pay life Vs "Worship"

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

pretty sure thatthis question has come up before... but i don't know
the answer....

i have a deck that has muderous betrayal in it and it has worship.

i'm trying to figure out the "pay life" aspect vs the effect of the
worship.

i use the murderous betrayal to the point where i am at 1 life. if i
use it again will i die, or will worship keep me alive (providing i
meet the criteria that worship requires...)?

-thanks in advance,
-Cannibal-
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:

> pretty sure thatthis question has come up before... but i don't know
> the answer....
>
> i have a deck that has muderous betrayal in it and it has worship.

Murderous Betrayal
{B}{B}{B}
Enchantment
{B}{B}, Pay half your life rounded up: Destroy target nonblack creature.
It can't be regenerated.

Worship
{3}{W}
Enchantment
If you control a creature, damage that would reduce your life total to
less than 1 reduces it to 1 instead.

> i'm trying to figure out the "pay life" aspect vs the effect of the
> worship.

There is no relevance.

> i use the murderous betrayal to the point where i am at 1 life. if i
> use it again will i die, or will worship keep me alive (providing i
> meet the criteria that worship requires...)?

If you use it again, you will die. Half your life rounded up would be
1. Paying that reduces your life total to 0.

102.1. If a player's life total is 0 or less, he or she loses the game
the next time a player would receive priority. (This is a state-based
effect. See rule 420.)

I see nothing about Worship which might interfere with this process.
Worship only influences the consequences of DAMAGE.

Damage
Damage can be dealt to creatures and/or players.
Damage dealt to a player is subtracted from his or her life total.
Damage dealt to a creature stays on the permanent until end of
turn, even if it stops being a creature. A creature with damage greater
than or equal to its toughness has been dealt lethal damage and is
destroyed. (See rule 420, "State-Based Effects.") Damage doesn't alter a
creature's toughness. A noncreature permanent isn't affected by damage
(but if it becomes a creature again before the damage is removed, the
creature may be destroyed). During the cleanup step, all damage is
removed from permanents.
Costs and effects that read "lose life" or "pay life" don't deal
damage, and that loss of life can't be prevented or otherwise altered by
damage-prevention effects.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:
>pretty sure thatthis question has come up before... but i don't know
>the answer....
>
>i have a deck that has muderous betrayal in it and it has worship.
>
>i'm trying to figure out the "pay life" aspect vs the effect of the worship.

Worship doesn't do anything to stop life loss or life payment.

Worship doesn't even _prevent_ damage.

>i use the murderous betrayal to the point where i am at 1 life. if i
>use it again will i die, or will worship keep me alive (providing i
>meet the criteria that worship requires...)?

Worship doesn't say it will keep you alive.

What Worship says is that if _damage_ would reduce your life total to less than
1 (from being 1 or more), then your life total gets set to 1 instead.

A payment of life doesn't involve any damage at all, so is totally ignored
by Worship.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In article <slrnc9p5r2.6h2.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com>, David DeLaney
<dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:

> Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:
> >pretty sure thatthis question has come up before... but i don't know
> >the answer....
> >
> >i have a deck that has muderous betrayal in it and it has worship.
> >
> >i'm trying to figure out the "pay life" aspect vs the effect of the worship.
>
> Worship doesn't do anything to stop life loss or life payment.
>
> Worship doesn't even _prevent_ damage.
>
> >i use the murderous betrayal to the point where i am at 1 life. if i
> >use it again will i die, or will worship keep me alive (providing i
> >meet the criteria that worship requires...)?
>
> Worship doesn't say it will keep you alive.
>
> What Worship says is that if _damage_ would reduce your life total to less
> than
> 1 (from being 1 or more), then your life total gets set to 1 instead.
>
> A payment of life doesn't involve any damage at all, so is totally ignored
> by Worship.
>
> Dave

that's pretty much the way that i figured it but i wanted to make sure.
-thanks again,
-Cannibal-
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> > A payment of life doesn't involve any damage at all, so is totally
ignored
> > by Worship.
>
> that's pretty much the way that i figured it but i wanted to make sure.
> -thanks again,

I think you want to combo Platinum Angel with Betrayal instead. Once you
get down to 0 life, you can start killing stuff with Betrayal for just BB.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In article <nO7nc.9186$uN4.2343@clgrps12>, Chris Wiegert
<cwiegert@telus.net> wrote:

> > > A payment of life doesn't involve any damage at all, so is totally
> ignored
> > > by Worship.
> >
> > that's pretty much the way that i figured it but i wanted to make sure.
> > -thanks again,
>
> I think you want to combo Platinum Angel with Betrayal instead. Once you
> get down to 0 life, you can start killing stuff with Betrayal for just BB.
>
>
yeah... but wouldn't i still have to have SOME life in order to spend
it? i mean... i know that half of nothing is nothing (even rounded
up...) but it doesn't seem right to me that i could spend life points
that i do not have. it would be like spending mana that i do not
have...

-Cannibal-
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:
>Chris Wiegert <cwiegert@telus.net> wrote:
>> I think you want to combo Platinum Angel with Betrayal instead. Once you
>> get down to 0 life, you can start killing stuff with Betrayal for just BB.
>
>yeah... but wouldn't i still have to have SOME life in order to spend
>it? i mean... i know that half of nothing is nothing (even rounded
>up...) but it doesn't seem right to me that i could spend life points
>that i do not have. it would be like spending mana that i do not have...

Well, you can't spend life points you do not have, that's true.

But: what is "half your life" when your life total is 0? ...That's right, 0.
And you can -always- pay 0 life (or 0 mana) if something asks you to.

(Even if your life total is negative, if something asks you to pay half your
life you can satisfy it by paying 0; this is because life total, power, or
toughness that are less than zero are treated as zero for purposes other than
-changing- it.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sun, 9 May 2004, Cannibal wrote:

> In article <nO7nc.9186$uN4.2343@clgrps12>, Chris Wiegert
> <cwiegert@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > > A payment of life doesn't involve any damage at all, so is totally
> > ignored
> > > > by Worship.
> > >
> > > that's pretty much the way that i figured it but i wanted to make sure.
> > > -thanks again,
> >
> > I think you want to combo Platinum Angel with Betrayal instead. Once you
> > get down to 0 life, you can start killing stuff with Betrayal for just BB.
> >
> >
> yeah... but wouldn't i still have to have SOME life in order to spend
> it? i mean... i know that half of nothing is nothing (even rounded
> up...) but it doesn't seem right to me that i could spend life points
> that i do not have. it would be like spending mana that i do not
> have...

It would be like paying Welding Jar's cost with no mana...

David
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0405091643470.7617@galjas.cs.vu.nl>, David de
Kloet <dskloet@cs.vu.nl> wrote:

> On Sun, 9 May 2004, Cannibal wrote:

> > yeah... but wouldn't i still have to have SOME life in order to spend
> > it? i mean... i know that half of nothing is nothing (even rounded
> > up...) but it doesn't seem right to me that i could spend life points
> > that i do not have. it would be like spending mana that i do not
> > have...
>
> It would be like paying Welding Jar's cost with no mana...
>
> David

good point... hadn't thought of it like that...
-Cannibal-