Please help me comprehend ATI cards names

MilamberPOL

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I was hoping to find a FAQ on this but didn't. I ran my old GeForce 2 into the ground and I was looking to replace it. Ultimately I bought a Geforce Fx 5900 Ultra (Which I am very happy with). The price was right on the the Geforce compared to the ATI cards, but I was really confused by all the flavors ATI offerd.

I was looking at the 9800 series.

(+) AIW SE appears to be the most expensive (Special Edition???)
- What does All in Wonder (AIW) really mean?
- What are the advantages over the next ATI board?

(+) XT classic was the next most expensive
- Ok this one really baffled me what is XT?
- Advantages, compared with AIW?

(+) Pro next most expensive
- I guess this is the suped up version of the 9800.
- How does this compare to the XT and the AIW SE?

(+) Normal 9800
- Basic ATI card, right?
- Disadvantages, it was the least expensive, it has to have a disadvantage or three.



--C
 

cleeve

Illustrious
9800 XT = Top of the line, auto overclocking 9800
9800 PRO = Top-of-the-line before the XT, "PRO" is the equivalent to Nvidia's "Ultra"
9800 = underclocked 9800 PRO, still excellent
9800 SE = Crippled version with half the pipelines and bandwidth


A-I-W (the all-in-wonder cards) is a separate line of cards altogether that offers a TV tuner, VIVO, and special software to make your computer attach to a television and be used as a home theatre/video editing system.

So a 9800SE A-I-W is a 9800SE card with the A-I-W features onboard. Not the fastest 9800, but because of the features of the AIW it costs more.

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Also slip in between R9800Pro and the R9800 the XL

R9800XT
R9800Pro
R9800XL (mainly in Europe and Asia)
R9800
R9800SE 256bit memory
R9800SE 128bit memory

Just to cover them 'all'.

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Yeah, and my favourite line of the above would be this;

<font color=green>The price was right on the the Geforce compared to the ATI cards</font color=green>

Ok, sure, in what way?

And was that 'ultra' a real ultra or a pseudo one like I've seen from a bunch of places?


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Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
SE is the LEAST expensive. The 9800SE is slower than the 9600 Pro. SE is junk.

XT is the best
Pro was the former best
Non-Pro (standard) is very good.

XT, Pro, and Non-Pro are all the same cards, clocked differently, sometimes with different memory chips.

The 9800SE is the same card as the 9500 non-pro.

There are no real disadvantages between the 9800 and the 9800XT, for example, except for clock speed, which affects how fast the card can operate. And even then the speed difference isn't huge.

The 9800SE is the exception, it's a completely different, completely cheaper card. The start out with a defective 9800 chip, cut 4 rendering pipelines to stabilize it, and put it on a 9500 non-pro card.

Look at it this way, imagine if Ford had the Mustang with a V8, and the Escort with a 4 cylinder...but instead of making separate engines, they just took defective Mustang V8's with a dead cylinder and removed all the spark plugs from that side of the engine, then put that cripple engine in the Escort...would you buy such a car?

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bdaley

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Maybe if you had done this research before buying you would have gotten a higher-performing ATI card instead of that Nvidia P.O.S.

Why are you asking AFTER you purchased a card?

"I'm a man armed with a fork in a land of soup."
 

MilamberPOL

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There were three reasons I chose the Nvidia card, which by the way I am very happy with. Unreal Tournament runs VERY well at full AA/AF with all the eye candy cranked up. My other game Neverwinter Nights also runs very well on the FX 5900 Ultra.

1. Cost vs. performance. The FX 5900 Ultra was priced at $379, with a $40 rebate, so $339 (closeout of the 256 MB BFG card). The 9800 Pro was priced at $399, with no rebate. A $60 difference is not insignificant. The next video card by ATI available was the 9600 Pro for $169, and I was not going to drop that far back.

2. The selection of cards by ATI was too confusing and not worth the time to try and decipher. AIW, SE, Pro, XP, normal, AIW & SE, now I hear there is also an XL version. That is seven different flavors. I stood and read the boxes for about a half hour and that did not clear up the confusion, the store clerk did not have much additional information to offer. What is the old adage "Keep it Simple Stupid" ATI missed that big time. I like the Nvidia approach, Ultra or non-Ultra. If ATI wants to keep their multioption approach they need to provide at a minimum a poster or flip card that clearly identifies the differences in the cards.

3. Finally I had a bad experience with an ATI card about 4 years ago, it would have taken a significant performance difference and better cost to sway me back to ATI. It was going take more than brow beating on what is obviously a very biased message board to make me change my mind. Currently both ATI and Nvidia make good cards. From the published benchmarks ATI holds a slight edge, but the Nvidia cards are a far cry from junk as they are portrayed here.

The reason I asked the question after the fact was to attempt to help someone else who was facing the same dilemma I was. A little factual information goes a long way.


