Question PC crashes during games. Black screen and fans maxed out!

[Jblaze24]

Hi i am pc noob trying to troubleshoot gaming pc so any info will help.

PC crashes when gaming but works fine when browsing web, streaming movies and everything else.
When i first start playing each day it will play for maybe hour then crash. Black screen and fans maxed out. pc stays on and i can still hear the game like normal. I have to hold down power button to restart.

After the hour when i first get on and it crashes that 1st time it will consistently crash within 5 minutes after restarting pc and playing game.
Seems like over heating since it takes awhile to crash then keeps crashing but the temps are fine as far as i know. Unless the max temp cutoff is set really low on CPU or GPU? MSI afterburner says max temp is 84 for GPU. Had the rig 2 years no problems till this started slowly about month ago.

I check temps during game with hwmonitor and CPU is 50 degrees and GPU is 65 degrees
i uninstalled and reinstalled windows and nvidea and updated all drivers so don't think it software because its not crashing at start or randomly. Only after i have been playing for like hour then keeps going black screen and maxing fans.

I upgraded PSU from 650 to 750 and still crashing same exact way. so just trying to troubleshoot but like i said i am pc noob.
I guess i just have to replace 1 component at time but don't really know where to go because the temps are fine as far as i can tell on CPU and GPU.
I ran CINEBENCH 30 minute stability test on CPU 100% maxed to try to make it crash like it does during games but it completed test without crashing. Guessing since it didn't crash i can rule out CPU? The game only runs 40% CPU. I'll post the results below:

Mainboard Max temp: 32
CPU Max temp: 91
CPU MAX package temp: 94
CPU Max core temp: 94
CPU Max voltage: 1.241
CPU Core Clocks: 4800MHz
SSD Max temp: 33

Graphics card had 3 different temp listings: GPU: 51 Memory: 61 Hotspot:63 (sidenote: GPU hotspot does get to 80 degrees when it starts crashing but the GPU temp stays in between 60-65 on both Hwmonitor and afterburner.

System: 8core i7 9700k 3.6GHz No Overclock RTX 2080 super
CINEBENCH score: 8626

I don't know anything about numbers or temps just posted the results to try to help but any info would be appreciated.
Like i said i'm pc noob but common sense tells me since it made it through the 30 minute test maxed out at 100% that it is probably not the CPU. It does have new thermal paste too. Just don't know where to look next. PC also crashes on other games.
Is there way to stress test graphics card?

 

[rakinar2]

You can try stress test using something like "3D Mark". I guess that's an issue with the game, GPU or RAM. Not 100% sure.

 

[Phaaze88]

"Black screen and fans maxed out. pc stays on and i can still hear the game like normal."
Sounds like drivers. Run Display Driver Uninstaller, remove the previous Nvidia driver(as well as AMD, if one was used) and update the gpu driver again. If it still behaves like that, I'm not going to be of much help after.
IF you are running anything like Driver Easy/Booster, or any program that offers to update your drivers for you that didn't come from the manufacturers themselves(Geforce Experience and Radeon Software for example), then get rid of it and update all the drivers manually.

I upgraded PSU from 650 to 750 and still crashing same exact way.

You have to be more specific, especially when it comes to power supplies. Make and model is necessary so others can look them up to see how good/bad they are, or they may already be familiar with the unit(s) in question.


Cinebench doesn't put the same kind of stress on the psu that a gpu does. Gaming gpu loads are one of the hardest loads psus have to deal with.

"Is there way to stress test graphics card?"
Not much beats the games you were already playing...

 

[Jblaze24]

I tested 3 different games and it crashes on all 3. I don't know much about RAM but task manager says i am using 23% and have 12GBS free memory. I will try to stress test graphics card.

 

[Jblaze24]

"Black screen and fans maxed out. pc stays on and i can still hear the game like normal."
Sounds like drivers. Run Display Driver Uninstaller, remove the previous Nvidia driver(as well as AMD, if one was used) and update the gpu driver again. If it still behaves like that, I'm not going to be of much help after.
IF you are running anything like Driver Easy/Booster, or any program that offers to update your drivers for you that didn't come from the manufacturers themselves(Geforce Experience and Radeon Software for example), then get rid of it and update all the drivers manually.


