Picking a graphics card

[loadnpants]

My son is getting a hand me down desktop from my in-laws and he wants to upgrade it to play his games.

First the machine is a:
HP Pavillion p6320y
Motherboard: M2N78-LA (Violet6)
Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 820
8G of ram (to be upgraded to max 16g)
300W power supply (to be upgraded to 650W)
Expansion Slots:
1 PCI Express x16 slot for graphics card
2 PCI Express x1 slots
1 PCI slot
1 PCI Express x1 minicard slot

He plays games like League of Legends, Minecraft, among others. Our family computer (almost same p6310y) barely runs them, but bc the machine does not have a dedicated graphics card, it runs poorly.

I would like a graphics card that will play at least those games.
Can the card be pci express 2.0 or 3.0? are those backward compatible? (I may build a new computer for him next yr or two) and would like to use as many components as possible to save money.

His budget is $200 or less. Obviously, cheaper the better. If it doesn't benefit him to get a much better 3.0 or 2.0 card, and we stick with x16?

Thanks,
Adam

 

[blazorthon]

What PSU are you upgrading to? The wattage is one of the least important factors and most certainly doesn't tell me if it's enough for any particular video card.

Going strictly by budget, I'd probably recommend a Gigabyte Radeon 7850 such as this model:
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr785oc2gd
$190 for the huge factory overclock and great cooler for more overclocking is quite the deal IMO, especially since it's a 2GB model.

 

[prototype18]

Well PCIe its not a problem.

Ati

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=76127&vpn=HD7850-DC2-2GD5-V2&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1373

This i the best bang for the buck.

Cool/Quiet !

Nvidia

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=76367&vpn=GTX660-DC2O-2GD5&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1030

Comparing the Two GPU

Imo i would get the 660. Its better than 7850 and this one is a great deal. Dont let it go away !

 

[blazorthon]

Well PCIe its not a problem.

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Intel/Ivy_Bridge_PCI-Express_Scaling/images/perfrel.gif

Ati

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=76127&vpn=HD7850-DC2-2GD5-V2&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1373

This i the best bang for the buck.

Cool/Quiet !

Nvidia

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=76367&vpn=GTX660-DC2O-2GD5&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1030

Comparing the Two GPU

Imo i would get the 660. Its better than 7850 and this one is a great deal. Dont let it go away !

Your examples are more expensive than mine while being slower in the first example and about on-par in the second example. None of what you said is entirely correct except for PCIe version not being important in this situation and your last link isn't even relevant because it is using extremely outdated information and isn't comparing relevant models anyway (comparing reference models instead of non-reference models that are actually worth buying is nearly pointless).

Not to be rude, but you were wrong in several ways. Also, the 7850 is not an Ati card, it's an AMD card.

EDIT: Also, your Nvidia recommendation seems to be out of stock.

 

[loadnpants]

Here is the power supply I got him.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

 

[blazorthon]

That is an excellent PSU and should power any single GPU card and most dual-GPU cards.

I'd recommend that you stick with my earlier recommendation.

That 7850 should have no trouble in any game that you're playing. Also, I do not recommend upgrading your RAM capacity unless you have reasons other than gaming in mind. More than 8gB will not help any game in anysituation that I'm aware of unless you're doing some extreme multi-tasking.

 

[loadnpants]

My only concern is the card you mentioned is pci-express (1?) x16.

If I'm going to spend closer to 200, I would like it to be able to use in new machine a yr later. Does that mean I should get a 2.0 or 3.0 card?

Or am I just focused on numbers? I haven't built a computer in many yrs and am lost completely in regard to graphics cards

 

[loadnpants]

He wants to run a Minecraft server and I guess it takes up at least 4g of ram.

 

[prototype18]

Your examples are more expensive than mine while being slower in the first example and about on-par in the second example. None of what you said is entirely correct except for PCIe version not being important in this situation and your last link isn't even relevant because it is using extremely outdated information and isn't comparing relevant models anyway (comparing reference models instead of non-reference models that are actually worth buying is nearly pointless).

Not to be rude, but you were wrong in several ways. Also, the 7850 is not an Ati card, it's an AMD card.

