Phenom users 2.....

[uk_gangsta]

IF YOU DONT OWN A PHENOM, OR HAVE A LINK TO A FORUM WHERE SOMEONE DOES, STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD.

IF THIS THREAD DEGRADES INTO ANOTHER INTEL VS AMD BASH BY PEOPLE WHO DONT OWN PHENOMS, ILL START BANNING

WOW this is the first time ive seen a mod REALLY upset about a thread

 

[quantumsheep]

WOW this is the first time ive seen a mod REALLY upset about a thread

I myself have been quite pleased at this thread - it's one of the few that hasn't turned into a flame war and is just about having a nice little discussion.

 

[caveira2099]

Not according to benchmarks.

Only when concerning desktop common apps. Like I posted on another thread, memory benchmarks on THG are wrong for the Phenoms.

If you would like to see, go to http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/247776-28-phenom-athlon-core-scaling-compared

See ya

 

[pat]

So, to answer your question, yes, the phenom can be smoother when running multiple apps than a Core2, even if it takes more time to process the data internally.

I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. For desktop environment, FSB should not be the bottleneck in the entire system, therefore the difference between HT and FSB should be trivial.

Because 99.9% of desktop users are far from loading their system, even when running mulrtiple apps.. Just open you performance monitor and look at the performance graph. They don't peak a 100% very often and for a very long time. No matter how power user you are. So, you are very unlikely to get slowdown based on FSB bottleneck.

 

[quantumsheep]

Because 99.9% of desktop users are far from loading their system, even when running mulrtiple apps.. Just open you performance monitor and look at the performance graph. They don't peak a 100% very often and for a very long time. No matter how power user you are. So, you are very unlikely to get slowdown based on FSB bottleneck.

Sorry to contradict you but it is really very easy to load your computer at 100%. For example i like encodig video files etc while playing games, easily eats up all the CPU i give it!

 

[jimmysmitty]

I have posted my exprerience in using Q6600 and ask a comparison of Phenom in MULTI-TASKING SMOOTHNESS yesterday..

the link:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/247803-28-phenom-users

And still people are bashing AMD...I am a Fan of either, I've used both AMD & Intel before..I don't care if Phenom is 15% slower than Q6600, cause they are cheaper also...

The question is not the speed of work it does, but the SMOOTHNESS it can multi-task, because in a multi-tasking environment, there should be a benefit of having a Cache shared by all processor than separate Cache with intel...
Just like the Pentium D 8xx & 9xx having separate cache while the Athlon X2 are shared cache...

Just one thing here.... the L1 cache is seperate per core but the L2 cache is shared among the cores. For example, the E6600 has a 4MB L2 that is shared dynamically meaning that if one core needs more than the other than it will take priority and use more of the Cache.

Now as per multi tasking you wont see much differenc in the smoothness between the Phenom or the C2Q series. Loading will be more biased to the HD's and their seek time(latency), drive speed(RPMs) and interface speed. But overall both Phenom and C2Q will both provide a very smooth multi-tasking enviroment. So for every day task like web surfing, music playing, downloading and winrar packing/unpacking it will be the same. Hell I could do all of that and run 4-5 games of Conquer Online(look it up, it sucks now but was good then) and never see any lag with my Pentium 4 EE. Now major gaming will be performance attributed but if you have a dual/quad core you should be able to do background task and other things without any FPS hit.

 

[JonnyRock]

Duck, here comes a spanner!!!!!

I am liking this thread, and thx to turpit for stepping in to keep the peace its long over due in this forum. Maybe you guys can help me with this.

I am not a typical user and every one I talk to regarding my new build thinks what I want to do can not be done. But I want to try anyway.

The whole reason I have not upgraded my AMD 4400+ x2 939 pin box is because of what you guy are talking about. I am not sure that what I want to do wont bottleneck on FSB. At this point I am leaning towards INTEL but the FSB issue is a concern as I will be spending a lot of money here I don’t want to get this horribly wrong.

This is why.

