[SOLVED] PCIe 4.0 NVMe RAID

[Jim_Lafleur]

I want to buy a new rig.

Thinking about the ASUS ROG Strix Z590-E mobo.

I'd like to install 2 Samsung 980 Pro (PCIe 4.0) (Up to 7,000 MB/s Read ; Up to 5,100 MB/s Write) in RAID 1

But then I saw this in the ASUS ROG Strix Z590-E mobo manual :
"Raid function for PCIe mode SSD in Intel® Rapid Storage Technology is available with either 1. Intel® SSDs installed in both CPU-attached and PCH-attached slots, or 2. any other 3rd party SSDs installed in PCH-attached slots."

There's 2 CPU-Attached PCIe 4.0 M.2 slots on that motherboard. Also two PCH-attached PCIe 3.0 M.2 slots.
According to the above statement, if I use 2 Samsung SSDs, I won't be able to connect them to the PCI 4.0 Slots... Only with Intel SSDs I'd be allowed to. They just don't make Intel PCIe 4.0 M.2 drives... Yet... I think.

What do you think? If I use Samsung SSDs instead in 4.0 slots, will it work?

 

[DSzymborski]

First question: why? For 99% or so of consumers, it's a pointless use of resources, and frequently, actually harmful.

 

[Jim_Lafleur]

OK. You helped solve my dilemma. The hamster just fell dead and hit the bottom of the wheel.

So if we absolutely want more storage speed, something like the following would be better right? No RAID to setup and blazing fast speeds. I mean, when they start selling the PCI 4.0 version of it.

Western Digital WD BLACK AN1500 NVMe AIC 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x8 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD). Up to 6500MB/s read speed and up to 4100MB/s write speed . It needs a spare x8 slot though.

 

[USAFRet]

Also, I think you're a bit off on the types of RAID and what they are for.

RAID 0 = 'speed'. Data is striped across 2 or more drives. However, that has not been a benefit in solid state drives, even with SATA III SSD. Even less with NVMe. It can actually be slower, due to the overhead.

RAID 1 = mirrored, for physical drive redundancy. It is for continued uptime, in the event of a physical drive fail. It is NOT for any speed benefit or backup purposes.
For instance, if you ran a webserver, and a drive fail meant loss of sales. A RAID 1 would allow the system to limp along until downtime could be scheduled to swap in a new drive.
This still needs a real backup.


Blazing fast speed? Outside of a few use cases, there is little user discernible difference between PCIe 3.0 and 4.0.
The benchmark numbers look great. But the user facing difference between 0.6 sec and 0.4 sec is....'what did I spend all this money on?!?'
Indeed, even between SATA III SSD and any NVMe...not as great as it would seem to be.

 

[Jim_Lafleur]

Also, I think you're a bit off on the types of RAID and what they are for.

Hi USAFRet.

Yeah, I know the differences between RAID 0 and 1.

I don't like the possible troubles of RAID 0: Need to have a battery backup to prevent corruption; If corruption happens, there's no way to copy data to a safe place.

RAID 1 still gives double read speed (But not for write speed). We have a backup. But if something happens to the motherboard/RAM/Video Card, often, with RAID 1, we'd still be able to access the data on the drives from another computer; Not with RAID 0; I prefer more security.

But again, I think that a NVMe SSD Add-in-Card like the WD_Black is the best of both worlds. Blazing speeds. Less chances of corruption.

Blazing fast speed? Outside of a few use cases, there is little user discernible difference between PCIe 3.0 and 4.0.

I forgot to mention. The system will be used for AutoDesk Civil 3D (a vertical AutoCAD product).
So, when loading a dozen 10 cm resolution Aerial images, storage speed makes a difference.

But you're right. PCIe 3.0 speeds are already Amazing!

 

[hotaru.hino]

I forgot to mention. The system will be used for AutoDesk Civil 3D (a vertical AutoCAD product).
So, when loading a dozen 10 cm resolution Aerial images, storage speed makes a difference.

Is this conjecture or did you actually see a measurable difference when going from say SATA SSDs to NVMe SSDs?

 

[DSzymborski]

I forgot to mention. The system will be used for AutoDesk Civil 3D (a vertical AutoCAD product).
So, when loading a dozen 10 cm resolution Aerial images, storage speed makes a difference.
But you're right. PCIe 3.0 speeds are already Amazing!

This is actually one of the use cases where something might make sense along these lines: large sequential transfers with data availability being highly crucial. You wouldn't believe how many people ask about RAIDs for their gaming computers here and how many people come here thinking RAID was a backup solution and now they can't get their data!

But I would honestly try without first, have a good backup solution, and only then explore RAID options if you think there's still gain to get.

 

[geofelt]

Speed of loading will depend on several factors.
The slowest will be your limiting factor.
What are the capabilities of the source and target?
How must processing time does it take to handle each transaction and might that be the limiting factor.

Seems like a good UPS would be helpful to preserve integrity in the event of a power failure.
Then, also, you need to decide if the performance benefit of allowing windows to cache writes would be worth the risk of corruption.

I do not know much about enterprise class ssd devices, but it sounds like they may be what you need.

 

[Jim_Lafleur]

What do you think? If I use Samsung SSDs instead (of Intel's) in 4.0 slots, will it work?

So can someone answer the inital OP (euh... Me! ) question?

 

[USAFRet]

So can someone answer the inital OP (euh... Me! ) question?

What do you think? If I use Samsung SSDs instead in 4.0 slots, will it work?

This?

Yes, they will work.
Backwards and forwards compatible.

 

[Jim_Lafleur]

This?

Yes, they will work.
Backwards and forwards compatible.

Even when the mobo manual explicitely says?:
"Raid function for PCIe mode SSD in Intel® Rapid Storage Technology is available with either 1. Intel® SSDs installed in both CPU-attached and PCH-attached slots, or 2. any other 3rd party SSDs installed in PCH-attached slots."

 

[USAFRet]

Even when the mobo manual explicitely says?:
"Raid function for PCIe mode SSD in Intel® Rapid Storage Technology is available with either 1. Intel® SSDs installed in both CPU-attached and PCH-attached slots, or 2. any other 3rd party SSDs installed in PCH-attached slots."

I meant "work", as in "a PCIe 4.0 drive will work in a 3.0 port".

The IRST subsystem is a whole different animal, which may only work as advertised, with the specified drives.

 

[Jim_Lafleur]

OK Dooky!

Thanks every one for the support.

 

[DSzymborski]

Hello,

I have this issue right now.

I have an Asus Z590 E-Gaming, Intel processor i9 11900K and 2 x Samsung 980 PRO.

The both Samsung 980 PRO are visible in EzMenu, I also could install Windows on one of them and see the second one in windows.
But when it comes to RAID the IRST menu says ”No disks connected to system”.
The HDD/SSD Smart Information doesn't see any device.
Sata mode selection is IRST Premium with Intel Optane System Acceleration(RAID).
I've updated the bios to latest version 0704, Date: 03/29/2021.
Still nothing. The RAID option doesn't appear.

So, if anybody have any suggestion...

Thank you!

Please start your own thread, with your full specs, rather than jumping into someone else's thread.