EDIT: Also, your Nvidia recommendation seems to be out of stock.

Well that card was in stock 15 mins ago.

And ASUS its a better brand than gigabyte. U cant change it.

http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=708&page=10

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/2853/11/amd-radeon-hd-7850--7870-round-up-benchmarks

Not so hard to notice right ? Also the Asus one can oc Higher than gigabyte one so here YOU are wrong.

And about the gtx 660

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Direct_Cu_II/27.html

So HARD to notice it ?

Edit : That PSU its just great !

And i linked you a pic about that PCIe .

 

[blazorthon]

Well that card was in stock 15 mins ago.

And ASUS its a better brand than gigabyte. U cant change it.

http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=708&page=10

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/2853/11/amd-radeon-hd-7850--7870-round-up-benchmarks

Not so hard to notice right ? Also the Asus one can oc Higher than gigabyte one so here YOU are wrong.

And about the gtx 660

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Direct_Cu_II/27.html

So HARD to notice it ?

Edit : That PSU its just great !

And i linked you a pic about that PCIe .

Yet again, you use outdated reviews that display how wrong you are. None of your evidence is up to date and is thus all irrelevant. Furthermore, your own links state that the Asus has inferior cooling to the Gigabyte because it lacks memory cooling whereas the Gigabyte has it and shows that Gigabyte to be the better overclocking card with that taken into account. Furthermore, I looked all through the review and didn't see any mentioning of actually testing overclocks on these 7850s for absolute proof of the GPU overclocking advantage that you claim exists against the Gigabyte model.

Furthermore, yet again, you use an irrelevant GTX 660 article that is outdated and didn't make a relevant comparison for your examples anyway. SO hard to notice all of this, huh?

Even better is that you claim that a particular brand is better than another. That's incredibly wrong and ignores the fact that each model even within a given brand can have greatly varying quality. For example, the Radeon 7950 Ghost from XFX is a junk card, yet several other XFX models are nearly best in class. The same is true for some Asus and Gigabyte cards. Branding is almost irrelevant, what matters is the individual card.

Regardless of all of that, all of your examples have been out of OP's budget anyway.

 

[amd fanboy7]

if he's playing games like league of legends, minecraft, runescape, etc etc, then you dont even need a radoen 7850 or 660 / 660 ti or whatever. my brother's computer has a geforce gt 520 in it, and it palys WoW at high settings 70 frames per second, star wars the old republic low quality 45-60 frames per second, guild wars 2 at 25-40 frames per second. and all of the above performances are at 1080p. im not quite certain but im pretty sure its a $40 card or so..... so why not buy a radeon 6770? or a radeon 7770 which plays battlefield 3 (a moderately demanding game) smoothly at 1080p ultra settings? he doesnt need a radeon 7850 or better to play the games he is playing. sorry for poor punctuation, i hate typing. haha, regardless, hope you find what's best for your son!

Radeon 7770 newegg link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102993

GTX 560 256 bit version newegg link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162084

Radeon 6770 link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161387

in my opinion, the best out of those 3 would be the radeon 7770. but it's also the most expensive, but all 3 would do what your son wants to use them for, and more. happy hunting!

 

[prototype18]

Yet again, you use outdated reviews that display how wrong you are. None of your evidence is up to date and is thus all irrelevant. Furthermore, your own links state that the Asus has inferior cooling to the Gigabyte because it lacks memory cooling whereas the Gigabyte has it and shows that Gigabyte to be the better overclocking card with that taken into account. Furthermore, I looked all through the review and didn't see any mentioning of actually testing overclocks on these 7850s for absolute proof of the GPU overclocking advantage that you claim exists against the Gigabyte model.

Furthermore, yet again, you use an irrelevant GTX 660 article that is outdated and didn't make a relevant comparison for your examples anyway. SO hard to notice all of this, huh?

Even better is that you claim that a particular brand is better than another. That's incredibly wrong and ignores the fact that each model even within a given brand can have greatly varying quality. For example, the Radeon 7950 Ghost from XFX is a junk card, yet several other XFX models are nearly best in class. The same is true for some Asus and Gigabyte cards. Branding is almost irrelevant, what matters is the individual card.

