Question PC don't start

[Raznode]

Hi, I have a problem with my PC. Whenever I try to turn it on, the PC loops on and off and won't start.

The specs:

CPU: i9-9900K
GPU: EVGA RTX 2080 TI Black
RAM: DDR4 T-Force Nighthawk 4x8 GB
HDD: Western Digital WDC WD2000FYYZ 2TB
SSD: Samsung SSD 970 EVO 500GB
MOBO: MPG Z390 GAMING EDGE AC
PSU: TT ToughPower GF1 850W
CASE: TT VIEW37 ARGB

The case has a controller for 3 fans: 2x20mm frontal. 1 x 12mm back.

I have checked every component and they're OK. Also, I checked for electric ground problems and the PC is grounded.

When I disconnect the SATA power from the WD HDD, the PC starts and when I disconnect the SATA power from the fan controller, the PC also starts. The problem happens when both the HDD and the fan controller are connected. Considering that, the method I use to start the PC is disconnecting the the fan controller and when the PC boots, I connect it again.

So this are the possible causes:

• The PSU is not delivering enough power: I don't think the PSU is at fault, since it has 850W output.
• The HDD is consuming too much power at boot for spin the motor drive: I don't think so, I tested the HDD in other PC with a lower PSU power and it started correctly.
• The fan controller is damaged, maybe some internal short-circuit that causes high currents to flow and the MOBO protects itself not starting the PC and causing the loop.

In the video, the PC starts at the 4th try, sometimes it won't start at all.

View: https://youtu.be/WtukzKaOKgg


Thanks.

 

[Lutfij]

FYI, you should NEVER reconnect a device that was previously disconnected (when the system was powered down) after you've powered up the system. If you want to put your components and/or yourself in harms way, disregard my point.

How old is the PSU? Have you tried a donor system's PSU to see if it can power everything in your system without an issue?

 

[Raznode]

FYI, you should NEVER reconnect a device that was previously disconnected (when the system was powered down) after you've powered up the system. If you want to put your components and/or yourself in harms way, disregard my point.

How old is the PSU? Have you tried a donor system's PSU to see if it can power everything in your system without an issue?

The PSU has no more than a month old (the previous PSU, the same model had the same problem, so I changed it and the problem persists). I haven´t tried other PSU, I´ll try to get one, should it have more power than 850W?

Thanks.

 

[King084]

Reset cmos jumper

 

[Raznode]

Reset cmos jumper

I did it, no change.

 

[King084]

I did it, no change.

My pc turned on and then fans started spinning for like 3sec and then stopped i reset the cmos and it worked

 

[King084]

I did it, no change.

Short the cmos for 10sec

 

[Darkbreeze]

Resetting the CMOS isn't going to do ANYTHING for a system that is looping unless it is a problem with the memory configuration and THEN, it should generally revert the memory configuration to the default safe boot settings after the third failed attempt. If that does not happen, then it is not due to the memory configuration and using the CMOS reset (Which is not the way I'd recommend resetting the CMOS ANYHOW) jumper is unlikely to do much unless you've changed graphics cards or CPUs and the system has failed to automatically reset the hardware tables. Even then, after attempting it one time, it would have done the trick and would not require an additional attempt. Since it didn't work I think we can move past that now.

I have checked every component and they're OK.

I doubt it. If you had checked "every" component, and they were all ok, you wouldn't be having any issues, so something is definitely "not ok". Which means, it would be smart to NOT rule anything out at this point, even if you THINK it is "ok", because it might not be. I, and others here, have solved thousands of threads, literally, where somebody though a specific component was "ok" and it turned out that it wasn't, so if we had ignored the possibility that that component was faulty we'd have never determined the problem at all in all probability.

The PSU is not delivering enough power: I don't think the PSU is at fault, since it has 850W output.

That, literally, has NOTHING whatsoever to do with anything. 1200w power supplies can be faulty just the same as 250w power supplies. Brand new power supplies can be faulty just the same as seven year old power supplies.

How old IS that power supply?

What "fan controller" are we talking about? Is this one that came with the case, or a third party aftermarket controller or are we talking about the controller on the motherboard itself? If you have to disconnect components then we are either looking at a lack of power or those components are faulty. There can really not be any other option.

One thing I would do FOR SURE, once you can get it to boot reliably, is verify that you have the MOST recent BIOS version installed.

 

[popatim]

You have integrated graphics in that i9.
unplug the PC, remove the GPU, connect the display to one of the motherboard ports, and see if it still boot loops.

We've also had users that missed that there was an out of place motherboard standoff shorting out the motherboard,so you may actually want to remove it from the case and breadboard it on a table or something to see if it works there.

 

[Raznode]

Resetting the CMOS isn't going to do ANYTHING for a system that is looping unless it is a problem with the memory configuration and THEN, it should generally revert the memory configuration to the default safe boot settings after the third failed attempt. If that does not happen, then it is not due to the memory configuration and using the CMOS reset (Which is not the way I'd recommend resetting the CMOS ANYHOW) jumper is unlikely to do much unless you've changed graphics cards or CPUs and the system has failed to automatically reset the hardware tables. Even then, after attempting it one time, it would have done the trick and would not require an additional attempt. Since it didn't work I think we can move past that now.



I doubt it. If you had checked "every" component, and they were all ok, you wouldn't be having any issues, so something is definitely "not ok". Which means, it would be smart to NOT rule anything out at this point, even if you THINK it is "ok", because it might not be. I, and others here, have solved thousands of threads, literally, where somebody though a specific component was "ok" and it turned out that it wasn't, so if we had ignored the possibility that that component was faulty we'd have never determined the problem at all in all probability.



That, literally, has NOTHING whatsoever to do with anything. 1200w power supplies can be faulty just the same as 250w power supplies. Brand new power supplies can be faulty just the same as seven year old power supplies.

