News Pocket Z project hopes to rekindle pocket PC form factor — with a Raspberry Pi Zero 2W inside

[Admin]

It may not be as powerful as your smartphone, but this UPMC is on the right track

Pocket Z project hopes to rekindle pocket PC form factor — with a Raspberry Pi Zero 2W inside : Read more

 

[LabRat 891]

Kinda feel like the R Pi mod space is over-saturated. NtM, lacking x86 leaves this concept 'kneecapped' out the gate.

Throw in an ultra-low TDP AMD APU or Intel chip, then maybe it'd be interesting.

 

[usertests]

Kinda feel like the R Pi mod space is over-saturated. NtM, lacking x86 leaves this concept 'kneecapped' out the gate.

Throw in an ultra-low TDP AMD APU or Intel chip, then maybe it'd be interesting.

There's certainly a lot of Alder Lake-N chips to go around, and they can run fanless, leaving a lot of performance on the table of course.

AMD's Mendocino is competitive with Alder Lake-N but is rare on the market. AMD clearly doesn't care to make enough of them.

Pi Zero 2W is a big improvement on the original with one glaring exception: the RAM, still stuck at 512 MB. 1 GB would have been much better, and at 2 GB it would be sufficient for many use cases.

 

[BleuCheddar]

UMPC, not UPMC...

 

[Notton]

I read the selling pitch page, and I'm not convinced this could be made for under $100.

The <$100 category is filled with cheap android smartphones that barely run android 11/12/13, or amazon's fire 7 tablet.
Once you get into the $180~$250 range, the smartphones and tablets become decent enough to run newer android versions smoothly.
The above prices don't include a keyboard cover or regular BT keyboard with stand.
For the 7" UMPC category, there is already the GPD win mini, but it has high end specs, so maybe they can bring the costs down by using a raspi or some other cheap soc.

• It has to be a true Linux computer and not just an other Android Smartphone (Gemini/Cosmo from Plant Computer, PinePhone, Astro Slide...)
• It needs to be powerful enough to run a Linux Desktop environment (while there is no need for it to be comparable to a smartphone level of performances)

These are oddly strict requirements, when all of the hardware for the cheap sub 10" screen device is purely android, and raspi itself can run android. I thought the main hurdle to this approach was lack of hardware documentation.

Best of luck to the creator.

 

[GoofyOne]

You can play 'what if' for a long time ... what if you used this or that or ...

The important thing is that someone is using their grey cells to create something. People making things with the Pi Zero and Pico Pi are awesome. 😎

{GoofyOne's 2c worth, which may or may not be actually worth 2c}

 

[Icepat]

Kinda feel like the R Pi mod space is over-saturated. NtM, lacking x86 leaves this concept 'kneecapped' out the gate.

Throw in an ultra-low TDP AMD APU or Intel chip, then maybe it'd be interesting.

Creator here : the goal of this project is not to compete with currently available laptops but bring back low cost PDA/UMPC. There is 7" x86 laptops available for like 250$ on Aliexpress already.

I read the selling pitch page, and I'm not convinced this could be made for under $100.

The <$100 category is filled with cheap android smartphones that barely run android 11/12/13, or amazon's fire 7 tablet.
Once you get into the $180~$250 range, the smartphones and tablets become decent enough to run newer android versions smoothly.
The above prices don't include a keyboard cover or regular BT keyboard with stand.
For the 7" UMPC category, there is already the GPD win mini, but it has high end specs, so maybe they can bring the costs down by using a raspi or some other cheap soc.


These are oddly strict requirements, when all of the hardware for the cheap sub 10" screen device is purely android, and raspi itself can run android. I thought the main hurdle to this approach was lack of hardware documentation.

Best of luck to the creator.

We are trying to get it to 99$ total (without the Pi) and while it will not be an easy task I believe it is indeed possible if we build 1000 of them. Currently the display cost like 15$ and the board itself cost 100$ with assembly but we only built 3. So we should be able to bring the board down to 20$ I think, then the keyboard and case woulc also be costly because we need to create an injection mould for each.

So if we can make it for 99$ it still has it's own little market I believe, for a cheap portable Linux terminal. There is no need for Android as there is plenty of Android devices available out there, the goal is to have a pocketable Linux computer.

