Phenom II, or Core i7?

[gamerk316]

As the above posters said, for gaming, its pointless as the GPU is a bottleneck. Right now, i7 is simply a status symbol, as far as gaming is concerned, a Q9550 or better is plenty for a non-SLI/CF setup.

 

[werxen]

IMO amd is garbage and a total waste of time but i'm keeping personal opinions out of this comparison and just relying on the numbers.

Anyone have a P2 at 4.2Ghz? I'd love to see your benchmarks.

As for saving yourself a small fortune. It's not THAT much more for the I7.

I7 920 = 230.00 At the Microcenter
Gigabyte Mobo = 219.99
Good 1600 Memory - 150.00

Compared to..

P2 X4 - 231.00
Good Mobo 150.00
DDR2 1066 Memory - 50.00

So you're saving 168 bucks. Not worth it IMO

i dont know for you but being a college student myself 168 dollars is not something you find on the ground everyday buddy.

 

[jed]

This arguement is getting very old, here's the fact's.
For gaming only you don't need anything more than
a intel dual core period, If you have a phenom 1 i can
see you upgrading to a phenom 2 to save money, but
it's not better then the dual core and if your building a
new gaming system the dual core set-up is cheaper.

 

[BadTrip]

look he said he does a lot of video editing, He will make that $168 up in no time on the time hes saves. TIME > MONEY in my opinion.

Edit: My Time > Money

 

[gamerk316]

This arguement is getting very old, here's the fact's.
For gaming only you don't need anything more than
a intel dual core period, If you have a phenom 1 i can
see you upgrading to a phenom 2 to save money, but
it's not better then the dual core and if your building a
new gaming system the dual core set-up is cheaper.

Disagree. Most of the benchies I'm looking at for 1920x1200 are showing Duo's getting lower FPS then quads/PII/i7, which means that Duos have crossed over to a CPU bottleneck with todays GPU's at high settings.

 

[todd5854]

Well the way I see it, certain processors are better for certain things.

 

[werxen]

Disagree. Most of the benchies I'm looking at for 1920x1200 are showing Duo's getting lower FPS then quads/PII/i7, which means that Duos have crossed over to a CPU bottleneck with todays GPU's at high settings.

i dont know about most benchies. most benchmarks i have seen show the opposite. though if the i7 is heavily overclocked nothing can really touch it but what do you expect forking over 800+ for cpu ram and mobo combination.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

By July, new revs will be out for at least P2, and higher clocks/lower volts will be seen by then

Also the D0 rev of i7 should have replaced the earlier C0 revisions.

BTW, from AMD 2009 performance preview: taking Phenom II to 4.2GHz

Deneb's comparative performance against the Core i7-965 and Core i7-920, however, is rather troubling. Even at 4.2GHz and with an IMC running at 2.53GHz (1120MHz memory clock), Deneb doesn't always outperform Intel's lower-end, 2.67GHz solution, much less the top-end i7-965. It's true that the i7-965 is a $1,000 part today, but a Deneb clocked at the rates we tested (if such a thing existed for the commercial market) would run at least $1K as well.

Our data indicates that AMD has a long-term problem it's not going to be able to solve with clockspeed. The company's next 45nm refresh will have to include architectural improvements that result in significantly higher performance clock-for-clock—bolting more L3 cache on the core isn't going to be the magic answer. Socket AM3 arrives soon with support for DDR3-1300, but that's no silver bullet, either—desktop applications tend to be latency-sensitive, not bandwidth-limited. Meanwhile, both CPU manufacturers have reportedly reduced the rate at which they intend to push customers towards DDR3 platforms thanks to the current economic environment.

Whether AMD can even survive the current recession is itself in question; the company is in dire financial straits. AMD has slashed jobs, sold off various pieces of itself, and announced still more layoffs after releasing its fourth quarter 2008 results. CEO Dirk Meyer pledged to return to profitability in the second half of 2009, but simultaneously announced that the company would reduce its break-even point to $1.3 billion dollars, down from $1.5 billion. That sort of reduction means spending cuts and layoffs across the board, leaving fewer and fewer people to handle an increasingly desperate situation.

