PC Cases - what pisses me off...

[old_rager]

You know, you see this really nice PC case that you'd like (for me, it's the Corsair Obsidian 900D which was released in 2013 - http://www.corsair.com/en-us/obsidian-series-900d-super-tower-case). You want to buy that new Thread Ripper CPU and a TR4 eATX motherboard and... You know how it goes. But then you see the case's IO port's being 4 x USB 2 and 2 x USB 3, and you think, "I love the case's design and it can take all these HDD's, etc, but do I want my new whiz bang custom built PC to be limited to 4 x USB 2 ports?" Like do I even want USB 2 to be present on my PC - No bloody way!!! Hey, even the new-ish Phanteks Entho Elite (http://www.phanteks.com/Enthoo-Elite.html) has cause for concern. A very nice case indeed (not enough HDD for me personally). Great design, RGB lighting, great IO support, except, the HDMI port is limited to 2.0 with HDMI 2.1 now starting to emerge...

Where I'm going with this is, why can't PC case manufacturer's make the technology components (such as IO) to be modular and therefore, upgradeable by design? I can then get the bare bones of what I really want - and can keep that bare bones for many years to come whilst modifying the guts (inclusive of the PC case's IO ports) as and when I like. If the case of my choice was upgradable, I'd have had the PC of my dreams 6 months ago - but now I am left to wait... Very sad indeed... 🙁

 

[lumineZ]

Know the feeling and the answer is pretty easy to give

"LOOK HERE!!! A brand new case with this and that support!! sell your old one so YOU can take part in the future!!!"

So instead of them making 5 bucks by selling an USB hub they make 50 bucks selling a new case.

 

[geofelt]

The case IS upgradeable.
There are many front bays into which you can install any kind of USB devices you want.
Plus there are add in cards for the motherboard.

That is a very nice case and it has modern airflow.

 

[Karadjgne]

4x USB2 and 2x USB3 ports on a CASE is Alot. Most cases only carry 2x2 with mic/headphone jack at best. And that's only for the front/top. The motherboard being responsible for all the rest of the connections. As to being expandable, the 900d is basically limited by the amount of motherboard headers, pcie x1, Sata, USB2 and 3 etc as to how many more USB ports you can install in the optical/drive 5¼" bays.

Haven't seen a CASE yet with hdmi ports. Motherboards yes, pointless really with dedicated gpus, but not a CASE.

 

[old_rager]

The case IS upgradeable.
There are many front bays into which you can install any kind of USB devices you want.
Plus there are add in cards for the motherboard.

That is a very nice case and it has modern airflow.

I agree in some way - but maybe I'm a bit fussy. If I'm going to invest say approx. $10K AUD in a custom built PC (it will be running 80TB in raid 6 array), I'd like to think that I could swap out the front IO when it becomes obsolete and replace it with an upgraded IO panel. It can be proprietary and sell at a premium as far as I'm concerned - but when a technology (like USB 2) becomes antiquated, should I have to wait 5 years for a case upgrade (as per the Corsair Obsidian 900D in my situation)? Another alternative is that Corsair (and other case manufacturers) design the IO plate to be modular (like they do with HDD cages today) and provide an upgrade plate maybe every 1-2 years so that people have the option of keeping their case technology relatively current. This means Corsair would get to sell my and fastidious PC owners can have their PC at the most current level possible...

Just a thought...

 

[old_rager]

4x USB2 and 2x USB3 ports on a CASE is Alot. Most cases only carry 2x2 with mic/headphone jack at best. And that's only for the front/top. The motherboard being responsible for all the rest of the connections. As to being expandable, the 900d is basically limited by the amount of motherboard headers, pcie x1, Sata, USB2 and 3 etc as to how many more USB ports you can install in the optical/drive 5¼" bays.

Haven't seen a CASE yet with hdmi ports. Motherboards yes, pointless really with dedicated gpus, but not a CASE.

