then mine, thats sure.

Yeah though i have a good feeling about buying a bigger mouse. Just im not 100% sure about the Viper still. Because there are bigger ones with length 135mm and width 80mm. Not so sure if a model like that will be required with my hands. They aswell say the viper works for each grip (palm, fingertipp, claw) which sounds like "you can use it for all grips but it perfectly fits no grip".
Heh, don't worry about it. Your English is a million times better than any foreign language I can speak.

I have found that there is one main design aspect I look for when deciding on mice these days, And that is the body shape. Over the years I concluded that the flat body mice do not suit my style of grip. Whether that is true for most claw-grip users I can't say, but it's the only point of reference I can give.

It will likely take you a few purchases for you to learn which style of mice fits your grip- An expensive lesson I have found. But once you figure out which shape/design works for you, it makes it easier going forward. In the image below I will try to illustrate why certain mice don't work for me personally. Hopefully that might help you in choosing yours.


The mice above do not work for me. The ones below are mice that worked well for me. But notice there is a distinct correlation in body shape between them.
View: https://imgur.com/ateBfzE


You can see these mice are relatively flat and have mostly neutral contours at the front end.
View: https://imgur.com/xyuBMlo


And these mice are all tall and fat mice with pronounced contours for gripping.
View: https://imgur.com/WvDvMm6


So it would seem that my particular grip prefers a pretty distinct set of design characteristics. I can then apply this to all future purchases. But for you it's more tricky as you have yet to find your preferred shape/design. Something that really only you can decide.

The only real similarity is that we are both claw-grip. Though I'm really not sure if that is enough to inform you which is best. All I can say is that I've had the best results with larger and taller mice that all seem to be a derivative of one particular design.

If at all possible, see if you can try out different shapes of mice, either at a friends place or at the office to get a feel for which one's feel better. At the moment I don't have any other solid recommendations for you. But I will keep looking. :)
 
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Nov 24, 2020
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Thanks for your input again @spacejunk .
I changed my mind, instead of following those 100 of "best claw mouse" blogs and sites, i started comparing all shapes of a few(i wasted for sure atleast 7 hours xD).

I came to the conclusion that a mouse with a humble on the back should be healthier and better for my case, then a more flat one like the razer Viper has. It should help keeping a healthy form, wrist more straight witouth bending down (no pressure on wrist).
Im not sure about height of front and back, if they should be the same or the front slightly higher. I feel like if the front is higher i could have a more straight wrist which leads to less pressure for fingers and wrist may.

So i came to the following models.
Logitech G Pro wireless (may the best fitting shape but to expensive)
SS Rival 310 (good deal, may second best, ergonomic form i dont know if thats better or dont, many claim ambidextrous is better)
SS Sensei 310 (good deal)
Endgear XM1 (a bit expensive)
SS Rival 3
Xtrfy M4 (a bit expensive)
 
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spacejunk

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Thanks for your input again @spacejunk .
I changed my mind, instead of following those 100 of "best claw mouse" blogs and sites, i started comparing all shapes of a few(i wasted for sure atleast 7 hours xD).

I came to the conclusion that a mouse with a humble on the back should be healthier and better for my case, then a more flat one like the razer Viper has. It should help keeping a healthy form, wrist more straight witouth bending down (no pressure on wrist).
Im not sure about height of front and back, if they should be the same or the front slightly higher. I feel like if the front is higher i could have a more straight wrist which leads to less pressure for fingers and wrist may.

So i came to the following models.
Logitech G Pro wireless (may the best fitting shape but to expensive)
SS Rival 310 (good deal, may second best, ergonomic form i dont know if thats better or dont, many claim ambidextrous is better)
SS Sensei 310 (good deal)
Endgear XM1 (a bit expensive)
SS Rival 3
Xtrfy M4 (a bit expensive)
Sounds good man. The SS rival 310 looks solid. The Sensei looks good too, but it seems people have been complaining about hitting the side buttons by accident on that one. The 310 also appears to have a better shape on the right side for claw-gripping.

The 310 looks similar in shape to the Rival 300, which I own. It's the white one in the image. And out of all those mice on the top level, the 300 feels the most comfortable for me. So the shape is pretty good imo.

I don't use the 300 because 1. it's corded 2. the action on the main paddles isn't good for the games I play and 3. I really don't like the forward/back button placement or feel. But the shape is a mix between a flat mouse and a tall ergonomic design. I can understand why it's so popular.
 
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spacejunk

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Did you settle on anything yet ?