My current PC spec:

Motherboard Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 939 pin
Zalman CNPS9700 CPU cooler
Antec tower (cheap case)
1x Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Champion
2x Seagate 320gig (T3320620AS) raid 0 for my games
1x Seagate 500gig (ST3500630AS) for random crap
2 gig Corsair XMS Pro CMX1024-3500LLPRO @ 2.0-3-2-6 1T
2x nvidia 7900GTX’s in SLI
1x LG HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GSA-H30N
620W Enermax Liberty Modular Series SLi - ELT620AWT V2
ViewSonic 19” LCD VX922 2ms
Zboard
A4Tech X-750F mouse

I currently run a virtual PC (vmware) which I use for all my internet stuff. Every thing I do internet wise other than gaming is done through this virtual PC, skype, msn, everything. Currently I can not keep the virtual PC open and play a game or encode a movie or use fraps at the same time, which is one thing I want to do. I like fraps and use it often.

I want to add a TV card so that I can have a TV on all the time and keep my virtual PC open as well even when I enter a game of COD4 or BF2142 for example.

This is what I want the new PC build to have and be able to do:

2x 36 gig western digital raptors raid 0 for OS and the virtual PC (it has a 30gig virtual hdd)
4x 150 gig western digital raptors raid 0 for games and fraps recording
4x Seagate 320gig raid 0 for TV recording and encoding.
1x 1000gig HDD for backing up stuff. (nit sure which brand yet)
2x DVD Rom’s
1x Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Champion
2 more monitors, 1x 22” for my main screen and 1x 19” for virtual PC. The current one would be for the TV.
1x onboard audio for the virtual PC.
2x SLI or Crossfire
2x network cards (one for the virtual PC one for the main PC)
1x TV card or video editing card that can do TV (I have had a look at a few, but I would be interested to see what you guys can suggest here) this card also need to display the virtual PC and TV. So it needs to have 2 displays attached.
4 gig memory, possibly 8 gig (question is should all 4 banks be used for 4 gig if I go with 4)
As there will not be enough SATA ports I will need a SATA raid controller (suggestions!!)
Psu?
Motherboard?
Cpu?
Case?
Cooling, should I water cool?

So this is the PC I seriously want to build. I have spent many hours looking at different combination of motherboard ram etc and can still not decide what to do.

I have even looked at the dual socket option but then things really start to get expensive and I lose gaming performance.

What would you guys suggest for a build like this?

 

[amddiesel]

Sorry - thats incorrect.


Even the old K8 is quicker than the Conroe core-for-core on some of the stuff I'm running.

http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3162&p=11


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/kilcoo316/lsdyna.gif

Several of the HPC benchmarks are too expensive for us to test, but we can get some information from AMD's and Intel's own benchmarking. According to Intel, the new Intel Xeon 5472 (1.89 score) is about 26% faster than the Xeon 5365 (1.5 score) when running the fluent benchmark. According to AMD, the Opteron 2350 is about 10% to 60% faster than a 2.33GHz Xeon E5345. That doesn't give us much comparison data, but at first sight it seems that AMD will be competitive in Fluent even at lower clock speeds (2.5GHz versus 3GHz).

I'm not using FEA, I'm using CFD - but the K8/K10 advantage is even more pronounced.

Interesting... but not to the gamers

 

[pat]

Sorry to contradict you but it is really very easy to load your computer at 100%. For example i like encodig video files etc while playing games, easily eats up all the CPU i give it!

I said that for 99.9% of thse that uses computer. You may be an exception. But, but I'm sure that your system is not fully loaded at al fo 90% of the time you actually use it.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

you are very unlikely to get slowdown based on FSB bottleneck.

Agreed. The FSB is not an issue on desktop machines for the vast majority of users, gamers included.

 

[Amiga500]

Interesting... but not to the gamers

I know.


