PCI-Express and DDR2 are useless for the forseeable future..

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http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMwLDE

'We have yet to find any application that can show real gaming benefits of PCI-Express and we are
thinking that DOOM3 and Half Life 2 will not really take advantage of it either'

'DDR2 is an obvious disappointment to the enthusiast. It is crippled by slow latencies compared to
our beloved low latency DDR400 '

'We are seeing no advantages to currently using PCI-Express video cards. We are currently seeing no
advantage to using DDR2 at 533MHz. Quite frankly we are seeing no real advantages at all'.


IMO, Its all a big fat Marketing Ploy to get us to upgrade early :/

S
 
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Aff, but you need the guinea pigs to pay a fortune for the bleeding-edge
stuff for the prices to eventually come down. :)

At least PCIe reduces board traces and simplifies design, eventually cutting
mfg. costs.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."



"Sham B" <shamb@easynet.co.ukNOSP> wrote in message
news:40d62da3$0$6322$afc38c87@auth.uk.news.easynet.net...
> IMO, Its all a big fat Marketing Ploy to get us to upgrade early :/
>
> S
>
>
 
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First of One wrote:

> Aff, but you need the guinea pigs to pay a fortune for the bleeding-edge
> stuff for the prices to eventually come down. :)
>
> At least PCIe reduces board traces and simplifies design, eventually
> cutting mfg. costs.

Given the prices of boards today I doubt very much that there's going to be
any significant reduction in manufacturing costs. Half a cent's worth of
copper maybe. This "cutting manufacturing costs" is another part of the
sales pitch.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 
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Aint that all PC componates ?

We don't care we will upgrade anyway, it will be faster but by not
much like usual, but the old tech wont be selling so we will buy the
new tech, just is the way it is.

Oh well.



On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:37:04 +0100, "Sham B" <shamb@easynet.co.ukNOSP>
wrote:

>http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMwLDE
>
>'We have yet to find any application that can show real gaming benefits of PCI-Express and we are
>thinking that DOOM3 and Half Life 2 will not really take advantage of it either'
>
>'DDR2 is an obvious disappointment to the enthusiast. It is crippled by slow latencies compared to
>our beloved low latency DDR400 '
>
>'We are seeing no advantages to currently using PCI-Express video cards. We are currently seeing no
>advantage to using DDR2 at 533MHz. Quite frankly we are seeing no real advantages at all'.
>
>
>IMO, Its all a big fat Marketing Ploy to get us to upgrade early :/
>
>S
>
 
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"Scott Backular" <paulm@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:affcd0tk6085j3lvec3kagqsljp25goqj9@4ax.com...
>
> Aint that all PC componates ?
>
> We don't care we will upgrade anyway, it will be faster but by not
> much like usual, but the old tech wont be selling so we will buy the
> new tech, just is the way it is.
>
> Oh well.
>


You make some good points, but I think anyone who wants to buy PCI Express
motherboards and cards as well as DDR-2 memory when they become available
in hopes of some immediate gain will be disappointed. Of course, as you
mention, we all do eventually jump on the new tech, but I know that I'm
totally set with my systems until late 2005 or early 2006. By then, the
landscape should be pretty sweet and all of this new tech coming out will
have matured somewhat too.
 

minotaur

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Sham B wrote:
> http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMwLDE
>
> 'We have yet to find any application that can show real gaming benefits of PCI-Express and we are
> thinking that DOOM3 and Half Life 2 will not really take advantage of it either'

Not surprising, as they where mostly developed on the ATI 9700 and GF4
series of cards.

>
> 'DDR2 is an obvious disappointment to the enthusiast. It is crippled by slow latencies compared to
> our beloved low latency DDR400 '
>
> 'We are seeing no advantages to currently using PCI-Express video cards. We are currently seeing no
> advantage to using DDR2 at 533MHz. Quite frankly we are seeing no real advantages at all'.

Well guess what? that's true, unless a developer was able to go into the
future a few years back and predict what would be a standard today and
program for it :\

>
>
> IMO, Its all a big fat Marketing Ploy to get us to upgrade early :/

Well it's a good thing we both know there isn't anything decent out
there yet to run on them.

> S
>
>

Shall all be worth it when the programmers have a chance to play with
the new hardware and to take advantage of new features available.

Marketing, well guess they have to get the new hardware out there some
how to the masses.