I ordered the G604 and the Corsair Ironclaw wireless RGB yesterday. According to many the Ironclaw is extremely comfortable, but has problems with the scroll wheel. I believe I have the parts and tools to fix it if/when it breaks lol.

Also purchased a few mouse pads to replace the one I got for free while buying vaping products. I ordered the Coolermaster MP510, Zowie P-SR and the Glorious XL. I hope one of them is good. :)
 
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@spacejunk
Yeah i think i will go for the Rival 310 even tough many people reporting quality problems. Lets hope for the best, 40€ and go (need to watch a bit on my money at the moment ;D).
If i like it may i will buy a second one for the office anytime, if there is a sale again.

I prefer corded ones more. I just hope the side buttons are fine.

I really love my mousepad, its a very cheap china one for 10€ "Resin polymer" material. Very hard surface, but works so good for years. My mouse was never running so fine then like on that one. The fabric one does not hold any longer then a year for me =).
 
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spacejunk

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@spacejunk
Yeah i think i will go for the Rival 310 even tough many people reporting quality problems. Lets hope for the best, 40€ and go (need to watch a bit on my money at the moment ;D).
If i like it may i will buy a second one for the office anytime, if there is a sale again.

I prefer corded ones more. I just hope the side buttons are fine.

I really love my mousepad, its a very cheap china one for 10€ "Resin polymer" material. Very hard surface, but works so good for years. My mouse was never running so fine then like on that one. The fabric one does not hold any longer then a year for me =).
Just FYI modern wireless mice have the same or better response times than corded mice. So having a cord on your mouse is objectively worse by most accounts as it just adds drag, causes cable clutter and can restrict movement. The only positive thing is they are less expensive.

I often read that people who try wireless for the first time never go back to corded. It's like wearing no underwear, total freedom! :p
 
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@spacejunk Yeah i just dont like it to charge it everytime and running out of charge while ingame. One of my friends have a wireless mouse, every 2-3 times we meet in game his mouse runs out of charge xD. I dont remember to charge it at night probably (which for sure will happen more often) then i cant play or it happens the same like with my friend. At some point the battery gets worse aswell, where you maybe need to buy a new mouse (i usually dont change my setup, if my new mouse will hold 10 years, i will use it exactly for this time and will buy the same one after or an identical one) ? I dont know, i feel more freedom if i dont have to take care of my battery =).
Aswell i trust corded mouse more then wireless, a few years ago i got one for my tv box, that made me so angry i swore back there i will never buy one again xD. (small interruptions...) Probably today this wont be a issue anymore but this feeling will ever stay until i used one (maybe if i got money to waste).
 
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spacejunk

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@spacejunk Yeah i just dont like it to charge it everytime and running out of charge while ingame. One of my friends have a wireless mouse, every 2-3 times we meet in game his mouse runs out of charge xD. I dont remember to charge it at night probably (which for sure will happen more often) then i cant play or it happens the same like with my friend. At some point the battery gets worse aswell, where you maybe need to buy a new mouse (i usually dont change my setup, if my new mouse will hold 10 years, i will use it exactly for this time and will buy the same one after or an identical one) ? I dont know, i feel more freedom if i dont have to take care of my battery =).
Aswell i trust corded mouse more then wireless, a few years ago i got one for my tv box, that made me so angry i swore back there i will never buy one again xD. (small interruptions...) Probably today this wont be a issue anymore but this feeling will ever stay until i used one (maybe if i got money to waste).
Yeah that's a fair point. I guess it depends on the mouse and quality/capacity of the battery.

With my current mouse (Mx-master) it takes about 20 minutes to fully charge and lasts several days (14 hours use per day) Something else to consider is that a wireless mouse can never actually run out of power, as the charging lead powers the mouse while it's charging. I think the only mice that have that problem are one's that can only use a charging dock. Though modern wireless transmitters are much more efficient now. You can easily get a whole week from a single charge. And if it runs out, simply plug it in lol.

I know what you mean though. Older wireless mice typically had really crappy batteries that would degrade rapidly. But it seems things have improved a lot since then.
 
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The difference in accuracy and buttons is really a strong improvement in comparison to my old mouse.
So far i can tell im running fine with the Rival 310, i did played a bit less than before, but did not notice any pain at all.

Changing from fingertip to claw grip is hard battle, im atleast half as good in all games and overwhelmed, but it gets better from day to day. The pressure on my wrist feels less aswell.
About the shade i cant tell really much, maybe a bigger back would have been even more better like the g300pro wireless has i dont know(as i said i cant afford it at the moment, maybe sometimes later).
But overall im statisfied with the buy and think we hit very well.
Thanks for the help.
 
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