[SOLVED] PC's 21st Century-Rant

[CalScot]

<Mod Edit>
It's the 21st century. Everything should communicate and work integrated..
Everything should be modules!
Why after 20-30 years are we still discussing 'options'?
The PC is a tool, like a DeWalt Hammer drill, or hammer.
Why do MS 'troubleshooters' never work.?
Why after all this time does my printers say 'error when printing'? but doesn't tell me what's wrong.
Or Network not found....

Why are these exactly the same issues from 30 years ago?
Can't these systems self diagnose and fix?

 

[USAFRet]

Personally, I find most "problems" to be user induced.
As in...'I did this thing, not knowing what I was doing, and its now broke'.

'Options'? I LIKE options. Your use case is not my use case.

 

[kanewolf]

<Mod Edit>
It's the 21st century. Everything should communicate and work integrated..
Everything should be modules!
Why after 20-30 years are we still discussing 'options'?
The PC is a tool, like a DeWalt Hammer drill, or hammer.
Why do MS 'troubleshooters' never work.?
Why after all this time does my printers say 'error when printing'? but doesn't tell me what's wrong.
Or Network not found....

Why are these exactly the same issues from 30 years ago?
Can't these systems self diagnose and fix?

I put a 20V battery on my 18V DeWalt hammer drill and now it doesn't work. Or I bought $6 knockoff DeWalt batteries on AliExpress but now my hammer drill doesn't work.
Same thing with PCs. I put two different speed RAM sticks in my PC now it doesn't work. Or I put a $12 power supply in my PC and it doesn't work.

 

[USAFRet]

I'm actually surprised things work as well as they do.

Every PC/laptop on the planet is literally unique.

Go to the store, you and your friend buy two identical PCs.

30 minutes after first power on, they are different. You and he have made different selections in the initial Windows setup, different mouse/keyboard/monitors. Totally different software.

Or individual chips.
Your system may be able to OC to a stable 5.1GHz, but his can only get up to 4.9GHz.
"OMG!!! My system is broken! What's wrong!!!??"


Multiply you and your friend by 1 billion.
Yet they mostly still work.

 

[DSzymborski]

<Mod Edit>
It's the 21st century. Everything should communicate and work integrated..
Everything should be modules!
Why after 20-30 years are we still discussing 'options'?
The PC is a tool, like a DeWalt Hammer drill, or hammer.
Why do MS 'troubleshooters' never work.?
Why after all this time does my printers say 'error when printing'? but doesn't tell me what's wrong.
Or Network not found....

Why are these exactly the same issues from 30 years ago?
Can't these systems self diagnose and fix?

Basically, your objection is that technology hasn't become magical.

Yes, a drill is a tool. A very simple tool.

 

[TerryLaze]

Everything should be modules!
Why after 20-30 years are we still discussing 'options'?

Can't these systems self diagnose and fix?

What are modules and options in your mind?

All the printers and all the routers and all the peripherals keep log files that will tell you what went wrong and so does windows, but you do have to know how to read them.

Systems do not self fix because the system can't tell what you want it to do or not.

At least the network troubleshooter has worked for me plenty of times .

 

[Ralston18]

Per @DSzymborski: "magical" reminded me of a quote:

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

(Arthur C. Clarke.)

Even magic tricks go astray.....

 

[CalScot]

What are modules and options in your mind?
Plug and Play. Was not that a big thing 30 years ago?

All the printers and all the routers and all the peripherals keep log files that will tell you what went wrong and so does windows, but you do have to know how to read them.
Really? They do? Where? And as a user I need to learn to read them? Seriously?

Systems do not self fix because the system can't tell what you want it to do or not.
Why? I just want all the components to work in tandem. Why can't they do that in this century?

At least the network troubleshooter has worked for me plenty of times .
Not me. Why I come here.

(For example...printer cannot print because there is an error.
What error? How can I fix it? I don't want to diagnose errors..this is the 21st Century not 1995))

 

[CalScot]

Personally, I find most "problems" to be user induced.
As in...'I did this thing, not knowing what I was doing, and its now broke'.

'Options'? I LIKE options. Your use case is not my use case.

Do you do that with cars/washing machines/Dishwashers?
When I go to AutoZone I can buy a part that is guaranteed to work in my car.
Most cars have pcu's and systems that are robust and can't be messed by a user.