I hadn't heard anything about an architectural refresh for Deneb being in the works, so I'm guessing it'll be Bulldozer in 22 months before we see any significant changes.

 

[todd5854]

Where the hell do you people pull these numbers from?


I7 920 230.00
http://www.microcenter.com/
Gigabyte Mobo - 199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128375
Tri Channel 1600 DDR3 = 84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231224

Total = 513.99


Now for an Amd P2 X4 System :

P2 X4 920 - 229.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
790FX Mobo - 199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131361
4GB 1066 DDR2 - 47.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231226

Total = 477.97

Wow ho ho. You're going top tell me that 36 dollar difference is going to make you buy that garbage amd? Don't pull numbers out of your ass.

Yeah there's another thing I noticed. i7 prices aren't ridiculously higher than AMD's if you go with 920.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Where did you learn that bogus? I have to say this my Q9650 out beats my old Phenom 9850 when both overclocked to 3GHz. I got near 900 more points with the same GPU than that of the Phenom and I can overlcock this to 4GHz.

Three things are certain in life: death, taxes and Enigma's Yootoob video links

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Go i7, period. As for the graphics either get ONE 4870 X2, ONE GTX 295, or TWO GTX 285s with the later being the best and fastest choice. I say this because it is going to suck if you buy this expensive ass computer and have driver related and/or quad SLI/crossfire related issues and crashes. 2 GTX 285s will do perfectly fine for all games that can be maxed (so not Crysis which is a terrible unoptimized monstrous blob of a game). Oh and for gods sake just buy the god damn i7 920, buying the more expensive ones is like throwing money into the fire. If you need to spend that money then donate the price difference, does anyone donate money anymore?

By the time (July?) the OP is ready to buy, the 40nm GPUs should be out - well, AMD's anyway. I would check out the reviews at that time and see how the new ones do.

 

[todd5854]

By the time (July?) the OP is ready to buy, the 40nm GPUs should be out - well, AMD's anyway. I would check out the reviews at that time and see how the new ones do.

Next computer will probably be AMD graphics. I had a 4870 from when they first bought ATI, it ran FSX with everything on "very high" with 30FPS on my aging system. 40nm will be amazing!

 

[fazers_on_stun]

So what you're saying is, buy an i7 so you can stroke your e-peen on an online forum.

Here's a better idea - why not just *pretend* you own one and actually save yourself a small fortune while playing games at the same level on your Phenom II.

LOL - did somebody take their own advice and buy AMD stock last week, and now have to flog CPUs one-by-one here on Tom's??

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Next computer will probably be AMD graphics. I had a 4870 from when they first bought ATI, it ran FSX with everything on "very high" with 30FPS on my aging system. 40nm will be amazing!

That's what I'm going to do as well - besides, I've always liked ATI's "TV Wonder" series so I'll probably pick up an AMD QAM tuner too. I've had some issues with nVidia driver releases for GTX8800 breaking some older games such as NWN and NWN2, and it got to be a PITA reverting back to the last working version after trying a new one.

And although I haven't seen any articles on AMD's 40nm GPUs, I'd bet they'll raise the performance level quite a bit, so the i7 might show some extra advantage there. Despite some opinions to the contrary, many people here attribute the i7's falloff at some resolutions to an nVidia driver problem. We should know more next month if Anand updates their review.

I just bought one of the last Pioneer Pro 111FD plasmas (they are discontinued as of next month - Pioneer and Panasonic are switching to LCDs exclusively) and plan to use it as a gaming display on my new rig, although it is better known as a cinema or theater TV due to the black level & contrast ratio. Ordered it last week right after I read the news article about Pioneer, and today the price has jumped up by $700 on Amazon.com. Incredible. $700 will maybe buy 1.5 SSD's for the new rig .

 

[werxen]

Where the hell do you people pull these numbers from?


