Question POE Cables considered to be Good or degraded if they stop working unless a booster is added ?

[miogpsrocks]

ADT installed a 8 POE Camera system. The 8 POE camera are connected to the NVR which has POE ports.

NVR worked fine for years, but slowly cameras stop working one by one. Until half the Camera stop working.

The only way in which they can get these Cameras sort of working, is to add a POE booster switch in order to get these Cameras power/signal.

My question is if these POE cables that no longer work in the NVR as originally setup, would the cables be considered degraded, or is the fact they will still go online with a booster considered working?

I'm not sure if this is a gray area or not. Is it like buying a high end $10,000 coffee maker and having it repair under warranty by using duct tape to attach a $10 Walmart Mr.Coffee to it and saying you got it making coffee again.

What do you guys think of this situation? Are these POE cables degraded or not?

 

[punkncat]

I am not specifically familiar with what ADT is using for their 'generic' camera system. Do any of these cables run outside in sunlight and weather?
Is the power supply for these cameras some cheap all in one solution?

Good camera systems can be a serious investment. Running the proper cabling and protection for said added on top can be insanely expensive. I cannot consider that anything that ADT offered as their "add on camera security" package to be of significant quality such that you can be tapped to pay up again later to "upgrade" them.

I have worked in the alarm/security/low voltage industry for decades now and will say that ADT are some shifty folks to deal with on a variety of fronts. I will tell you this much. If you opt to take that system down, set it aside somewhere because it is highly possible that you don't own it. This has been a VERY common practice with their burg panels over the years. When I replace one I put all the parts in a box and specifically tell the customer to put them somewhere till they know for sure ADT isn't going to backcharge them for not returning it.

 

[miogpsrocks]

I am not specifically familiar with what ADT is using for their 'generic' camera system. Do any of these cables run outside in sunlight and weather?
Is the power supply for these cameras some cheap all in one solution?

Good camera systems can be a serious investment. Running the proper cabling and protection for said added on top can be insanely expensive. I cannot consider that anything that ADT offered as their "add on camera security" package to be of significant quality such that you can be tapped to pay up again later to "upgrade" them.

I have worked in the alarm/security/low voltage industry for decades now and will say that ADT are some shifty folks to deal with on a variety of fronts. I will tell you this much. If you opt to take that system down, set it aside somewhere because it is highly possible that you don't own it. This has been a VERY common practice with their burg panels over the years. When I replace one I put all the parts in a box and specifically tell the customer to put them somewhere till they know for sure ADT isn't going to backcharge them for not returning it.

On a side note, I purchased a large vacation home as an investment and hired ADT to set up the alarm system. The guys come over, what is supposed to be a free evaluation. He starts out by taking a hammer a punching a hole though the wall and starts like grabbing at the wires before we even told him if he had the job or not. It was like those old school door to door vacuum salesman that would start out by dumping dirt into your house the minute you open the door to demonstrate the vacuum cleaner.

The house was a "smart house" wired with all sorts of dimmable lights which he attaches with tons of adjustable power ranges connected to various systems and mood lighting from using expensive but old 90's tech. The guy did not even have a ladder and would stand up on top of the kitchen counter with muddy shoes, etc..

The alarm system as if they were always on power lines to variable power dimmable power relays. The house was so large and the capabilities of the ADT system were so weak, he installed it as if it were multiple houses all in 1 house. This ended up by us being sent multiple bills as if we had it installed on multiple houses even know it was 1 house. The fluctuating power for the dimmable lights like screwed up the alarm and the fire department showed up with the biggest firetruck they had with fully geared up fight fighters bursting into the house. The system never worked, we would get multiple random bills as if we had multiple alarm system even know it was one house. The house thing was a disaster. They eventually were told to get all their equipment and leave, and we had a real alarm company come in and property set up an alarm system. Also, ADT appears to be different from state to state. In the state of this vacation home, they seem much worse than normal. The entire experience was a nightmare.

Ok, back to the camera issue. ADT has like 2 different type of Cameras department. They have like a low-end consumer cameras and higher end professional camera. I have the higher end professional cameras installed which seem like a good idea at the time however they have a NVR that is design to be mounted on server rack sitting next to my office computer with very small but extremely loud fans(design for a server room) instead of having a larger, slower and quiet fan as they should. However, the NVR overbearing sound is a story for another day.

My ADT CCTV a DAHUA system with the NVR modified to say ADT when you login. They require a long and complex password and does not have the ability to connect a keyboard. ( Also a story for another day)

Cameras I assume are also DAHUA. Power also, the supply is POE originally from the NVR but later a switch/booster was added to amplify the power to the Cameras to make up for I assume is the increase resistance of the cable due to them being degraded.

I don't think it's a bad power supply to the NVR because the NVR was switched out for a new one, but it has the same issue.

Cables are outdoor rated CAT6, but there is no conduit for production, they just buried the cable directly into the ground. Some areas they are tied to the ceiling, like in the craw space under my house.

I think having a cable buried underground without a conduit has degraded the cable overtime and cause increase resistance, so the power provided by the NVR no longer works even know it had worked for years previously. The only way the Cameras will still turn on is with a boost of power by using POE switches with the maximum power per POI port, basically pushing the power though by brute force. At least, that is my theory.

How long should a direct buried CAT 6 cable last outside underground?

Thanks.

 

[bill001g]

In many ways you are lucky the camera system can be fixed with a simple poe switch. The term POE doesn't really mean much.
There is the standard 802.3af/at type of poe that something like a switch would have and then there are the rest of the proprietary things that call themselves poe. Those you never really know what voltages etc they are using. Many camera type dvr systems intentionally are non standard to force you to only use their equipment.

My guess would more be the ADT box that is providing the power is defective in someway. I could see one wire maybe going bad if it say was damaged maybe because it is exposed outdoors but multiple is not very likely.

The only exception would be if the wire was maybe CCA wire rather than pure copper. That is not a certified type of cable to use for ethernet and has a lot of issue with poe at longer length. But I do not think this is the case either because a new poe switch should also have issue with the cables.

 

[punkncat]

Man...I mean the moment the hammer to wall and/or boots (mud or not) on the counter I would have sent them on their way.

I am not personally familiar with the brand Dahua, so really can't say. I know in the burg realm that ADT often used rebranded Ademco (Honeywell) systems that are fairly robust if not one of the best UI around.

Direct burial cable and direct sunlight cable (aerial) are NOT often the same wire. There are testers available that can give a reading on how much signal loss is being measured from one end to the other. Good ones can be expensive enough that it can be worth considering paying an independent professional to check them without the learning curve of trying to purchase one and figure out what you are doing...
If the runs are over ~300' or even close to it, and not a high quality cable you may well be at the physical limitation of the wiring. If these runs had to be piecemeal together and 'stolen' (as it were) from their intended use case that can lead to other issues. Junctions and splices cause additional length loss. Just like any wire, distance reduces voltage. Most VDC components run on a range of power. For instance many items "rated" for 12VDC can actually run up to 14 and often down to around 9.

In a situation where you have a good looking and finished facade/paint/woodwork you may consider replacement with good wireless. Physical cabling can be superior in some ways but is susceptible to surge/lighting. Wireless can eliminate that danger to multiple devices but is also susceptible to jammers/hack and such you read about (and is true).

This is a tough spot. As mentioned above, if you have found a workable solution for now, I would kick this issue down the road until the next roadblock and deal with it then. My own uninformed professional opinion based only on what you typed and I have never seen would be to review and vet good independent installers and consider going wireless on the update. No telling where tech and resolution will be then.