Regardless of all of that, all of your examples have been out of OP's budget anyway.

Well you are saying you are up to date. Go on plz.

Where did you see that "out of OP's budget anyway" ???

197$ that Asus 7xxx card. And 190$ Gtx 660 Asus.


So read again those links

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Direct_Cu_II/30.html

Asus went higher than gigabyte and than 7870(7850 its not even in the chart)

To END it

660 is on par with 7870 on stock.

Cheers !!

 

[blazorthon]

Well you are saying you are up to date. Go on plz.

Where did you see that "out of OP's budget anyway" ???

197$ that Asus 7xxx card. And 190$ Gtx 660 Asus.


So read again those links

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Direct_Cu_II/30.html

Asus went higher than gigabyte and than 7870(7850 its not even in the chart)

To END it

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_Performance/images/perfrel.gif

660 is on par with 7870 on stock.

Cheers !!

Out of date because they don't use current drivers nor drivers that are at least similar in performance to current drivers. That makes all of your links irrelevant. Furthermore, with current drivers, the 660 is between the 7850 and the 7870 with even the 660 Ti being about on-par with the 7870, but even then, still a little behind (Nvidia's first card that truly beats the 7870 is the 670, the only 660 Ti that I've aware of that truly meets or beats it overall it is the Zotac model that has 6.6GHz effective memory and even then, it's still too close to see the difference anyway until you jump up to the 670).

Furthermore, your prices aren't what I'm seeing when I open up your links. I see $207 (soon to be $225) for the 7850 and $200 for the 660. $200 counts as in the budget, but when I first checked, it said $250, hence my complaint about it.

 

[blazorthon]

if he's playing games like league of legends, minecraft, runescape, etc etc, then you dont even need a radoen 7850 or 660 / 660 ti or whatever. my brother's computer has a geforce gt 520 in it, and it palys WoW at high settings 70 frames per second, star wars the old republic low quality 45-60 frames per second, guild wars 2 at 25-40 frames per second. and all of the above performances are at 1080p. im not quite certain but im pretty sure its a $40 card or so..... so why not buy a radeon 6770? or a radeon 7770 which plays battlefield 3 (a moderately demanding game) smoothly at 1080p ultra settings? he doesnt need a radeon 7850 or better to play the games he is playing. sorry for poor punctuation, i hate typing. haha, regardless, hope you find what's best for your son!

Radeon 7770 newegg link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102993

GTX 560 256 bit version newegg link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162084

Radeon 6770 link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161387

in my opinion, the best out of those 3 would be the radeon 7770. but it's also the most expensive, but all 3 would do what your son wants to use them for, and more. happy hunting!

It takes a factory overclocked 7770 such as the Sapphire OC or Vapor-X or the XFX Black Edition to best the 560. All other versions of the 7770 that I'm aware of are a little inferior in performance to it. I'm also wondering why you say that the 7770 is more expensive than the 560; I don't know any site that doesn't sell many 7770 models cheaper then their cheapest 560. There may be a few cases of a 560 SE being sold closer to the 7770 pricing and maybe even below it, but the 560 SE is an inferior card compared to the 560 and is still extrmely power-hungry compared to the slightly faster 7770.

The 6770 is by far the weakest of them while still being much less energy efficient than the 7770 (the only Radeon 6xxx card that uses less power than the 7770 is the 6450 and not by a whole lot. The 7770 is between the 6850 and the 6870 overall in performance, usually closer to the 6850 (not for the three above-mentioned models, but for most others) and the 6770 is not too different in pricing, making the 6770 a poor recommendation.

Also, a 7770 can't play BF3 in real-world gaming 1080p in Ultra. Even the 7850 almost struggles to do that in multi-player, which is what is usually played in BF3.