Hey Karadjgne,

My current case has 2 x USB 2 and 2 x USB 3 ports – with one of the USB 3 ports being buggered. If the IO plate was replaceable, I could fix that busted USB 3 port. It’s also not unusual for me to have 3 x USB 3 portable HDD’s plugged into my system at one time when copying things for mates when they come over – and I have to say, it really is painful having to wait on USB 2 data transfer rates. So even if I buy my Obsidian 900D now, I will still primarily have this same problem when it comes to the USB 2 ports. The motherboards I’ve been looking at upgrading to have between 3 to 6 USB 3/3.1 (Gen 1 & 2) internal USB header support. The Obsidian 900D just can’t cut it – but has been rated as one of the best cases on the market ATM (in conjunction with Phanteks’ Entho Elite).

With respect to cases with HDMI ports on the front panel, the Entho Elite that I mentioned in my original post has a HDMI 2.0 port on the front - http://www.phanteks.com/Enthoo-Elite.html. The purpose for this is so that people wanting to move into VR can have easy access to the HDMI port for their headsets. I recently purchased a Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Aorus Xtreme Edition 11GB Video Card in preparation for my new build. It runs 2 x HDMI 2.0b ports on the back panel and 1 x HDMI 2.0b port on the front for the specific purpose of plugging into the front header for those cases that support it. In addition to VR, having a HDMI port on the front of a case makes it easy to plug in a 2 display for debugging purposes – something which I will be having to do tomorrow.

Anyways, just some thoughts…

 

[J_E_D_70]

Like geo said, you just put a usb 3 expansion in an optical cage slot. The case manufacturer’s job is to sell more cases.

Why might you be putting 80tb in a pc? That’s infinitely more suited to an external NAS.

 

[Karadjgne]

Goes in the back

Goes in the front

There's also expansion cards to turn pcie x1 into 2x usb3 headers, so depending on your mobo you could easily put 24 or so usb3 ports right in front of your pc for mate's easy access at usb3.0 speeds without going through hubs. The 900D has 5x 5¼ bays, plenty of room.

 

[USAFRet]

(it will be running 80TB in raid 6 array),

For me, that would live in the dedicated NAS box.
Multiple LAN ports, multiple USB 3.1/Thunderbolt, etc, etc.

Rather than in the actual workstation.

 

[old_rager]

(it will be running 80TB in raid 6 array),

For me, that would live in the dedicated NAS box.
Multiple LAN ports, multiple USB 3.1/Thunderbolt, etc, etc.

Rather than in the actual workstation.

Hey USAFRet,

My main storage requirements are driven by my desire to have an extensive movie collection. Back in October last year, we purchased a 4K Samsung Q7F and as a result, have amassed over 12TB of just 4K content – not including the plethora of existing 1080p content. I use the PC mainly as a Plex Media Server in addition to it being my main PC. There’s currently no NAS capable of transcoding 4K content on the fly. Having said that, my existing 5-year-old PC can’t even play 4K HDR content directly to the Samsung display without juddering – thus the desire to perform a big overhaul. Currently I’m running 8 x 3TB WD Red drives connected to an Adaptec 7805 raid card (https://storage.microsemi.com/en-us/support/raid/sas_raid/sas-7805/) running raid 6 – but have completely run out of room. I’ve checked that my existing raid card can run today’s 10TB drives and as such, want to migrate the card with existing drives into a new PC and use the extra storage space in an updated Obsidian 900D to use to migrate the raid card over to 10TB drives. The motherboards I’ve been looking at can carry between 6 to 8 drives over SATA 6Gbs directly from the board. So yes, I could possibly get away with a separate NAS, but by using my PC as a NAS server, I don’t have the additional cost of a separate 8 bay NAS. Hope this makes some sense.

With respect to other comments Karadjgne, J_E_D_70 and Geofelt, I know I can put in USB 3 expansion cards for the back and also put in USB 3 header units in the front, but to be honest:
1. I don’t want to use a front expansion slot for USB 3 connectors. My current PC has already used up 1 expansion slot for a fan controller as my existing case is running 6 Noctura fans,
2. I also have a Blue Ray optical drive in another expansion slot,
3. If I’m gonna use external expansion slots, I’d rather use them for internal HDD bay support, and
4. I just don’t want to have USB 2 ports on my whiz bang new PC.

I’m not sure, but most people mustn’t be like me. It seems that people would rather consume expansion slots rather than have manufacturers build modular IO plates. Hey, manufacturers could even have multiple face plates depending on your individual needs – and the plates could be provided as optional upgrades. Well I kind of thought it was a good idea – was just putting it out there to see if anyone thought it might be a good idea too. But I am thankful for everyone’s feedback!!!