The Raspberry Pis can run Android yes but we are using a Pi Zero 2W here which is the weakest of the Pi product available now (but also the cheapest), running Android on this one will not be a very enjoyable experience.

You can play 'what if' for a long time ... what if you used this or that or ...

The important thing is that someone is using their grey cells to create something. People making things with the Pi Zero and Pico Pi are awesome. 😎

{GoofyOne's 2c worth, which may or may not be actually worth 2c}

Thanks ! Please share your feedback as we want to build it for the community so we are open to suggestions & ideas !

 

[das_stig]

As a geriatric old school field engineer, something as small as this dual booting Linux/Windows for diagnostic/manuals would have been great rather than lumping around a laptop, especially if it came with a micro hdmi port to hook a monitor up when onsite

 

[Icepat]

As a geriatric old school field engineer, something as small as this dual booting Linux/Windows for diagnostic/manuals would have been great rather than lumping around a laptop, especially if it came with a micro hdmi port to hook a monitor up when onsite

That's one of the goal yes.

 

[TheJoker2020]

AMD clearly doesn't care to make enough of them.

AMD is selling them as fast as they can be made by TSMC.

 

[usertests]

AMD is selling them as fast as they can be made by TSMC.

Alder Lake-N is ubiquitous on the market, Mendocino is a unicorn. AMD has a number of other things they can make on N6.

 

[Pierce2623]

There's certainly a lot of Alder Lake-N chips to go around, and they can run fanless, leaving a lot of performance on the table of course.

AMD's Mendocino is competitive with Alder Lake-N but is rare on the market. AMD clearly doesn't care to make enough of them.

Pi Zero 2W is a big improvement on the original with one glaring exception: the RAM, still stuck at 512 MB. 1 GB would have been much better, and at 2 GB it would be sufficient for many use cases.

Mendocino is a good CPU but it is QUITE lacking on the GPU side.

 

[usertests]

Mendocino is a good CPU but it is QUITE lacking on the GPU side.

Lacking: yes. Better iGPU than any Raspberry Pi, comparable to Alder Lake-N. It's basically the same thing in Ryzen 7000 desktop chips, which are comparable to Alder Lake desktop UHD 770 (32 EUs). 32 EUs is in the Alder Lake-N chips N200, N300/N305.

Here's Ryzen 7000 2 CUs vs. UHD 770 (11900K/12900K)
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7700x/22.html
Similar performance in many cases, some outliers for either side.

Both Alder Lake-N and Mendocino added AV1 decode.

I think the other big thing is that it's limited by a 64-bit memory controller, same as Alder Lake-N. Another reason why they are two very comparable dies and should be direct competitors... if AMD was willing to dump them on the market like Intel has done with Alder Lake-N.

If AMD wants to change the low-end game, they can have their chance with "Sonoma Valley", a drop-in replacement (same FT6 socket) for Mendocino that uses 4x Zen 5c cores, according to leaks. Measure the IPC change between Zen 2 and Zen 5... that would be sweet, even if the iGPU is still lacking.

 

[TheJoker2020]

Alder Lake-N is ubiquitous on the market, Mendocino is a unicorn.

You appear to have missed the point, TWICE.!

AMD does not "make" ANY chips at all that are retailed, those are ALL made by TSMC.

 

[TheJoker2020]

AMD has a number of other things they can make on N6.

Yes, and no doubt some that produce far higher profit and/or are necessary for other products, and/or as part of the TSMC contract, TSMC no longer makes enough of the necessary silicon or associated packaging to fulfil this line, and so it was forced to be cut (I do not know this, this is speculation as part of the point), and the point is that we don't know.

 

[Pierce2623]

Lacking: yes. Better iGPU than any Raspberry Pi, comparable to Alder Lake-N. It's basically the same thing in Ryzen 7000 desktop chips, which are comparable to Alder Lake desktop UHD 770 (32 EUs). 32 EUs is in the Alder Lake-N chips N200, N300/N305.

Here's Ryzen 7000 2 CUs vs. UHD 770 (11900K/12900K)
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7700x/22.html
Similar performance in many cases, some outliers for either side.

Both Alder Lake-N and Mendocino added AV1 decode.

I think the other big thing is that it's limited by a 64-bit memory controller, same as Alder Lake-N. Another reason why they are two very comparable dies and should be direct competitors... if AMD was willing to dump them on the market like Intel has done with Alder Lake-N.