 

[prototype18]

Out of date because they don't use current drivers nor drivers that are at least similar in performance to current drivers. That makes all of your links irrelevant. Furthermore, with current drivers, the 660 is between the 7850 and the 7870 with even the 660 Ti being about on-par with the 7870, but even then, still a little behind (Nvidia's first card that truly beats the 7870 is the 670, the only 660 Ti that I've aware of that truly meets or beats it overall it is the Zotac model that has 6.6GHz effective memory and even then, it's still too close to see the difference anyway until you jump up to the 670).

Furthermore, your prices aren't what I'm seeing when I open up your links. I see $207 (soon to be $225) for the 7850 and $200 for the 660. $200 counts as in the budget, but when I first checked, it said $250, hence my complaint about it.

Well WATCH the last pic ! With NEW driver !!!!!!

And srry but u must be blind.

There is a big GREEN price !

 

[blazorthon]

Well WATCH the last pic ! With NEW driver !!!!!!

And srry but u must be blind.

There is a big GREEN price !

The pic is still out of date (there has been SEVEN releases since it came out, two of which were major performance improvements and several others were minor performance improvements, the rest were just bug fixes) and the GREEN prices are including MIRs, something that is both not guaranteed to be given and not guaranteed to be given in actual money if given. A small cost gift card to NCIX is not exactly useful for most people, making it potentially no money back at all.

 

[prototype18]

The pic is still out of date (there has been SEVEN releases since it came out, two of which were major performance improvements and several others were minor performance improvements, the rest were just bug fixes) and the GREEN prices are including MIRs, something that is both not guaranteed to be given and not guaranteed to be given in actual money if given. A small cost gift card to NCIX is not exactly useful for most people, making it potentially no money back at all.

Well you SHOULD consider those rebates. They are handy even if u need some time to take it.

If that what u think even Nvidia releases new drivers its not just ATI !

http://www.techpowerup.com/167887/New-NVIDIA-GeForce-304.48-Beta-Drivers-Improve-Performance-Fix-V-Sync-Issues.html

So stop being blinded by AMD.

 

[blazorthon]

Well you SHOULD consider those rebates. They are handy even if u need some time to take it.

If that what u think even Nvidia releases new drivers its not just ATI !

http://www.techpowerup.com/167887/New-NVIDIA-GeForce-304.48-Beta-Drivers-Improve-Performance-Fix-V-Sync-Issues.html

So stop being blinded by AMD.

I'm not blinded. Nvidia's releases barely closes the gap between AMD and Nvidia with the first 12.11 release. AMD's concurrent 12.11 increased the gap.

There's a difference between being blinded and keeping up with current information.

You're still assuming that you will get the rebates and that it can be useful to OP, two assumptions that should not be made without more information on the second and the first can't be proven until OP receives it anyway. Whether or not the rebates are useful to YOU does not mean that they're useful to OP and that is what matters. I won't count them as anything more than what they are, potentially money back, not guaranteed money back.

 

[prototype18]

I'm not blinded. Nvidia's releases barely closes the gap between AMD and Nvidia with the first 12.11 release. AMD's concurrent 12.11 increased the gap.

There's a difference between being blinded and keeping up with current information.

You're still assuming that you will get the rebates and that it can be useful to OP, two assumptions that should not be made without more information on the second and the first can't be proven until OP receives it anyway. Whether or not the rebates are useful to YOU does not mean that they're useful to OP and that is what matters. I won't count them as anything more than what they are, potentially money back, not guaranteed money back.

http://www.techpowerup.com/175825/NVIDIA-Rolls-Out-the-GeForce-310.61-Beta-Drivers.html

 

[blazorthon]

http://www.techpowerup.com/175825/NVIDIA-Rolls-Out-the-GeForce-310.61-Beta-Drivers.html

Yeah, I read that on the day of its publication, downloaded the driver, and tested it on multiple Nvidia cards of mine and some friends including my 8500 GT and a few GTX 4xx/5xx/6xx cards. It in no way proves me wrong.