Minotaur (8*
 
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Iam upgrading soon to a Mobile Barton 2500 runing at 2.6,2.7ghz and a
Epox EP-8RDA3+ and thats IT untill Xp release an 64 Bit OS and people
start releaseing 64bit apps,games ect, untillthen ill keep my 32bit
system :)


On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 02:32:00 GMT, "First of One" <daxinfx@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Aff, but you need the guinea pigs to pay a fortune for the bleeding-edge
>stuff for the prices to eventually come down. :)
>
>At least PCIe reduces board traces and simplifies design, eventually cutting
>mfg. costs.
 
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Reducing the number of traces does simplify PCB design, perhaps leading
toward fewer board layers and such. As a more distant example, what do you
think is the cost difference between 128-bit and 256-bit memory interfaces?

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."



"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cb6gsm01suh@news2.newsguy.com...
> Given the prices of boards today I doubt very much that there's going to
be
> any significant reduction in manufacturing costs. Half a cent's worth of
> copper maybe. This "cutting manufacturing costs" is another part of the
> sales pitch.
>
> --
> --John
> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 
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Mobile Barton, as in Athlon-M, with lower default voltages, stock FSB, and
open multipliers? :)

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."



"Scott Backular" <paulm@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:grkcd05p0qi3u5k77g7a3e8k292rpa6jaj@4ax.com...
>
> Iam upgrading soon to a Mobile Barton 2500 runing at 2.6,2.7ghz and a
> Epox EP-8RDA3+ and thats IT untill Xp release an 64 Bit OS and people
> start releaseing 64bit apps,games ect, untillthen ill keep my 32bit
> system :)
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 02:32:00 GMT, "First of One" <daxinfx@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Aff, but you need the guinea pigs to pay a fortune for the bleeding-edge
> >stuff for the prices to eventually come down. :)
> >
> >At least PCIe reduces board traces and simplifies design, eventually
cutting
> >mfg. costs.
>
 
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First of One wrote:

> Reducing the number of traces does simplify PCB design, perhaps leading
> toward fewer board layers and such.

You can get new motherboards today for $30, retail. How much cheaper will
PCI Express allow them to be sold?

> As a more distant example, what do you
> think is the cost difference between 128-bit and 256-bit memory
> interfaces?

In what time frame? At some point in time it will be a couple of cents.


>

--
--John
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(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 
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"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cb8ed401ldk@news2.newsguy.com...
> You can get new motherboards today for $30, retail. How much cheaper will
> PCI Express allow them to be sold?

I should know this, for I'm running on a $50 Elitegroup board...

Remember, my original post said "cutting mfg. costs". PCIe is beneficial for
the manufacturer, but indifferent to the end-user. Board mfrs tend to be
pretty stringent on cost control, so a difference of 10 cents is actually
important, *particularly* when selling low-margin, $30 motherboards.

Note, all this applies to ATi cards. nVidia cards use a PCIe bridge. A few
manufacturers got quite ticked for having to pay an extra $5 for the bridge
chip.

> > As a more distant example, what do you
> > think is the cost difference between 128-bit and 256-bit memory
> > interfaces?
>
> In what time frame? At some point in time it will be a couple of cents.

Right now the retail price difference is more like $30. Even if the
manufacturing cost difference is $10, that's still pretty significant.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
 
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First of One wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:cb8ed401ldk@news2.newsguy.com...
>> You can get new motherboards today for $30, retail. How much cheaper
>> will PCI Express allow them to be sold?
>
> I should know this, for I'm running on a $50 Elitegroup board...
>
> Remember, my original post said "cutting mfg. costs". PCIe is beneficial
> for the manufacturer, but indifferent to the end-user. Board mfrs tend to
> be pretty stringent on cost control, so a difference of 10 cents is
> actually important, *particularly* when selling low-margin, $30
> motherboards.

But will there be ten cents difference? Will the mass of copper saved be
greater than the mass of ten US pennies? I don't think so--that's actually
quite a lot of copper. Will the PCI Express components be cheaper?

> Note, all this applies to ATi cards. nVidia cards use a PCIe bridge. A few
> manufacturers got quite ticked for having to pay an extra $5 for the
> bridge chip.
>
>> > As a more distant example, what do you
>> > think is the cost difference between 128-bit and 256-bit memory
>> > interfaces?
>>
>> In what time frame? At some point in time it will be a couple of cents.
>
> Right now the retail price difference is more like $30. Even if the
> manufacturing cost difference is $10, that's still pretty significant.

If you're talking video boards, I suspect that that's a marketing decision
and the actual manufacturing cost difference is small. Remember the price
difference between the Radeon 9500 and the 9700, even though they were
build on the same board with the same chip and one could be easily modded
into the other?

> --
> "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
> It can therefore be said that politics is war without
> bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)