 

[USAFRet]

There’s currently no NAS capable of transcoding 4K content on the fly.

https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/ts-453a
"Supports hardware decoding and transcode 4K (H.264) videos on-the-fly or offline"

From 3 yrs ago:
"As 4K TV is poised to enter the mainstream, the 4K UHD-ready TVS-x71 series comes at the right time to allow users to enjoy the ultimate multimedia storage and playback experience. "
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/news/2015/qnap-launches-tvs-x71-series-turbo-vnas-with-4k-ultra-high-definition-video-playback-and-transcoding

"Synology's new DS418play NAS lets you stream two 4K videos simultaneously"
https://betanews.com/2017/09/29/synology-ds418play/


Now...do they actually do that? Unknown. But don't discount them so easily.
I have a TS-453A, but cannot decisively verify the 4k, because I don't have a 4k screen.

I’m not sure, but most people mustn’t be like me.

80TB of always online storage?
No. You are out on the hairy edge.

 

[old_rager]

There’s currently no NAS capable of transcoding 4K content on the fly.

https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/ts-453a
"Supports hardware decoding and transcode 4K (H.264) videos on-the-fly or offline"

From 3 yrs ago:
"As 4K TV is poised to enter the mainstream, the 4K UHD-ready TVS-x71 series comes at the right time to allow users to enjoy the ultimate multimedia storage and playback experience. "
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/news/2015/qnap-launches-tvs-x71-series-turbo-vnas-with-4k-ultra-high-definition-video-playback-and-transcoding

"Synology's new DS418play NAS lets you stream two 4K videos simultaneously"
https://betanews.com/2017/09/29/synology-ds418play/


Now...do they actually do that? Unknown. But don't discount them so easily.
I have a TS-453A, but cannot decisively verify the 4k, because I don't have a 4k screen.

I’m not sure, but most people mustn’t be like me.

80TB of always online storage?
No. You are out on the hairy edge.

Hey USAFRnet,

Thanks for the info…

When it comes to streaming, what I’ve been able to determine is if your video is in MP4 format and your audio is in AAC format, then 4K streaming is no problem as it’s just pass through (which I can personally confirm). If the video is in MP4 and the audio is in say, AC3, then both the video and audio will be transcoded (and not just the audio as you think would be the case). I question the QNAP claim that it can transcode 4K on the fly when the processor of the NAS has a CPU passmark of 1702 (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+N3160+%40+1.60GHz), whereas Plex advises that you need a CPU passmark of 2000 for 10Mbps/1080p streaming (see the Plex employee MovieFan.Plex response here - https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/209432/transcoding-4k-requirements). When it comes to 4K transcoding, you are at least looking at a CPU pass mark of 8,000 (in the post he says 16,000 – or nearly double for H265). JJRJ1 further down in the last link says his I7 with a passmark of 9K buffers terribly and Warmogerx says his CPU I7 980X with a CPU passmark of 15,200 buffers horribly within 15 seconds. According to the Plex supported NAS guide (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MfYoJkiwSqCXg8cm5-Ac4oOLPRtCkgUxU0jdj3tmMPc/edit#gid=314388488), there’s no mention of any NAS devices that currently support 4K transcoding – and even QNAPs own Plex NAS devices (that run Plex) can only do 1080p max – with no mention of 4K (https://www.qnap.com/solution/plex-best-nas/en-us/).

So I guess there’s 4K streaming, and then there’s 4K STREAMING!!! Hey, my current CPU I can tell you from experience, that trying to transcode 4K with HDR10, you need a really powerful setup – which is why I’m looking at getting a Threadripper 1950x which has a 26,000 CPU passmark. I’ve even tried converting my 4K material in MP4/AAC and it takes 13hours to do 1 movie – and it rarely succeeds as it hammers my CPU too much and it overheats and crashes my system nearly every time. It also means I can’t use my PC when converting, so really I am stuck whichever way I go ATM… 🙁

With respect to me saying I mustn't be normal (which I know I am not 😉, it was in relation to wanting to have modular IO upgradeable panels on my PC case - not the amount of storage I will be moving towards in the future (as I only have 24TB ATM in raid 6 - so 18TB of useable space).