PC crashes even with UPS

[arvindsagar702]

Hello, I recently ( <1 month ago) bought a 1000va ups so that i could counter all the voltage fluctuations this place has and also get a bit of time before i have to shut down my pc but even with this new ups my pc crashes as soon as there is either a voltage fluctuation or just power cut while i am gaming overwatch or nier automata or something, but while idling nothing like this happens . What problem could be there ? I removed everything and put them in a multisocket plug along with the ups and thought that might help,but still 🙁 .I think initially when ups was even newer it worked. Voltage fluctuations happen like 20 times a day and we have a stablizer for the entire home Also, to counter voltage fluctuations i was thinking maybe a voltage stabilizer might help bought specifically for pc , so should i buy one and is this one good enough ?
http://www.amazon.in/V-Guard-VG-500-Stabilizer-Air-Conditioner/dp/B00G25IJSC?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_M-BmzbJJW9ZFT

My specs :-
CPU - AMD FX-8350
GPU - Sapphier AMD R9 280x
PSU - Corsair VS550w
Mobo - Gigabyte GA 970A DS3P
Ram - 8 GB Gskil + 4 GB *2 Corsair DDR3 1600mhz
UPS - INTEX Gamma 1000va ( link - http://www.intex.in/it-accessories/ups/ups-gamma-1000-3 )
Windows 10.1 Insider preview 16... Entrepreneur Edition

Additional Notes - The ground pin of the pc power cable is broken so only +ve and -ve pins of the plug that connect the psu to ups are connected.

The extender that i use is homemade, its basically a socket put in a plastic box and then the +ve and -ve plugs have wires that take to the wall socket that is like 3m away.

Then i have a multiplug connected to the extender , its a weird one and it has only wires ,so the 3 pin plug of its goes into extender and the wire splits into 3 plugs and in those plugs are my ups monitor and speakers connected.

I live in India.

 

[the nerd 389]

With UPS devices, they take a few milliseconds to switch from mains power to the battery. At idle, the PSU's output caps will be able to keep everything running during the switch. Under full load, you drain the caps faster, so the PC may not be able to stay online.

I recommend getting a UPS specifically designed for computers. Where I am, that would be the APC Smart-UPS line. The Back-UPS Pro line should work reasonably well, too.

I wouldn't put that stabilizer on the same circuit as any computer. It's designed for motors. Motors can handle things that will eat a computer alive. Those units frequently inject voltage spikes into the power line as well, so anything on the same circuit could be at risk.

Lastly, you should really keep the PC grounded. It's a fire/electrocution safety risk to not ground the computer. It also bypasses any surge protection that the PSU may have. If the pin is broken, get either a new PSU or a new cable, whichever the pin was on.

 

[arvindsagar702]

With UPS devices, they take a few milliseconds to switch from mains power to the battery. At idle, the PSU's output caps will be able to keep everything running during the switch. Under full load, you drain the caps faster, so the PC may not be able to stay online.

I recommend getting a UPS specifically designed for computers. Where I am, that would be the APC Smart-UPS line. The Back-UPS Pro line should work reasonably well, too.

I wouldn't put that stabilizer on the same circuit as any computer. It's designed for motors. Motors can handle things that will eat a computer alive. Those units frequently inject voltage spikes into the power line as well, so anything on the same circuit could be at risk.

Lastly, you should really keep the PC grounded. It's a fire/electrocution safety risk to not ground the computer. It also bypasses any surge protection that the PSU may have. If the pin is broken, get either a new PSU or a new cable, whichever the pin was on.

I have a computer UPS, its designed specifically for computers and Intex is quite famous here . APC doesnt have good aftersales service here so thats why i didnt buy it. That aside, I know that UPS is supposed to keep pc alive, 1000va should be enough and i have seen people on the forums running heavier or similar specs on these UPS and the only downside on exceeding the specified range is that the battery will go out sooner than expected . But in my case the UPS cant even handle that load. I highly doubt its the UPS since its new. So what else could be the problem here ? Also ,you said that PSU plays a role in voltage fluctuations as well by providing enough power for the switch period,so could it be that my 4 year old Corsair VS550 be the culprit ? I already know of the fact that on that PSU my system is overloading as >550W is what the system takes on full load ( by the specs of the parts) . Could it be that the caps in my PSU are burnt or something ,if so is there any way to verify it out ? BTW the system doesnt get affected while idling and on UPS with power fluctuation or its outage.