I7 920 230.00
http://www.microcenter.com/
Gigabyte Mobo - 199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128375
Tri Channel 1600 DDR3 = 84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231224

Total = 513.99


Now for an Amd P2 X4 System :

P2 X4 920 - 229.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
790FX Mobo - 199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131361
4GB 1066 DDR2 - 47.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231226

Total = 477.97

Wow ho ho. You're going top tell me that 36 dollar difference is going to make you buy that garbage amd? Don't pull numbers out of your ass.

lol i like how you used the black edition AMD and 4 gigs of ram while everything else on the i7 is cheapest you can get. good stuff.

 

[Cuddles]

I don't know why the above poster compared the least expensive Intel setup against the most expensive AMD setup. It doesn't make sense.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649
144.99
AM3 Motherboards run $140-$200
RAM
4 GB 1600
$100.00
or
1066 $40.00
so about $400.00 for a top of the line AMD system

 

[The_One_and_Only]

I would get an i7. The reason being, you don't see to much of a perfomance increase with a sinlge video card. Also there are still problems with GTX 295's drivers and that is making them seem silly. BUT when SLI comes into the picture the tables turn and the i7 is god (according to current trends). Now if you were to put 2 eVGA gtx 285 ssc's in that beast along with the asus deluxe mobo that is out right now, choose from either 6-12 gb's of ram (only the best kind now mind you), and an 800-1000 watt psu, YOU WILL CRAP YOURSELF....Believe me. The i7 will handle all you have asked AND more. The video card combo mentioned above will do everything you ask (even play crysis on high settings with aa) and most assuredly everything else currently on the market. Don't forget That the gtx 285's need to be ssc (super super clocked) and will able to handle thems selves for quite some time. BUT if you have the money and patience, go with the gtx 295's as once the new drivers come out (usually a couple of months with nvidia) they will reign supreme...
Note: just one gtx 285 ssc can play crysis on high settings with out aa, so that is a rough estimate of its power.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Also the D0 rev of i7 should have replaced the earlier C0 revisions.

BTW, from AMD 2009 performance preview: taking Phenom II to 4.2GHz

Deneb's comparative performance against the Core i7-965 and Core i7-920, however, is rather troubling. Even at 4.2GHz and with an IMC running at 2.53GHz (1120MHz memory clock), Deneb doesn't always outperform Intel's lower-end, 2.67GHz solution, much less the top-end i7-965. It's true that the i7-965 is a $1,000 part today, but a Deneb clocked at the rates we tested (if such a thing existed for the commercial market) would run at least $1K as well.

Our data indicates that AMD has a long-term problem it's not going to be able to solve with clockspeed. The company's next 45nm refresh will have to include architectural improvements that result in significantly higher performance clock-for-clock—bolting more L3 cache on the core isn't going to be the magic answer. Socket AM3 arrives soon with support for DDR3-1300, but that's no silver bullet, either—desktop applications tend to be latency-sensitive, not bandwidth-limited. Meanwhile, both CPU manufacturers have reportedly reduced the rate at which they intend to push customers towards DDR3 platforms thanks to the current economic environment.

Whether AMD can even survive the current recession is itself in question; the company is in dire financial straits. AMD has slashed jobs, sold off various pieces of itself, and announced still more layoffs after releasing its fourth quarter 2008 results. CEO Dirk Meyer pledged to return to profitability in the second half of 2009, but simultaneously announced that the company would reduce its break-even point to $1.3 billion dollars, down from $1.5 billion. That sort of reduction means spending cuts and layoffs across the board, leaving fewer and fewer people to handle an increasingly desperate situation.

I hadn't heard anything about an architectural refresh for Deneb being in the works, so I'm guessing it'll be Bulldozer in 22 months before we see any significant changes.

