PCI 3D Video

[phsstpok]

My friend has a Dell L Series computer, P3-800, with the Intel i810e chipset. (I tried to talk him out of it). He said he didn't need 3D graphics and never would. Well, guess what, he got hooked on 3D Driving and Racing games. Now, he want's me to help him.

Does anyone out there have any experience with PCI 3D cards. My friend wants to be able to play Need for Speedorche unleashed (which he can do now at 640x480 in something less than 32-bit colors) and Grand Prix 3 (which is does not work with the i810e (well, not 3D accelerated).

I know there are a couple of Geforce 2 MX PCI cards and there is the 3DFX VooDoo5 5500 PCI and www.pricewatch.com show a Radeon PCI (of which I have never heard). Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Does my friend have any hope of playing the two above games at 1024x768 in 32-bit colors with any of these boards?

I'm leaning toward the VooDoo5 but I don't like it because of the 3DFX sellout.

 

[LordKaos]

Just a problem with it!

NO SUPPORT!

Remember ? 3DFX is history!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone

 

[Guest]

I agree with loadkaos, avoid 3dfx! You'll have to find some reviews on the PCI mx and radeon. 3dfx made thier cards so that AGP didn't provide any extra performance (thus the V5 is the fastest PCI card out there), however I'm not sure how much of a difference PCI will make for the radeon and MX. Is the radeon SDR or DDR? If it's DDR go with it. If not I don't know which is better but I doubt you'd regret either. You'd be able to do 1024x768x32 with either card.

 

[phsstpok]

I have only found 2 reviews so far (sorry no links at this time). The Geforce2 MX PCI suffered performance penalties ranging from 10-45% from it's AGP brethren. The 3DFX Voodoo5 PCI only averaged a 10% penalty. I have only just learned of the ATI Radeon PCI (at www.atitech.com's online store). It appears it will be available March 1 and is an SDR version. Without at least an advanced preview of this product, I don't think my friend wants to wait.

From the little information that I have seen the Voodoo5 would have the best performance. I would prefer to hear personal accounts but failing this the Voodoo5 is what I will recommend to my friend. Though he has only just purchased his Dell he has decided that he will replace it in about 18 months to 2 years. The status of 3DFX will not play a big factor in his decision only the best performance choice that will work matters. He knows that he messed up buying the L series Dell.

 

[Guest]

But the status of 3dfx may matter. What happends when DX9 comes out? Other driver issues often come up with newer games, your friend may get screwed because of this. I suppose it depends on how serious of a gamer he is compared to if he cares about blowing money. If he's not too serious a V3 may be suffiecient until he dumps the MB (that's assuming the money is an issue).

 

[Guest]

Here's a review with the PCI MX, you're right it's not so hot.
http://www.viahardware.com/pcimxv4.shtm

 

[phsstpok]

Snrub, thanks for the info. I wish it was a review of a Voodoo5, instead of a Voodoo4, vs a Geforce 2 MX.

Since, the AGP version of the Voodoo5 is considerably faster than the AGP version of the Voodoo4 I'm still leaning toward the 3DFX as my final recommendation.

I am worried about drivers current and future but I believe the Voodoo5 drivers are mature enough to do the job.

As for the money, my friend blew lots of money, $1,900, on his Dell computer (which included MS office professional). I don't think he is worried about a couple hundred bucks for the VooDoo5.

He hasn't made up his mind yet so we may have time to see a review of the Radeon PCI before he decides.

It's been a few days since I posted my original so I am assuming that there just are not many people with first hand experience with current generation PCI cards. Too bad.

 

[Guest]

have you considered the cost of switching up motherboards, selling the old one, and getting an AGP version of the card instead?



-AMD's are not for the faint of heart... Intels? those are for newbies )-

 

[phsstpok]

That would be my PERSONAL choice. However, it is my friend's brand-new Dell computer. He doesn't want to void the warranty or sacrifice any technical support and I'm not sure a micro ATX mobo will fit the DELL L Series micro case.

The conclusion we both came to is the computer will be obsolete in 2 years or less. The graphics card we will buy is already obsolete but will probably run the two games he owns today and any future games he'll just have to use with reduced features or resolution. In any case, in 2 years he will simply want new stuff. (Maybe at that time he will let me build one! You ever have friend that will repeatedly ask your advice and never take it unless he has no choice? Well, that's my friend).

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 02/11/01 04:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[LordKaos]

Well, duhh!
Any computer bought now will be obsolete in 2 years!!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone

 

[phsstpok]

...and your point is what?

 

[phsstpok]

I just wanted to refresh this thread.

I'm still hoping someone can share experiences with PCI 3D cards, current cards that is.

 

[LordKaos]

My point is : If you keep waiting for the newest and best stuff you won´t buy you computer at all!

So , commit yourself to some good stuff, then when you feel you need more from your computer than he can handle you should start upgrading the crucial parts! At least it will
still be usefull untill the time you can buy a better one!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone

 

[phsstpok]

I understand but you seem to have lost track of the point of this thread.

The computer belongs to my friend. He is committed to it for say 18 months to 2 years. It is brand new, purchased in December 2000. I am trying to help him play his racing games.

 

[slippast]

I run a PCI Voodoo 3/2000 and I like it. It's been good to me for over a year. I'm on a machine that has been upgraded a dozen times and has now reached the end of it's long life (since 95). I mostly run UT on which I can get 20fps (sigh...) @640x480x16 (don't laugh, that's probably me fraggin' your ass tonight!). That's the processor's fault. Quake III can run at around 28fps because it works on the GPU more. Remember that either of the cards are going to be twice the speed of the Voodoo 3/2000 (143mhz core). You'll have the benifit of a quicker bus/cpu/more RAM/HD. My GUESS is that either of these cards will run at 1024x768x16 pretty well. The ATI has a T&L engine too.

The very last driver released by 3DFX before they went under was pretty bad, I rolled back and it's been fine...but it won't get any better. It's quirky and I have to live with it. If you don't mind not getting the support then get the Voodoo 5. Remember that all the cool features that made the Voodoo 5 appealing (motion blurs and so on) will never be supported by the drivers or the games.

Logically waiting a little bit for the PCI Radion would be better. ATI sucks at driver support but at least it would be there. Also, what if your card went tits up a month after buying it? Manufacturer's defect or something...you're SOL. I'd say go with what's safe. Be patient.

 

[phsstpok]

I read about the VooDoo5 having bad drivers (with no replacements), that 3DFX won't release hardware specs for 3rd parties, and couple those with the fact that the VooDoo5 is getting hard to obtain I told my friend to wait for the ATI. When he can compare capabilities with the Geforce 2 MX he can decide.

 

[blah]

While yer friend is waiting (which could be very long time) I would suggest of getting a VD3000 PCI. I have AGP one for more than a year now and it works like a champ in all my games. I sold my Athlon Classic 600 with it, and guess what, with all the stuff they have out now, I got another VD3000, image quality is no match better than NVidia's or else in games (even they are only 16 bit). Running UT and Quake at 10x by 7x smooooth as young ladies skin. And it costs just 80-90 bux this days. I've tried VD4500, crap. I guess VD5000 would be the same, VD3000 has mach better image quality than those, and the latest drivers are good for another 1+ years.

Anyway, that is my 2... hehe

K7 + KT7 + MX300 + VD3000 =