 

[the nerd 389]

The caps are probably fine. You're just drawing more power than the PSU handle during the (presumably) 15-25 ms that it's without power as the UPS switches. It's worth noting that the UPS you have doesn't publish the switch time anywhere.

If you have brownouts in your area, the UPS may take significantly longer to kick in. (50+ ms) If that's the case, you should seriously look at the APC units. They'll boost the line voltage up to usable levels during a brownout.

Regarding after-sale support, the Smart UPS line can handle any number of batteries. You just have to do your homework before you buy one and wire it in. If you get one that's not the same size, you can rig it up to work fairly easily with some spare wire and crimpers. APC units have an abnormally short switch time of around 8-14 ms. If that won't keep your computer running, there isn't a line-interactive UPS available that will. You'd have to go with an online topology, and those are expensive. As far as APC goes, I've had a number of their units running for years, and the only thing I've ever needed was replacement batteries. If you do a bit of homework, it's not difficult to find alternatives if the APC replacement batteries aren't available.

Regarding the VS550, it certainly isn't the best PSU around. It's not one that I'd be comfortable with subjecting to excessive load. That said, if it can give you enough power to run games, the output caps are fine. The grey-label CX650m would be a good option if you were looking to upgrade the PSU.

The reason your computer doesn't shut off when idling is simply because it isn't drawing as much power. The output caps won't drain as fast, and will therefore keep the system online longer.

 

[arvindsagar702]

The caps are probably fine. You're just drawing more power than the PSU handle during the (presumably) 15-25 ms that it's without power as the UPS switches. It's worth noting that the UPS you have doesn't publish the switch time anywhere.

If you have brownouts in your area, the UPS may take significantly longer to kick in. (50+ ms) If that's the case, you should seriously look at the APC units. They'll boost the line voltage up to usable levels during a brownout.

Regarding after-sale support, the Smart UPS line can handle any number of batteries. You just have to do your homework before you buy one and wire it in. If you get one that's not the same size, you can rig it up to work fairly easily with some spare wire and crimpers. APC units have an abnormally short switch time of around 8-14 ms. If that won't keep your computer running, there isn't a line-interactive UPS available that will. You'd have to go with an online topology, and those are expensive. As far as APC goes, I've had a number of their units running for years, and the only thing I've ever needed was replacement batteries. If you do a bit of homework, it's not difficult to find alternatives if the APC replacement batteries aren't available.

Regarding the VS550, it certainly isn't the best PSU around. It's not one that I'd be comfortable with subjecting to excessive load. That said, if it can give you enough power to run games, the output caps are fine. The grey-label CX650m would be a good option if you were looking to upgrade the PSU.

The reason your computer doesn't shut off when idling is simply because it isn't drawing as much power. The output caps won't drain as fast, and will therefore keep the system online longer.

Hey thanks for fast replies there I know APC is a good brand but now I am stuck with this one , I don't think amazon will take it back. The site of the UPS mentions transfer time of 7-8ms under output section so i think its not the switch period. After a little testing,that is running the system on UPS battery i could use the pc but as soon as i ran a demanding game the UPS would just tick and the system would crash and the thing to note here is that the CPU power LED stays on and after the crash it starts with its boot up . I think its the battery of the UPS and it probably cant handle the load of the system while it runs at max . So, since i cant buy another UPS right now I think some workarounds might help,previously i thought it was the fluctuation and all for the system crash but now i have found the culprit,the battery. So do you think the battery could be faulty ?