Check out figures 11 and 12 in this pdf. It appears theres a 12% gain possibly to be seen at 45nm
http://www.htw-dresden.de/~stenzel/lite/iedm2008.pdf
Oh, and this wont be needing a whole new arch either. This could be done on P2. Better revs+12%, maybe much higher stock clocks will be seen. A 3.5 stock could be done easily doing this. And, lets say AMD charges a premium, so they wont disrupt their current lineup, say 300$. This is speculation, but a possible prospect

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

While for gaming, the i7 wins some games numbers/perf, it also loses some as well. In a gpu scenario, where a nVida card is running better than an ATI is, and thats the game you play mostly, it only makes sense to go for the nVidia card, even if overall, the ATI card is faster....BUT...in that scenario, the costs are almost always within reason, or exactly the same, maybe 10$ difference, which cant be said here, as the i7 has much higher costs than a P2. It all comes down to usage, as I know i7 is faster in many other things than P2, other than gaming.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Check out figures 11 and 12 in this pdf. It appears theres a 12% gain possibly to be seen at 45nm
http://www.htw-dresden.de/~stenzel/lite/iedm2008.pdf
Oh, and this wont be needing a whole new arch either. This could be done on P2. Better revs+12%, maybe much higher stock clocks will be seen. A 3.5 stock could be done easily doing this. And, lets say AMD charges a premium, so they wont disrupt their current lineup, say 300$. This is speculation, but a possible prospect

Hmm, interesting - thanks for the link. I recall some Intel papers talking about tri-gate FETs, plus some people were speculating it would appear at 32nm, but I doubt we'll see it even at 22nm. Tri-gates supposedly greatly reduce leakage current in the channel (off current). Dunno how that would work with HKMG however. I'll see if I can dig up the linky.

However, IMO AMD really needs to bring Bulldozer forward. By the time it is scheduled to appear in 2011 on the current roadmaps, Sandy Bridge will be out and maybe even the 22nm shrink of Sandy Bridge if late 2011. Of course the sour economy could push everything including Sandy Bridge back. But now that AMD is getting that $700M investment, they need to make good use of it.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

YVW, and exactly. Bulldozer needs to come, and come quick. But, like weve seen the 6 core cpus coming out "early", maybe AMDs roadmap will be mover up. These clock increases will only last so long against the competition, as Intel will for usre once again, be on the smaller process, as well as possibly a new arch

 

[gamerk316]

Its simple: for gaming purposes, any GPU setup short of Tri SLI will bottleneck the CPU. Hence, why i7 does the same as PII with most single GPU setups, and runs away with the crown in SLI/CF setups.

What bothers me about that, is that if PII can't drive TODAYS SLI solutions to their fullest, what about the next generation of cards? Its a good update for an existing system, but I have serious doubts about PII's staying power right now.

 

[jed]

What bothers me about that, is that if PII can't drive TODAYS SLI solutions to their fullest, what about the next generation of cards? Its a good update for an existing system, but I have serious doubts about PII's staying power right now.

That the million dollar ? .

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Next computer will probably be AMD graphics. I had a 4870 from when they first bought ATI, it ran FSX with everything on "very high" with 30FPS on my aging system. 40nm will be amazing!

Saw some bad news this morning on the Inq. Says now AMD is pushing 40nm GPUs back indefinitely: AMD RV790 is stuck at 55nm

Speculation that AMD would be using a 40nm process for chip has been replaced by speculation that it won't.

According to Expreview the RV790 is going to be nothing more than a souped up RV770 which has been overclocked to buggery

First nVidia and now AMD

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Saw some bad news this morning on the Inq. Says now AMD is pushing 40nm GPUs back indefinitely: AMD RV790 is stuck at 55nm

Speculation that AMD would be using a 40nm process for chip has been replaced by speculation that it won't.

According to Expreview the RV790 is going to be nothing more than a souped up RV770 which has been overclocked to buggery

First nVidia and now AMD

It IS the Inq http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-4750-rv740-review-preview-test/3
Its been known for awhile the little brother comes first this time at 40nm. Also, good reference has the 5xxx series coming Q3, it wont be DX11, and those will be Q4, and this is a GOOD rumor, better than the Inqs