If AMD wants to change the low-end game, they can have their chance with "Sonoma Valley", a drop-in replacement (same FT6 socket) for Mendocino that uses 4x Zen 5c cores, according to leaks. Measure the IPC change between Zen 2 and Zen 5... that would be sweet, even if the iGPU is still lacking.

Oh I don’t disagree at all. I use my Mendocino machine mostly for ps2 emulation at 2x resolution and it basically does it with the same amount of power use as a flagship cellphone chip. It’s extremely impressive at low TDP.

 

[Evan Edwards]

As somebody who is highly interested in this form factor, I believe that the closest thing that exists currently is the Pine Phone coupled with the integrated keyboard. It provides a clamshell factor similar to the HP 95LX and Windows CE machines that made up the PDA category of palm tops.

 

[usertests]

Yes, and no doubt some that produce far higher profit and/or are necessary for other products, and/or as part of the TSMC contract, TSMC no longer makes enough of the necessary silicon or associated packaging to fulfil this line, and so it was forced to be cut (I do not know this, this is speculation as part of the point), and the point is that we don't know.

N6 was supposed to be a long-lived node for TSMC. AMD does continue to mAkE I/O dies on N6, as well as the Navi 33 die. One of the leaked roadmaps indicates that Rembrandt-R on N6 continues to be produced (or sold) in 2025, as well as Mendocino. They should call it the Ryzen AI-Less 7 H 080U.

If Samsung makes Sonoma Valley on a 4nm node or something, that could be a positive development for the low-end. Let's not target quad-core systems at $700 again.

As somebody who is highly interested in this form factor, I believe that the closest thing that exists currently is the Pine Phone coupled with the integrated keyboard. It provides a clamshell factor similar to the HP 95LX and Windows CE machines that made up the PDA category of palm tops.

Here's a couple without a clamshell design, but using Raspberry Pi Compute Modules:

terminal News - CNX Software - Embedded Systems News

Read the latest terminal news on CNX Software - Embedded Systems News

www.cnx-software.com

And some clamshells:

Cosmo Communicator 2-in-1 Smartphone & Pocket Computer Runs Android 9, Linux - CNX Software

In recent years, we've started to see Windows 10 mini laptops with 6" to 8" display and a foldable keyboard coming to market thanks to products such as

www.cnx-software.com

GPD Pocket 2 Amber Black is a Cheaper Mini laptop with Celeron 3965Y Processor - CNX Software

GPD introduced their latest Pocket 2 mini laptop via a crowdfunding campaign last summer. The device packs a Intel Core m3-7y30 Kaby Lake processor

www.cnx-software.com

Gemini PDA Pocket PC Runs Android & Linux on Mediatek X25 Deca-Core Processor (Crowdfunding) - CNX Software

GPD Pocket 7" portable computer running Windows or Ubuntu Linux is getting some competition, as Gemini PDA has a similar form factor with a 5.7" display

www.cnx-software.com

GPD Pocket 2 is also using 7-inch like the prototype, but is probably too big. Cosmo Communicator and Gemini PDA look like they fit the bill at around 5.7-6 inches. I'm probably only scratching the surface here, but it's a relatively rare form factor. Everyone and their brother are making keyboard-less Steam Deck clones these days.

 

[Evan Edwards]

GPD Pocket 2 is also using 7-inch like the prototype, but is probably too big. Cosmo Communicator and Gemini PDA look like they fit the bill at around 5.7-6 inches. I'm probably only scratching the surface here, but it's a relatively rare form factor. Everyone and their brother are making keyboard-less Steam Deck clones these days.

Agreed that it is too big; that's why I suggested the PinePhone, which is 25% smaller than the GPD Pocket 2. It's also a fifth of the price of the Android based feature phone Cosmo Astro Slide... but Pine64 appears to not have the PinePhone Pro and Keyboard in stock currently. The Cosmo Communicator is on sale as I type this, and is temping. Thanks for the reminder!

I couldn't find a good solution when I went looking a few years ago, so I now have a small 11" Chromebook I carry with Linux support that allows me to SSH and run the Android and Linux apps I need (I carry my Linux laptop if I know I will be working). When it ends its useful cycle, I'll likely look around again. I'd like have a pocket-able system again, especially when riding a motorcycle.