(Anyway this post is just for fun.)

 

[USAFRet]

Do you do that with cars/washing machines/Dishwashers?

(Anyway this post is just for fun.)

Do what?
Look at options? Sure.
For instance, I have no need or desire for a WiFi enabled washing machine. I would not buy one. YMMV.

User induced problems with a dishwasher?
Well...since a dishwasher is a pretty braindead simple device...After the initial installation, some of the user induced things might be putting plastic items too close to the heating element, using the wrong soap/detergent, wrong settings....things like that.


PCs and the whole computer ecosystem is incredibly complex.

Right now, I can:
Find a dinner recipe written by someone in Brazil
Hosted on a server in Germany
Autotranslate it from Portuguese to English
Download said recipe
Have it instantly available among all my devices....Linux/Android/Windows. Wired or wirelessly.

All the while, my systems that can speak to the outside world are being protected from random intrusion attacks.

Magic.


We've had automobiles for over 100 years. Why do they still break down? Why do we have to replace parts?


PCs today are immeasurably easier than a few short years ago.
Given a pile of compatible parts, any semi-intelligent 12 year old can assemble a working PC.


When things don't work? Well, you just have to be smarter than the equipment...

 

[TerryLaze]

Plug and Play. Was not that a big thing 30 years ago?

I have plugged things into my windows 10 system that I thought wouldn't have any drivers for sure and they got picked up automatically and started working before I could type in the serial of the device into google to find out what it is.

Really? They do? Where? And as a user I need to learn to read them? Seriously?

Depends on the device, they all have manuals stating were they keep the logs.
No you don't have to, you can also just bash on the device until it starts working again (or breaks completely)

Why? I just want all the components to work in tandem. Why can't they do that in this century?

Not me. Why I come here.

(For example...printer cannot print because there is an error.
What error? How can I fix it? I don't want to diagnose errors..this is the 21st Century not 1995))

Hey, that's my dream as well...

 

[CalScot]

'PCs and the whole computer ecosystem is incredibly complex. '

And should not be.
Especially at the consumer/semi-pro level. Nothing much has changed in 20 years.

This whole forum is dedicated to fixing issues.

Disclaimer. I am an Adobe engineer/Physicist

 

[USAFRet]

'PCs and the whole computer ecosystem is incredibly complex. '

And should not be.

I don't understand your "should not be" statement.

It's complex, but it still works.

What would your solution or change be?
How would YOU make it "not complex"?

I'm a programmer.
A few years ago, a friend of mine asked me : "How do you translate the 1's and 0's into stuff on the screen?"
I said: "I don't. There are about dozen layers of interpretation between the spinning platter in your PC to the "2+2=4" formula you see on your Excel sheet. I only deal with a couple of those."

 

[CalScot]

I don't understand your "should not be" statement.

Computers are tools. You should not need to tune them to get them to do the jobs you bought the tool for.

What would your solution or change be?
How would YOU make it "not complex"?

Not my issue. That's for the computer manufacturers and software designer.
Things are hardly different from the 90's. (You have an error...) Ookaay...

I'm a programmer.
A few years ago, a friend of mine asked me : "How do you translate the 1's and 0's into stuff on the screen?"

Again. Not my area. There are people being paid to do this. As they were decades ago.

 

[USAFRet]

Please format your replies properly....

By and large, computers are way way easier than previous.
That little magical computer you carry around in your pocket is way more advanced than what available on the desktop not that long ago.
Can talk to any person on the planet in seconds. Connects to Russian, American, European satellite constallations, can take pictures the equivalant of anything short of a dedicated DSLR.

How much 'tuning' do you have to do on that little thing?

 

[CalScot]

Please format your replies properly....

By and large, computers are way way easier than previous.
That little magical computer you carry around in your pocket is way more advanced than what available on the desktop not that long ago.
Can talk to any person on the planet in seconds. Connects to Russian, American, European satellite constallations, can take pictures the equivalant of anything short of a dedicated DSLR.

How much 'tuning' do you have to do on that little thing?

My points are valid.
Nothing you say changes that validity.
In terms of component compatibility and troubleshooting desktop
computers have changed little since the 90's. (I'm in my 60's)

Bye.

 

[USAFRet]

Magic....