You have to be more specific, especially when it comes to power supplies. Make and model is necessary so others can look them up to see how good/bad they are, or they may already be familiar with the unit(s) in question.


Cinebench doesn't put the same kind of stress on the psu that a gpu does. Gaming gpu loads are one of the hardest loads psus have to deal with.

"Is there way to stress test graphics card?"
Not much beats the games you were already playing...

I already uninstalled and reinstalled and updated windows and Nvidea. still crashes during games. The PSU is Seasonic Focus GX750 Gold

 

[Phaaze88]

I can take it that you aren't using any 3rd party apps to update drivers?

Is there a secondary PC that you can try the gpu in?

The PSU is Seasonic Focus GX750 Gold

That's one - I assume is the newest - so what was the other one?

 

[Jblaze24]

I can take it that you aren't using any 3rd party apps to update drivers?

Is there a secondary PC that you can try the gpu in?


That's one - I assume is the newest - so what was the other one?

Not using 3rd party apps to update. Just windows 10 and GEForce.

Do not have secondary pc.

Monitor is:
ASUS TUF Gaming VG259QM 24.5” Monitor, 1080P Full HD (1920 x 1080), Fast IPS, 280Hz, G-SYNC Compatible, Extreme Low Motion Blur Sync,1ms, DisplayHDR 400, Eye Care, DisplayPort HDMI BLACK

I run the game low-medium settings 1080p with V-sync turned off. Monitor is configured for G-ysnc in nvidia contol panel. I turned V-ysnc on and it worked for to days in a row then started crashing again. Was strange thought it was fixed but Could have been coincidence.

I did run quick stress test on GPU with Heavan benchmark for 5 minutes on high quality settings, Extreme tessellation, and 8x anti-aliasing. It had high fps and didn't crash. Temp was 78 degrees with 96% usage rate.

I will test with ultra settings and let it run for 30 minutes and see what happens.

I also tested by moving core and memory clock down -200 MHz in MSI afterburner and it still crashed.

 

[Phaaze88]

I'm familiar with black screens to fans ramping being hardware related(psu to gpu), but then you mention in game audio still running - that's software/drivers.
Running an old sound card with an outdated driver[personal experience]? Perhaps there's another device not mentioned in a similar scenario?

I run the game low-medium settings 1080p with V-sync turned off. Monitor is configured for G-ysnc in nvidia contol panel. I turned V-ysnc on and it worked for to days in a row then started crashing again. Was strange thought it was fixed but Could have been coincidence.

Or there was a perfectly timed software update that broke your settings. :/
Are you getting really high fps when these crashes happen? It gets absurd in game menus.

 

[Jblaze24]

I'm familiar with black screens to fans ramping being hardware related(psu to gpu), but then you mention in game audio still running - that's software/drivers.
Running an old sound card with an outdated driver[personal experience]? Perhaps there's another device not mentioned in a similar scenario?



Or there was a perfectly timed software update that broke your settings. :/
Are you getting really high fps when these crashes happen? It gets absurd in game menus.

I don't know what sound card is. no speakers in monitor. I use turtlebeach's plugged into pc. Never had any sound issue's. It only happens in games. is sound card game related?
FPS is always smooth. No spikes, just crash.

You Speaking of the audio still goin has me thinking. The pc stays on like normal as far as power. Fans still on( which go to max) ,RGB lights still on, i Do have to hold power button down to restart though.

When the crash happens it goes black screen, fans go to max, then I panic and turn it off.

Just thinking though the audio doesn't skip a beat when it crashes. I can still hear what is going on around me(game explosions) and the commentator in game still talking like normal.
I can jump around and still hear myself jumping like the game is still going.

The screen doesn't actually freeze. It goes black then say's "no display port detected " then goes black again and stays black. (same as it does when you shut it off with power button or shutdown the pc). It's almost as if I could just unplug monitor and plug it back in and continue playing but i have never tried that. I just panic and turn off pc because the fans go max the same time I get the black screen and it freaks me out.