How old IS that power supply?

What "fan controller" are we talking about? Is this one that came with the case, or a third party aftermarket controller or are we talking about the controller on the motherboard itself? If you have to disconnect components then we are either looking at a lack of power or those components are faulty. There can really not be any other option.

One thing I would do FOR SURE, once you can get it to boot reliably, is verify that you have the MOST recent BIOS version installed.

As I said, the problem is either the HDD or the fan controller, since when just one of them are connected, the PC starts, but when both are connected, it won't start.

The PSU is one month old (at first I thought it was a PSU problem, so I changed it for the same one and the problem still happens, that's why I believe it's a PSU lack of power)

The fan controller is the one that came with the case, https://es.thermaltake.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/key3/db/products/case/view37argb/pic4.jpg

Thanks.

 

[Darkbreeze]

There's no way that 850w unit lacks enough power to run that system, even overclock it to some degree. Well, at least the graphics card anyhow. Overclocking the CPU is probably either pointless or impossible on most 9900k's at least without an open loop cooler.

I agree with Popatim, I'd bench test it.

How To - Motherboard bench testing

Finding the problem through bench testing If you are here then it’s likely you have encountered a serious hardware issue and have been unable to resolve it using the standard no-POST troubleshooting procedures. If you have not yet attempted to resolve your issues using the no-POST...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[Raznode]

You have integrated graphics in that i9.
unplug the PC, remove the GPU, connect the display to one of the motherboard ports, and see if it still boot loops.

We've also had users that missed that there was an out of place motherboard standoff shorting out the motherboard,so you may actually want to remove it from the case and breadboard it on a table or something to see if it works there.

There's no way that 850w unit lacks enough power to run that system, even overclock it to some degree. Well, at least the graphics card anyhow. Overclocking the CPU is probably either pointless or impossible on most 9900k's at least without an open loop cooler.

I agree with Popatim, I'd bench test it.

How To - Motherboard bench testing

Finding the problem through bench testing If you are here then it’s likely you have encountered a serious hardware issue and have been unable to resolve it using the standard no-POST troubleshooting procedures. If you have not yet attempted to resolve your issues using the no-POST...

forums.tomshardware.com

I did the breadboard, following the guide and the problem happen when I connect both the HDD and the fan controller. I also requested Thermaltake a new controller (in case the original one was damaged) but no luck.

Now I think maybe one of the fans are causing the problem, so I´ll get rid of the controller and add new fans to the PC.

Thanks.

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you breadboarded the system, there shouldn't have BEEN any fans connected except the CPU cooler fan or radiator fans if you are using a liquid cooler.

I don't think you ever mentioned what cooler you are using?

 

[Raznode]

If you breadboarded the system, there shouldn't have BEEN any fans connected except the CPU cooler fan or radiator fans if you are using a liquid cooler.

I don't think you ever mentioned what cooler you are using?

Yes, I used just the cpu cooler fan while I breadboarded the system. After I tested the system with the HDD (system boots perfect), I connected the fan controller and the problem happened. i think the controller and the HDD somehow aren't compatible, since when I replaced the HDD with an SSD and connected with the fan controller, the system started.

CPU Cooler is MasterLiquid ML240L RGB

 

[Darkbreeze]

Personally, I'd bet something is mis-wired to the controller. Perhaps something that shares a connection with the hard drive like a power connector cable. Something isn't right and I doubt it's the controller or the hard drive, since the system does boot with each of them individually connected but not connected at the same time. There is LITERALLY NOTHING that could be incompatible between the two of them because they don't work together, or share any common connections, except possibly power.

 

[Raznode]

Hi,

I connected a MASTERFAN MF200R RGB to replace one of the 20 mm fan. This is connected to the Mobo through the 3 pin connector, and the PC didn`t started, so I´m now thinking that the problem may be that the system is not capable of run 3 additional fans at the same time, which I think is unlikely.

Thanks.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, it's unlikely. Is there a reason you don't just connect your fans directly to the motherboard and simply eliminate the fan hub?

 

[Raznode]

Yes, it's unlikely. Is there a reason you don't just connect your fans directly to the motherboard and simply eliminate the fan hub?

Yeah, I think I´ll get rid of the controller, and try to connect the fans directly to the motherboard.

Thanks.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would. Even if you don't have enough fan headers on the board, you can always get a couple of splitter cables to accommodate the number of fans. Try to keep it limited to no more than two fans per motherboard fan header if possible. In a pinch, you can do a three way splitter, but I like to avoid that where possible.

 

[popatim]

Sorry, I been very busy at work the past few days and haven't managed to get on.

It's odd that an SSD works and an HDD doesn't. The main difference being that an HDD uses the 12v line and the SSD doesn't. I think the controller may have a short in it.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would not be against that idea either. Very possible, especially since we know these are very cheap controllers they include for free with these cases. If they were of any quality at all, they'd have to increase the price of the case to account for it.

 

[Raznode]

Yeah, I thought the controller had a short, so I asked for a replacement, but the issues is still there withthe new one.

I have now a MF200R RGB (200 mm) fan connected to the motherboard. I have two 200 mm fans, one 120 mm fan (origininal from the case) and one 120 mm fan (3pin) from other computer

I made combinations with all the fans and the results are:

http://imgur.com/aTGLrMR

View: https://i.imgur.com/aTGLrMR.jpg


So the controller is capable to drive at max two fans at the same time (maybe too much current drawing from the fans?. I don't know)

Thanks.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Just a crappy fan controller that isn't capable of supplying enough power. Honestly, it's not that surprising. I've seen a number of problems with both Thermaltake and Cooler master when it comes to their integrated fan hubs and mini I/O boards on the front panels for USB and sound. Garbage in, garbage out.