Just the fact that I am In Virginia, USA, and you might be thousands of miles away on the other side of the planet, and we are having a nice back and forth conversation....

Magic.

 

[CalScot]

Science my friend.
California on a nice 80 degree day by the beach.

(Thank for your previous troubleshooting help.)

 

[Rogue Leader]

It sure sounds like you want to be in the Apple/Mac ecosystem.

In most cases stuff there "just works" which is great especially if you're not technologically capable. And if you buy all their expensive whizbang devices the integration is phenomenal. Its easy to use, and for the most part stuff connects and functions easily.

Unfortunately where they get you is you're limited on devices you can use, you're VERY limited on customization, you're massively overcharged, and they randomly obsolete perfectly good hardware forcing you to spend even more to continue in their ecosystem.

Arguably what has prevented your utopian dream, is PROFIT.

 

[USAFRet]

It sure sounds like you want to be in the Apple/Mac ecosystem.

In most cases stuff there "just works"

And when it does not, heaven help you...

Some years ago, at my uncles wake.
His recently acquired spouse bought a new printer.

A roomful of hardcore computer geeks...myself, my brother, cousin, daughter...Windows and Linux specialists...could NOT make her Apple PC talk to the printer.
Eventually, we gave up.

 

[TerryLaze]

I don't understand your "should not be" statement.

It's complex, but it still works.

What would your solution or change be?
How would YOU make it "not complex"?

I'm a programmer.
A few years ago, a friend of mine asked me : "How do you translate the 1's and 0's into stuff on the screen?"
I said: "I don't. There are about dozen layers of interpretation between the spinning platter in your PC to the "2+2=4" formula you see on your Excel sheet. I only deal with a couple of those."

To be fair, if they sat their buts down they could agree on ONE system and ONE printer and ONE router and everything ONE that would work as simply as possible and as transparently as possible with everything having clear and simple text outputs on dedicated lcd displays on every device when things do work and also when they don't work. Like my first dot matrix printer had a LED display that would flash error codes for anything that went wrong and you would immediately know what went wrong.

The problem is that there isn't any company that owns everything to make everything work together in the best possible way.
Even within companies every department is separated as much as possible to prevent any single employee from knowing too much about the whole product because of fear of loosing control of the IP.

 

[Zerk2012]

Disclaimer. I am an Adobe engineer/Physicist

Really this sums it up form your other post.

Thanks for the response.
Can you tell me it idiot form please?

Question - Phenom II X4. Stock cooler. Fan at RPM 4400. Doesn't change.

CPU fan always very noisy. Miniature jet engine. CPU temp @ 65C CPU Fan RPM @ 4400. always been like this. If this RPM is too high I'm unsure of the next logical step(s)

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[CalScot]

'Really this sums it up form your other post. '

Not sure what you mean Zerk.
Can you clarify please? What sums up what?
What 'form'?

 

[hotaru.hino]

<Mod Edit>
It's the 21st century. Everything should communicate and work integrated..
Everything should be modules!
Why after 20-30 years are we still discussing 'options'?
The PC is a tool, like a DeWalt Hammer drill, or hammer.
Why do MS 'troubleshooters' never work.?
Why after all this time does my printers say 'error when printing'? but doesn't tell me what's wrong.
Or Network not found....

Why are these exactly the same issues from 30 years ago?
Can't these systems self diagnose and fix?

Because PCs are general purpose devices. They're meant to be able to do anything we want, but they can't be a master of one particular thing unless they were specifically built for that task. If I wanted to go to an extreme end, considering PCs are basically computers, we have billions of devices that are computers, but they're built specifically to do a handful of things. The CPU in say a microwave wouldn't have looked out of place in a PC 20-30 years ago. A hammer is only good for pounding things in, but it can't work like a screwdriver (well, maybe if you try hard enough with the claw end on a slot head). Likewise, a screwdriver is only good for turning screws of a particular type, but makes a poor hammer.

And the reason why PCs can't fix themselves is because there's an infinite number of things that could be wrong, and a lot of them may not be of any fault of the computer itself. For example, if you didn't push the RAM stick all the way in, the computer may not boot. And if it does, it will not report everything and you're wondering why.

Even barring that, software is stupidly more complicated today than it was 30 years ago. People wanted more features. Those features don't come free.

 

[CalScot]

You make good points. Thank you.
I do not agree with all of them but thanks for the input.