It isn't overheating. I passed 2 tests for CPU running 100% and it never crashed. (CINEBENCH and XTU) One said excellent and other said above average. Also tested GPU with Heaven Benchmark at ultra settings with no crash. Max GPU temp was 77 degrees

To make 100% sure it wasn't overheating, I re- installed a game that I used to play that I know max's out CPU and GPU at same time.
The Hunter Call of The Wild. Everyone on google also said that game max's out their CPU and GPU.

CPU and GPU were both running 95-100% capacity whole time. It's open world game. I ran around sprinting doing 360's for ten minutes straight trying to make it crash but it didn't.
Within 5 minutes GPU was 77degrees and CPU was 103degrees and I played 5 more minutes doing 360's and temps stayed at 77 and 103 with no crash. FPS staying in between 150-160 whole time.

Also did 5 minute memory stress test. It had like 20 messages saying CPU was throttled. It would throttle CPU like every few seconds. Not sure what that means but said it passed and had green checkmark.

Also speaking of other device's. I play all games with wired Xbox elite 2 controller. Never play with M&K. I disconnected xbox controller from usb and played with M&K and it still crashed. I have seen it crash when the game is just sitting at menu when i'm not even at computer so I don't think it could be the controller or mouse.

 

[Phaaze88]

I don't know what sound card is.

These things: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/sound-card/


"I can still hear what is going on around me(game explosions) and the commentator in game still talking like normal.
I can jump around and still hear myself jumping like the game is still going."
Driver.

"Also tested GPU with Heaven Benchmark at ultra settings with no crash."
Heaven Benchmark is a bit dated. Their more recent Superposition benchmark may trigger a crash.

"The Hunter Call of The Wild. Everyone on google also said that game max's out their CPU and GPU.

CPU and GPU were both running 95-100% capacity whole time. It's open world game. I ran around sprinting doing 360's for ten minutes straight trying to make it crash but it didn't.
Within 5 minutes GPU was 77degrees and CPU was 103degrees and I played 5 more minutes doing 360's and temps stayed at 77 and 103 with no crash. FPS staying in between 150-160 whole time."
Hmm, probably can't do any big explosions in that kind of game - those are a bit harder to do. Still suspecting driver... maybe this game doesn't use the right set, if that makes any sense.

"Also did 5 minute memory stress test. It had like 20 messages saying CPU was throttled. It would throttle CPU like every few seconds. Not sure what that means but said it passed and had green checkmark."
Memory stress test?
Cpu thermal throttled? Cpu power throttled[typically happens when the motherboard VRM overheats]?

Also speaking of other device's. I play all games with wired Xbox elite 2 controller. Never play with M&K. I disconnected xbox controller from usb and played with M&K and it still crashed. I have seen it crash when the game is just sitting at menu when i'm not even at computer so I don't think it could be the controller or mouse.

Xbox game bar and game mode are disabled, right?

 

[Jblaze24]

Xbox game bar and game mode are disabled, right?

No... just checked and they are both enabled.

I disabled game bar a few days ago so that is strange that it is back on. I've never messed with game mode. I stay signed in on the same windows profile and i'm the only one that use's pc. Maybe I needed to save the setting but don't think it gave me option I think you just turn it off and on.

I did notice an error in my cloud drive that said "GE Force sync error, Folder does not have permissions to access"

There were 3 accounts. My main account that I stay signed into, Guest account, and Administrator account. I right clicked the folder, went to properties, security, then changed folder access to "Allow Everyone "and it synced and is up to date now. Haven't tested it yet though.

I also tried to manually update every driver in device manger and they were all up to date accept 2 that needed to update.

Com port1 driver
Nvidia USB Type-C Port Policy Controller driver

Windows and GEFORCE are up to date. I will test now and see if the 2 driver updates or cloud sync changed anything.

If that doesn't work I will turn off the game bar and game mode then test.

 

[Jblaze24]

Cpu thermal throttled? Cpu power throttled[typically happens when the motherboard VRM overheats]?