--C
 

cleeve

Illustrious
The reason Nvidia keeps it simple is to lie to their customers.

They don't have a separate name for their GeforceFX 5200's that are crippled with a 64 bit bus.

They simply call them GeforceFX 5200's, the same as the ones with a 128 bit bus.
With Ati's "confusing" name scheme, you at least know what you're buying.

Maybe the onus is on the purchaser to invest more than 10 minutes deciding which card to buy...

Caveat emptor.


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MilamberPOL

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Can you provide a reference for your statement about the "Crippled" bus speed. I can't seem to find any verifiable data to support that statement. The Nvidia Spec is for 128 bit bus.



--C
 

cleeve

Illustrious
It's actually quite well known that the majority of the cheapo versions of the GeforceFX 5200 have a 64 bit bus, but here's an old news link if you need one:

<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030412194528.html" target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030412194528.html</A>



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sargeduck

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hmmm, Nvidia isn't perfect. How about the 5900 xt? or the 5900 SE? Or what about a geforce 4Ti compared to a Geforce 4mx? Nvidia isn't any better in terms of names, it's just that ATI is more popular right now and their cards names get talked about more right now.

ATI only has 5 names: xt, pro, non-pro, and se. The AIW is a seperate card all together. I agree, they shouldn't have as many names, but it gets better. Those are just the labels that ATI has officially made. Then you got the 3rd parties making up names. Dell made the tx version. Powercube or somebody made a lite version. ATI doesn't have control over 3rd party naming schemes.

Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue
 

MilamberPOL

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I apologize, I should not be so hard on ATI becuase they are doing exactly what Nvidia did with the GeForce 4 series. I forgot how frustrating it was to see the 4Ti4200, 4Ti4600 and 4Ti4800 along side the 4MX. I have not see the 5900 xt, or 5900 SE in my market yet. Only the Ultra with 256 MB and the standard with 128 MB. That is a tanageble difference I can understand.

--C
 

MilamberPOL

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So let me understand better. The cheap versions of the 5200 which were advertised with 64 MB RAM had a 64 bit bus, but the more expensive 128 MB cards all had a 128 bit bus. Which happens to be the specification for 128 MB cards.

This sounds more like a manufacturer issue than one with the actual GPU.

--C
 

cleeve

Illustrious
Bus bandwidth *is* a manufacturer issue, with all cards.

GPUs in a 9200 and 9200 SE are identical. It's the manufacturers that cripple the SE's with a 64 bit bus, and call them an "SE", because it's cheaper to make them that way.

The only difference is that Ati has given them the guideline that they must call the crippled cards "SE"s.

Nvidia has given no such direction to their manufacturers... so geforceFX 5200 buyers are left high and dry.

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Radeon 9500 (hardmodded to PRO, o/c to 322/322)
AMD AthlonXP 2400+ (o/c to 2600+ with 143 fsb)
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vagabond

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for Ford the 351Cleveland, GM the 454SS, Mopar the 426Hemi, for out and out RAW Power the 427CJ!!!

Ummmmmm, am I on a tangent here???

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Also don't forget that there is a GF2 - MX/Ultra/ti/GTS and PRO; even worse an FX5600Ultra revision 1 and revision 2, which few people know/knew about (just like the 64/128 bit issue IMO).


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Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
The 231 was also based on a 350 V8, the 350 Buick!

GM started out in the early 60's with an aluminum block, dry sleeve engine called the 215 V8. The found if they removed the sleeves and used an iron block, they could make it much larger, and a few design changes later it was the 350 Buick. Then they took two cyclinders out of the middle and made the original (odd fire) 231 V6. And finally, they redesigned the crankshaft with offset pins to make the thing run more smoothly, and created the modern 3.8L (231 even fire V6).

Meanwhile, they SOLD the original aluminum blocked engine design to Rover, all Rover V8's are based on the Buick 215 V8 and most had interchangable parts.

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Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
429 Boss was a better engine than the 427CJ. It was Ford's version of the Hemi, but with Hemi being a registered trademark of Chrysler, they didn't call it a Hemi. That Ford engine design is still in use to this day, the basis of Ford Top Fuel engines.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
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Ford 3.8 nice motor except they use Alum heads on cast block. Blew head gasket on my 89 Couger. That was Ford's better idea. You have to buy new headbolts. You use the old ones head gasket leaks.
 

Vimp

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TheGreatGrapeApe wrote:
"Also don't forget that there is a GF2 - MX/Ultra/ti/GTS and PRO"

Or in my case a Creative labs Geforce 2 GTS/Pro combo.
 

vagabond

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Sorry forgot about the Boss429. I do love the old COBRAS though. I don't understand why HardwareBoss is hammering at aluminum block engines. My BMW 318i is aluminum and I can rev this sucker up to its redline without problems. Only thing you gotta watch out for is the engine temps. Have you ever driven a car at 130MPH and felt like you were going 60?

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