Lets assume the battery is not faulty and that this isjust its limitation of 12v at 7ah ( i think there are 2 batteries) , so i just thought why cant i use 2 more batteries of 12v at 7 ah , they come cheap so can i not put them in series or parallel with the existing one ? I have my previous UPS lying around,its a 625va so if that can help or if i put new battery in , will it be able to help in any way ? I mean there must be workarounds , i cant spend much and these little enhancements might just help . I just put in a new psu power cable , for the grounds !!

 

[the nerd 389]

The tick you're hearing is a short circuit protection mechanism. It prevents the UPS from overheating and destroying itself.

In that case, there's nothing you can do to fix it (unless you reverse engineer the UPS to find it's limitation, and then change the design to handle more power). It's a limitation of the circuitry in the UPS, not the batteries. The batteries determine run time, not output capacity.

 

[arvindsagar702]

The tick you're hearing is a short circuit protection mechanism. It prevents the UPS from overheating and destroying itself.

In that case, there's nothing you can do to fix it (unless you reverse engineer the UPS to find it's limitation, and then change the design to handle more power). It's a limitation of the circuitry in the UPS, not the batteries. The batteries determine run time, not output capacity.

Yea thats it, any guide or link to how i can overclock it or modify it ?

 

[the nerd 389]

The tick you're hearing is a short circuit protection mechanism. It prevents the UPS from overheating and destroying itself.

In that case, there's nothing you can do to fix it (unless you reverse engineer the UPS to find it's limitation, and then change the design to handle more power). It's a limitation of the circuitry in the UPS, not the batteries. The batteries determine run time, not output capacity.

Yea thats it, any guide or link to how i can overclock it or modify it ?

Sort of. It requires an intro to electrical engineering lesson. You're not overclocking it, you'd be reverse-engineering it and then redesigning the circuit for a greater load. Those are completely different beasts in terms of the time investment. The redesigning stage isn't even guaranteed to be possible at all. You may end up having to literally make your own UPS from the ground up, from design to testing to prototyping to printing the circuit board.

These will give me a better idea of what sort of tutorial you should start with:
How good are you with a soldering iron, and what kind of soldering equipment do you have on hand?
What, if any, experience to you have with electrical component selection (resistors, capacitors, ICs, etc.)?
How comfortable are you with circuit diagrams?
Have you ever used a circuit simulator?
Do you have access to any electrical testing equipment?

 

[arvindsagar702]

The tick you're hearing is a short circuit protection mechanism. It prevents the UPS from overheating and destroying itself.

In that case, there's nothing you can do to fix it (unless you reverse engineer the UPS to find it's limitation, and then change the design to handle more power). It's a limitation of the circuitry in the UPS, not the batteries. The batteries determine run time, not output capacity.

Yea thats it, any guide or link to how i can overclock it or modify it ?

Sort of. It requires an intro to electrical engineering lesson. You're not overclocking it, you'd be reverse-engineering it and then redesigning the circuit for a greater load. Those are completely different beasts in terms of the time investment. The redesigning stage isn't even guaranteed to be possible at all. You may end up having to literally make your own UPS from the ground up, from design to testing to prototyping to printing the circuit board.

These will give me a better idea of what sort of tutorial you should start with:
How good are you with a soldering iron, and what kind of soldering equipment do you have on hand?
What, if any, experience to you have with electrical component selection (resistors, capacitors, ICs, etc.)?
How comfortable are you with circuit diagrams?
Have you ever used a circuit simulator?
Do you have access to any electrical testing equipment?

Yo sorry i took time,was busy . I am a right noob at electricals , but if you could point me to a link or just tell me what has to be done on the UPS I think i can get the required tools,then search up on google on howtos for every step that you give and lastly post results . As for the tools, i have access to a soldering machinge, a hot glue machine ( 😛 dunno if its any help) , have a spare UPS lying around of 625va with a dead battery, some money to buy either a multimeter or a 12v at 7ah battery ( i could make up a little more) and some technical friends who have quite experience into electricals. There is an electrical shop nearby if thats any help, the guy there keeps doing repairs and all so maybe he could help as well. So, in short can you tell me what has to be done ?