Its a sad day whenever I am having to put work ahead of games



I wish I had the time for rfactor dude

 

[pogsnet]

I think AMD boards are alot cheaper than Intel boards. First reason is there are no more memory controller chip added to AMD boards compared to Intel. If you are talking about decent boards please make sure to think HOW OLD is the board are you talking to. Maybe you compare the November 2007 released boards (AMD) for 2006 Boards of Intel's. AMD boards are alot cheaper for a fact. Reason 2, if they are not cheaper then no one will buy them.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I think AMD boards are alot cheaper than Intel boards. First reason is there are no more memory controller chip added to AMD boards compared to Intel. If you are talking about decent boards please make sure to think HOW OLD is the board are you talking to. Maybe you compare the November 2007 released boards (AMD) for 2006 Boards of Intel's. AMD boards are alot cheaper for a fact. Reason 2, if they are not cheaper then no one will buy them.

You could compare the release date but why would you buy a newer board if a older one will wupport the chips you want? Any Asus P35 mobo will more and likely support any of the Yorkies/Penryns. To get FULL(and I mean HT3, the power saving options and faster memory support) form an AMD chip you need a newer AM2+ board with either the 770 or 790 chipset. To compare mobos its all about the CPU.

Basically if you can get a P35 mobo for $80 bucks that is made to support the 45nm chips then thats the one you compare to the cheapest AMD Phenom supporting mobo. But don't forget that most of the extra cost comes from the extra features such as CF/SLI, 6-8 SATA ports, WiFi, Firewire, external SATA and so on. You also have to remember that now AMD makes their own chipsets so the prices for their boards are going to seem similar to someone who is building a new rig as compared to someone building a new Intel rig.

I made a wishlist for a new Phenom rig on newegg.com and the total cost with a nice 790FX mobo came to $1600. A intel rig with a Q6600 came to $1500. Only difference if the Intel rig came with a case and the Phenom rig did not. Now with a older AM2 mobo and DDR1 it is cheaper but if you build a new rig all together it ends up the same as a new Intel rig with equal or better CPU.

But the important part is the fact that the smoothness with either one should provide the same. Only lag will be dependant on your HD. Like if you only have one Raptor it might not load as fast as 2 Seagate SATA2 in a RAID0 since the interface speed is doubled in a RAID0 where as one SATA drive only has the base speed. In real terms you wont be able to see a difference between the Phenom and the C2Q when it comes to multitasking. Maybe you will see the difference when OC'ing them as the C2Q series has a higher headroom but not at stock speeds.

Edit: Forgot to add that the MC being on the chipset doesn't add to cost it just makes a difference in memory bandwidth.

 

[pat]

.Now with a older AM2 mobo and DDR1 it is cheaper but if you build a new rig all together it ends up the same as a new Intel rig with equal or better CPU..

AM2 don't support ddr1 memory, only ddr2. 939 support ddr1

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

AM2 don't support ddr1 memory, only ddr2. 939 support ddr1

You're correct. And if you want to get REALLY technical, it's the processor, not the motherboard that determines the type of RAM you can use (IMC).

 

[Evilonigiri]

You're correct. And if you want to get REALLY technical, it's the processor, not the motherboard that determines the type of RAM you can use (IMC).

That means C2D is compatible with DDR, DDR2, and DDR3 while K8 AM2 is only compatible with DDR2?

 

[reconviperone1]

Duck, here comes a spanner!!!!!

I am liking this thread, and thx to turpit for stepping in to keep the peace its long over due in this forum. Maybe you guys can help me with this.

I am not a typical user and every one I talk to regarding my new build thinks what I want to do can not be done. But I want to try anyway.

The whole reason I have not upgraded my AMD 4400+ x2 939 pin box is because of what you guy are talking about. I am not sure that what I want to do wont bottleneck on FSB. At this point I am leaning towards INTEL but the FSB issue is a concern as I will be spending a lot of money here I don’t want to get this horribly wrong.

This is why.