I will run the memory test again on XTU and check the motherboard temp when it's throttling. don't think it goes past 40 but will double check.

I haven't checked motherboard temp in games though but I feel like since it didn't crash doing the stress tests with CPU at 94 for 30 minutes and then game test at 103 for 10 minutes that it is not an overheating issue. I will check it out though.

 

[Phaaze88]

A recent Windows Update may have reset your settings.
The Turtle Beach headset has its own driver, right? How about updating that one through their site.


By the way, there are numerous thermal sensors across the motherboard, and what they are usually isn't specified, so it's not that simple. The easiest way to monitor motherboard VRM throttling is with a real time graph, like XTU lets you do, but have it watching all cores.
A surefire sign of VRM throttling is frequencies below 1ghz. Even when cpu cores are thermal throttling, they don't drop down THAT low.

 

[Jblaze24]

A recent Windows Update may have reset your settings.
The Turtle Beach headset has its own driver, right? How about updating that one through their site.


By the way, there are numerous thermal sensors across the motherboard, and what they are usually isn't specified, so it's not that simple. The easiest way to monitor motherboard VRM throttling is with a real time graph, like XTU lets you do, but have it watching all cores.
A surefire sign of VRM throttling is frequencies below 1ghz. Even when cpu cores are thermal throttling, they don't drop down THAT low.

Thanks, I will check those numbers and wasn't aware you could update the headphones but will do that to.

 

[Jblaze24]

[

By the way, there are numerous thermal sensors across the motherboard, and what they are usually isn't specified, so it's not that simple. The easiest way to monitor motherboard VRM throttling is with a real time graph, like XTU lets you do, but have it watching all cores.
A surefire sign of VRM throttling is frequencies below 1ghz. Even when cpu cores are thermal throttling, they don't drop down THAT low.

I did the memory stress test again. The VRM didn't thermal throttle.

It was the CPU power throttling. Every 15-30 seconds. Ghz was 4.35-4.60 Memory speed was 2667

Motherboard temp dropped from 33-29 during test. CPU was around 1.117 V. It is stock CPU at 3.6 GHz no overclock so don't know how it was getting 4.6 unless test just auto overclocks

 

[Jblaze24]

Just loaded game up, went into kitchen, came back and it was crashed. Black screen fans spinning. not hot all. it always happens when the game is on.

I already uninstalled game and checked game integrity in steam and it was fine. no one else I know has problems with the game.

I unplugged monitor and plugged back in but it said no signal. tried different display port and nothing. I could try using hdmi cables I guess but I don't think its connection because I can shake cables on monitor and nothing happens. I even shook the connection on graphic card from PSU and nothing happened.

i will try turning off the Xbox game bar and game mode and see what happens

 

[Phaaze88]

Ghz was 4.35-4.60

That's not power throttling behavior. It's the dropping below 1ghz thing I mentioned earlier.
I don't see anything wrong here.

It is stock CPU at 3.6 GHz no overclock so don't know how it was getting 4.6 unless test just auto overclocks

It essentially does auto OC itself - that's what Intel Turbo Boost does, pushing past the base clock. The max boost normally scales based on how many cores are active at a time.
The resting cores should idle at lower clocks to save power - except if C-states were disabled, but then Turbo Boost supposedly doesn't work right when that's done.



Recent post: Run 3D Mark Timespy, Firestrike, and Unigine Superposition. See if they crash. You can't make the first 2 apps loop without paying, but maybe something will still happen in the free versions.
If this is a driver/software problem, it's going to be hell narrow down - that DDU didn't fix it is a bad sign.
Try the HDMI cable anyway.

 

[Jblaze24]

Recent post: Run 3D Mark Timespy, Firestrike, and Unigine Superposition. See if they crash. You can't make the first 2 apps loop without paying, but maybe something will still happen in the free versions.
If this is a driver/software problem, it's going to be hell narrow down - that DDU didn't fix it is a bad sign.
Try the HDMI cable anyway.

I turned off Xbox game bar and game mode and it crashed 5 minutes later.