 

[amd fanboy7]

I have personally seen a 7770 ghz edition (yes, factory overclocked) play BF3 online multiplayer 1080p around 50 fps, but 100% of the time it's above 30 fps. the screen is only 19" but regardless.

youre missing the point though blazor, youre just here to tell people theyre wrong. this guy's looking for a video card for his son, and all i did was tell him that if the kid is ONLY playing the listed games, then why not save the cash and go for a lesser card? or if he wants to play games like swtor/guild wars 2/bf3 then it would be viable to buy the 660 or 7850.

also, a message to the OP real quick... radeon 6870's (VERY solid card, i dont care what anyone says) are very cheap right now because amd stopped producing them. i think i saw one on newegg for like $160? not sure, dont quote me on that

it's people like you, blazorthon, that ruin sites like these. if you cant make a good recommendation to the OP then don't post.

 

[amd fanboy7]

God, you two are arguing like children in a walmart toy aisle...

 

[prototype18]

I have personally seen a 7770 ghz edition (yes, factory overclocked) play BF3 online multiplayer 1080p around 50 fps, but 100% of the time it's above 30 fps. the screen is only 19" but regardless.

youre missing the point though blazor, youre just here to tell people theyre wrong. this guy's looking for a video card for his son, and all i did was tell him that if the kid is ONLY playing the listed games, then why not save the cash and go for a lesser card? or if he wants to play games like swtor/guild wars 2/bf3 then it would be viable to buy the 660 or 7850.

also, a message to the OP real quick... radeon 6870's (VERY solid card, i dont care what anyone says) are very cheap right now because amd stopped producing them. i think i saw one on newegg for like $160? not sure, dont quote me on that

it's people like you, blazorthon, that ruin sites like these. if you cant make a good recommendation to the OP then don't post.

Thank you for understanding me.

Hd 6870 was 130 on newegg even cheaper and does really good too.

And about the 7770 you are right too. Tons of youtube videos.

But he better of getting 660 /7850.

@blazorthon

You just dont want to admit it.

Cya

 

[blazorthon]

I have personally seen a 7770 ghz edition (yes, factory overclocked) play BF3 online multiplayer 1080p around 50 fps, but 100% of the time it's above 30 fps. the screen is only 19" but regardless.

youre missing the point though blazor, youre just here to tell people theyre wrong. this guy's looking for a video card for his son, and all i did was tell him that if the kid is ONLY playing the listed games, then why not save the cash and go for a lesser card? or if he wants to play games like swtor/guild wars 2/bf3 then it would be viable to buy the 660 or 7850.

also, a message to the OP real quick... radeon 6870's (VERY solid card, i dont care what anyone says) are very cheap right now because amd stopped producing them. i think i saw one on newegg for like $160? not sure, dont quote me on that

it's people like you, blazorthon, that ruin sites like these. if you cant make a good recommendation to the OP then don't post.

I made the best possible recommendation within OP's budget. I explained why recommendations made by others were wrong. If you can't handle being told that you're wrong and why you're wrong, then it is you who is ruining this site. The point of these forums is to give the best advice and that is what I gave. Notice how I didn't say that the 7770 was a bad example for a cheaper card than my recommendation, I was simply being realistic about its performance.

The 560 is a bad recommendation because you were wrong about it's pricing and performance (neither of which make it a better recommendation than one of the best 7770s which are cheaper and on-par in performance) and it is an extremely less power-efficient card. The 6770 is a bad recommendation because it is weaker, still more power-hungry, and usually about the same price to a mere slightly cheaper (where the 7750 still beats it in performance slightly while using much less power). Furthermore, the 6870 is a recommendation for the same reasons as the 560.

I've tested several 7770s and can attest to it by my own experience with it. It can play BF3 MP at 1080p even in Ultra, but it can not do so well. Only the best models can do so well and even then, the difference between them and a stock reference 7850 is quite noticeable, especially compared to a stock 7850 such as the Gigabyte that I suggested and even to greater degree, an overclocked 7850.

If I'm ruining the site by explaining what is and isn't bad for OP, then the site is already ruined by those whom claim that I'm ruining it.

 

[blazorthon]

Thank you for understanding me.

Hd 6870 was 130 on newegg even cheaper and does really good too.

And about the 7770 you are right too. Tons of youtube videos.

But he better of getting 660 /7850.

@blazorthon

You just dont want to admit it.

Cya

I have nothing to admit against because I'm right.