My current PC spec:

Motherboard Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 939 pin
Zalman CNPS9700 CPU cooler
Antec tower (cheap case)
1x Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Champion
2x Seagate 320gig (T3320620AS) raid 0 for my games
1x Seagate 500gig (ST3500630AS) for random crap
2 gig Corsair XMS Pro CMX1024-3500LLPRO @ 2.0-3-2-6 1T
2x nvidia 7900GTX’s in SLI
1x LG HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GSA-H30N
620W Enermax Liberty Modular Series SLi - ELT620AWT V2
ViewSonic 19” LCD VX922 2ms
Zboard
A4Tech X-750F mouse

I currently run a virtual PC (vmware) which I use for all my internet stuff. Every thing I do internet wise other than gaming is done through this virtual PC, skype, msn, everything. Currently I can not keep the virtual PC open and play a game or encode a movie or use fraps at the same time, which is one thing I want to do. I like fraps and use it often.

I want to add a TV card so that I can have a TV on all the time and keep my virtual PC open as well even when I enter a game of COD4 or BF2142 for example.

This is what I want the new PC build to have and be able to do:

2x 36 gig western digital raptors raid 0 for OS and the virtual PC (it has a 30gig virtual hdd)
4x 150 gig western digital raptors raid 0 for games and fraps recording
4x Seagate 320gig raid 0 for TV recording and encoding.
1x 1000gig HDD for backing up stuff. (nit sure which brand yet)
2x DVD Rom’s
1x Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Champion
2 more monitors, 1x 22” for my main screen and 1x 19” for virtual PC. The current one would be for the TV.
1x onboard audio for the virtual PC.
2x SLI or Crossfire
2x network cards (one for the virtual PC one for the main PC)
1x TV card or video editing card that can do TV (I have had a look at a few, but I would be interested to see what you guys can suggest here) this card also need to display the virtual PC and TV. So it needs to have 2 displays attached.
4 gig memory, possibly 8 gig (question is should all 4 banks be used for 4 gig if I go with 4)
As there will not be enough SATA ports I will need a SATA raid controller (suggestions!!)
Psu?
Motherboard?
Cpu?
Case?
Cooling, should I water cool?

So this is the PC I seriously want to build. I have spent many hours looking at different combination of motherboard ram etc and can still not decide what to do.

I have even looked at the dual socket option but then things really start to get expensive and I lose gaming performance.

What would you guys suggest for a build like this?

LOL, sounds like you need to just buy someones used mainframe.

 

[homerdog]

That means C2D is compatible with DDR, DDR2, and DDR3 while K8 AM2 is only compatible with DDR2?

Yep

 

[chuckshissle]

I'm planning to go with AMD/ATI this year. I switch back and forth with AMD, Intel, ATI and Nvidia. One thing I like about the Phenom is the price. Under $200 for a quad core that's a steal, sure it's not as fast at the $270 Q6600 but most applications and most of us don't need them extra performance at all. Well, I don't have much use for a quad core, my games will even fully utilized it. But for a chance I'd rather buy a cheap quad core anyways, since I've been using a dual core and it has served it porpuse really well.

I already have an HD3870 so all I need now is an AMD platform to go with. Getting a quad core and a motherboard for it that cost as much as a Q6600 is a good deal for me. So unless there will be a cheaper offer this spring, I'll get the Phenom 9500 and a board for it. That should fixed my system for the next two years, I hope.

 

[quantumsheep]

I' Under $200 for a quad core that's a steal, sure it's not as fast at the $270 Q6600

AMD's problem in the UK is currently the Pheonm 9500 is only £20 cheaper than the Q6600 and the 9600 is actally more expensive at the majority of retailers! This doesn't really give much consumer choice does it!

AMD needs to get their prices sorted out and as soon as they do i'm going to start recommending their Quads, 'cause at the price they're going for in the states they're a steal.

 

[yipsl]

I'm planning to go with AMD/ATI this year. I switch back and forth with AMD, Intel, ATI and Nvidia. One thing I like about the Phenom is the price. Under $200 for a quad core that's a steal, sure it's not as fast at the $270 Q6600 but most applications and most of us don't need them extra performance at all. Well, I don't have much use for a quad core, my games will even fully utilized it. But for a chance I'd rather buy a cheap quad core anyways, since I've been using a dual core and it has served it porpuse really well.