 

[the nerd 389]

There is no guide for what I'm proposing. I'm suggesting you essentially write one. If you've never worked with electronics before, it's not something you can just "do".

This requires a firm understanding of electronics. Expect the learning phase to last roughly 8 months if you want to do this safely, and you're an incredibly fast learner. You'll need to take classes to get to that point. The necessary knowledge is too extensive to get from a few tutorials. Usually, you can locate most of these courses online at the website of a university of your choice. You'll want to pursue the first two years of electrical engineering courses. MIT offers a number of free online courses that may help. There are no step-by-step guides to do this. You'd have to essentially write one. This operation involves significant risk to life and limb. Without proper tools and education, you don't want to go anywhere near this project. It could kill you.

I'm not okay with dispensing more specific advice of this nature to people who have never worked with electronics before, and also live in an area with 220V mains. The risks are too great for me to accept.

The other option is to bring it to your repair guy and tell him that you need the UPS to provide roughly 200 watts more than it currently does. He may tell you that he can't do it. That wouldn't surprise me. It also may cost quite a bit more than a new UPS.

 

[arvindsagar702]

There is no guide for what I'm proposing. I'm suggesting you essentially write one. If you've never worked with electronics before, it's not something you can just "do".

This requires a firm understanding of electronics. Expect the learning phase to last roughly 8 months if you want to do this safely, and you're an incredibly fast learner. You'll need to take classes to get to that point. The necessary knowledge is too extensive to get from a few tutorials. Usually, you can locate most of these courses online at the website of a university of your choice. You'll want to pursue the first two years of electrical engineering courses. MIT offers a number of free online courses that may help. There are no step-by-step guides to do this. You'd have to essentially write one. This operation involves significant risk to life and limb. Without proper tools and education, you don't want to go anywhere near this project. It could kill you.

I'm not okay with dispensing more specific advice of this nature to people who have never worked with electronics before, and also live in an area with 220V mains. The risks are too great for me to accept.

The other option is to bring it to your repair guy and tell him that you need the UPS to provide roughly 200 watts more than it currently does. He may tell you that he can't do it. That wouldn't surprise me. It also may cost quite a bit more than a new UPS.

Ye,so you mean its not possible to increase output wattage and for that one has to do all the sorts of engineering . In that case, there is no way for this 1000va ups to power a 600W rig running on 550W psu . Maybe 1200va might do a bit help but the starting for such UPS in India, APC or not is Rs.10000 , >$150 . Hm, any idea if i plug this UPS into a socket powered by inverter would help ? I would have to rewire somethings but its doable ,only if its of any help that is . The biggest problem right now is the voltage fluctuations , during afternoon, when the fluctuations are at peak they go nearly 10 times per hour and i just saw my pc crash 10 times in today's afternoon. Whats even more interesting is that i was gaming today and a few times the ups did its tick switch to battery and tick switch to mains and the PC didnt crash and it kept working normally. And only once, the pc just crashed right after it had crashed and had booted due to another fluctuation , it was just boot up ( i guess that was because the cpu must have been starting up apps).

 

[the nerd 389]

I normally expect to pay $150-$200 for a decent UPS of this type for normal use in my area.

If the outages are that frequent, I'd consider sinking up to $500 into the UPS to get one with expandable battery capacity. That sort of environment usually kills smaller batteries extremely quickly. The added capacity would allow the batteries to last longer, both in terms of uptime and time until replacement.

The APC units actually stabilize any voltage fluctuations without switching to the battery at all. They're worth the investment.

Regardless, I'd expect this type of problem from an undersized UPS that's connected to an overloaded PSU. Overloading the PSU multiplies the power needed by the PC (from the wall) by up to 1.4.

 

[arvindsagar702]

Thanks the nerd 389 . The ISSUE HAS BEEN RESOLVED. The solution ? Simple : I bought a 650watt Antec VP650P PSU and now the UPS is hanging up good , no crashes at load , no crashes on power cuts and i can even play at max load for more than 5 mins but i wouldnt.