The case fans were spinning normal. it is the GPU fans that are revved up. I let it sit for like 5 minutes and it stayed like that till I shut it off.

I'm goin to test without headphones then try moving up core clocks in Afterburner.

I saw post with guy having same exact problem that said he moved core clocks up a little and it completely went away

 

[Jblaze24]

Recent post: Run 3D Mark Timespy, Firestrike, and Unigine Superposition. See if they crash. You can't make the first 2 apps loop without paying, but maybe something will still happen in the free versions.

UPDATE: You were right! Guess Heaven Benchmark is sh.t! I bought the 3D Mark from steam and it crashed twice in a row within 15 seconds both times. Same exact crash, Black screen and fans maxing.

Tested different settings with MSI afterburner adjusting the Voltage and core clocks up and down but still crashed within 15 seconds.

Then I tried another setting on MSI Afterburner called " Memory clock MHz" You can adjust from 0 to +2000MHz. I adjusted to +500MHz, Ran 3DMark again and it didn't crash.

Ran it again and still didn't crash. It Said that I had good score. The graphics card score was 12,100. Average was 10,850 best was 12,800.

Seems like that was the problem but I have to test in game. Still just temporary fix. I don't even know what memory that is? I get confused with the different ones. Guessing I need bigger memory sticks but it says I have 12Gb free.

I'm Novice. Is the " Memory clock MHz" on after burner that I adjusted to +500MHz the Graphic cards memory?

 

[Phaaze88]

Is the " Memory clock MHz" on after burner that I adjusted to +500MHz the Graphic cards memory?

Yes. Afterburner is not capable of adjusting your system memory parameters.
It's normal for some system memory to be in use - impossible for it all to be free.

Then I tried another setting on MSI Afterburner called " Memory clock MHz" You can adjust from 0 to +2000MHz. I adjusted to +500MHz, Ran 3DMark again and it didn't crash.

Ran it again and still didn't crash. It Said that I had good score. The graphics card score was 12,100. Average was 10,850 best was 12,800.

Seems like that was the problem but I have to test in game.

Yes, you do need to test further. The increase in gpu memory clock stopping crashes is bloody weird.
It's not as flexible as core clock - you can increase/decrease this parameter, but that's it. The voltage going to it is fixed... so then the memory error correction must be kicking in, and the more errors that fixes, the lower performance is... [as well as not being stable]
But if it's crashing on default speed, you're not going to be able to compare.
Part in red: take that with a grain of salt. It has been skewed due to various conditions - heavy OCs, bad OCs, hot systems, etc. Ok to use as a sort of reference, but don't take it to heart.

 

[Jblaze24]

Yes, you do need to test further. The increase in gpu memory clock stopping crashes is bloody weird.

I ran the 3d mark a few more times with no crashes but am gonna go test in game.

Had a question about the memory. When I did the XTU Memory stress test it kept power throttling the CPU every 15 seconds Which is around the same time frame that the game crashes in 3d mark. Is there some kind of relation?

Also the game that it crashes the most in is destiny 2. The crashes started happening a few weeks after the newest season started.

 

[Phaaze88]

You say power throttling, but I didn't see a post saying it was going below 1ghz, which is real power throttling. Bouncing around between the max core clock and 1.2ghz is normal - on balanced power plan, anyway.
What is the motherboard, and have you never updated the bios since you got it?

Is there some kind of relation?

Not that I know of, and besides, it should crash in XTU as well, but it doesn't.


New season usually means new in-game bugs at the start to be ironed out by the players, or bug fixes.

 

[Jblaze24]

What is the motherboard, and have you never updated the bios since you got it

Motherboard is AS Rock Z390 Phantom Gaming 4S-IB. Never updated bios. Do not know much about bios besides how to get to it. It says my current version is: P1.10 Date 08/13/2019

Also I found out from video on YouTube why the memory speed is making it crash. Apparently it's a big deal with my graphics card. It said there were 2 companies that made the memory chips for 2080 Super's, Micron and Samsung.