I already have an HD3870 so all I need now is an AMD platform to go with. Getting a quad core and a motherboard for it that cost as much as a Q6600 is a good deal for me. So unless there will be a cheaper offer this spring, I'll get the Phenom 9500 and a board for it. That should fixed my system for the next two years, I hope.

I'll get one Phenom for my wife, who keeps her PC on much of the time getting unlicensed anime fansubs, but who also mods and plays games. She can utilize quad cores. I'll get the cheapest Phenom for her 690G board.

For my system, I'll stick with my current Athlon X2 4600+ on a 690G unless there's a really cheap triple core that games will utilize. I'll wait till 45nm for an AMD quad core, or maybe wait to see what AMD has with Swift.

I was going to get two 3850's for each PC, but my wife wants a 3870, so I'll get two since I won't be getting a new processor. I'm debating the value of the single 3870 at Newegg that has DDR3 instead of DDR4, it's $29 more than the 512 meg 3850 and $20 cheaper than the cheapest DDR4 3870.

We'll also replace our 17" Viewsonic A70f and A71f with two decent LCD's with the next resolution above 1280 x 1024 (what is it? 1440 x 900?). I don't think I'd see enough of a performance boost with a quad core for myself this year, and it makes sense to go for the better graphics cards and new monitors.

I mostly play games, surf the net kvetching about all sorts of things, watch anime and write semiprofessionally. The applications that need quad core the most now are 3DS Max and various encoding programs, plus the kind of multitasking she does.

Faster RAM might help too, all we have are Kingston DDR2 667 value RAM in both PC's with dual boot Vista/XP on each. Sometimes, I've even gone back and played old games under Dosbox, but I am looking forward to The Witcher, Hellgate London, and when they finally come out; Alan Wake and Spore. I don't play FPS all that much because my wife doesn't mind SF and horror, and she's as much of a fantays CRPG fan as I am (especially The Elder Scrolls), but she doesn't like guns, so not even Call of Duty 2 where you get to shoot Nazis in WW2.

 

[quantumsheep]

Call of Duty 2 where you get to shoot Nazis in WW2.

I don't mean to offend anyone by this statement and it is a bit off topic - but here it goes:

Pretty much 99% of the "Nazi" soldiers in World War 2 were just normal blokes who joined the army to make a living and quite possibly got caught up in the massive propaganda storm that the regime created. Pretty much anyone can be made to believe anything by the use of Propaganda. I'm not sure if conscription took place with in the Reich, but it wouldn't suprise me (Nazi Germany isn't my speciality, political ideology and Stalin's USSR are my specialitys). Therefore when you say you're shooting Nazis - you're not. You're just shooting normal everyday blokes like you or me. Pretty much the only real "Nazis" were the ones that were running the Concentration camps and in powerful positions in Government. So the likelihood of a real Nazi had of being shot in World War 2 was very minimal. Probably about 15:1.

Oh and one other thing that's different yet again - please noone call Nazism Fascism as it just wasn't.

Sorry for getting off topic, it's just a little bugbear of mine.

 

[spoonboy]

I saw some statistic that said like of the 3 million germans who made up the army that invaded russia in ww2, only 10,000 survived and ever returned home. Most of the bad guys bought it is the point.

 

[thefumigator]

That means C2D is compatible with DDR, DDR2, and DDR3 while K8 AM2 is only compatible with DDR2?

That's because Athlons have the memory controller on die since 2003, while in intel: the mobo's chipset determines which memory can the system support.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

That means C2D is compatible with DDR, DDR2, and DDR3 while K8 AM2 is only compatible with DDR2?

No, not technically.

In that case the motherboard is compatible with a memory type, because on an Intel machine the memory controller is on the motherboard, not the processor.

However, that is an advantage of having the MC on the motherboard, you can use the same processor with different memory types.