It say's Samsung underclocks their VRAM memory chip speed and you have to manually over clock it. I remember buying the "SUPER" because I thought it meant it was better. I didn't even know what a overclock was back then. Guess they were being safe. I checked on GPU-Z and it does say memory chip is from Samsung

They got me on that one, Fair play to them! It Crashed 5 times in a row within first 15 seconds on 3D Mark and as soon as I increased memory to +500MHz it stopped crashing. Maybe combination of the factory underclock , New game update, and 2 years of wear and tear. Here is the link to the YouTube video if you wanna see it:

RTX 2080 Super has Underclocked VRAM | +1350MHz GDDR6 OC
62,172 views
July 24, 2019




Optimum Tech

620K subscribers

 

[Phaaze88]

AS Rock Z390 Phantom Gaming 4S-IB

Oh, the VRM on that board is kinda bare... I wouldn't even think of trying to put a i9 in it.
Bios updates may contain security and cpu microcode updates, improved auto voltage curves, and other bug fixes(specified).
Updating the bios is definitely worth considering when running out of troubleshooting options.

Also I found out from video on YouTube why the memory speed is making it crash. Apparently it's a big deal with my graphics card. It said there were 2 companies that made the memory chips for 2080 Super's, Micron and Samsung.

It say's Samsung underclocks their VRAM memory chip speed by 25% and you have to manually over clock it. I remember buying the "SUPER" because I thought it meant it was better. I didn't even know what a overclock was back then. Guess they were being safe. I checked on GPU-Z and it does say memory chip is from Samsung

They got me on that one, Fair play to them! It Crashed 5 times in a row within first 15 seconds on 3D Mark and as soon as I increased memory to +500MHz it stopped crashing. Maybe combination of the factory underclock , New game update, and 2 years of wear and tear.

But don't you see how unusual that is? That's not how OCs usually work.
Even if Samsung has their memory chips underclocked here - remember, I said Vram voltage is fixed - it should be stable at that frequency and lower.
But increasing the memory clock on your card - with that unchanged voltage - and it's stable??? No, it should be throwing out more errors than default and the negative memory offset you did earlier, but the error correction kicks in - at the cost of some performance.
Samsung probably realized their memory didn't clock as well as the other manufacturers, which would be a reason to do that.

A number of folks OC their gpu memory even further and don't properly check if the OC is doing anything or not.
Look at it this way: Someone's pushing a Vram OC and checking stability with one of the popular gpu benchmarks(3D Mark/Heaven/etc). Say they start off with +1000mhz(because 'everyone else did it') on it and run one of those apps for about 30mins.
No crashes or artifacts observed, so they up it another 100mhz... all clear.
Another 100mhz... still good.
Another 100mhz - Ah! The first signs of artifacting. So they've found their stable Vram OC at +1200mhz? In truth, no. It's one of those scenarios where it's already too late as soon as the first sign of trouble appears.
The memory error correction has it's limits. The stable OC was probably at +800mhz or something, who knows...



I'm believing either the gpu memory controller or the memory chip(s) might be busted... a bad or corrupt driver would've been a better outcome.

 

[Jblaze24]

But don't you see how unusual that is? That's not how OCs usually work.
Even if Samsung has their memory chips underclocked here - remember, I said Vram voltage is fixed - it should be stable at that frequency and lower.
But increasing the memory clock on your card - with that unchanged voltage - and it's stable???

Why would the voltage need to change? Don't you think they set voltage strong enough for some wiggle room for people who they know will OC? If That was the case then no one would be able to OC.

Going off of what I've learned from the stock memory underclock, I feel like the VRAM memory speed was set a bit slow and after 2 years of usage and games updating that it has caught up and cant process fast enough now. That's why it is crashing and why when I increase memory speed it stops crashing . I Could be wrong though.

I played the game for an hour earlier and it didn't crash. Have to test some more but it seems good for now. If it does start crashing again in future I will just keep increasing the memory speed till it's fight is over and I have to get new one.

I looked back at some of the posts similar to mine about "black screens and fans revving up" and everyone had RTX cards so I'm convinced it's thing.