[Pos] Spiders

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Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?
 
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On 2005-03-27 00:20:10, Polarhound <Polarhound@comcast.net> wrote:

> Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?
>
>

Actually going to start working on one soon. I was to try and get some feedback
up for possible tweaking.

So far I have played;

Red Dragon - Feels good.
White Dragon - Same as Red, slightly weaker at start.
Shadow Dragon - Terrible saves, blue eyes were owning me until I started
leveling.
Hydra - Balanced I would say. Quite fun, although it doesnt say in the monster
text file they can wear multiple amulets. (Only states headgear)
Drow - Now this needs some discussion. Until drow hit 15 they are the most
fragile class in the world. :( I lost about twenty, and I consider myself a
reasonable angband player (speccing in warrior classes) As soon as I hit 15 was
able to flick to warrior and now have one at 30.

Spider...yeah phase looks quite interesting, just have to see how it works out.
I want to try and get one finisher in before the next version comes out so I
can work on a beholder. :)

--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 
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Polarhound wrote:
> Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?

I have tried. Biggest problem is the high speed bonus which in my case
leads to greed, arrogance, and YASD. If you get deeper, the big problem
is +15 to speed and two boot slots. You get huge speed but getting
good stat bonuses form the remaining slots is a problem.
 
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On 2005-03-29 08:41:45, Polarhound <Polarhound@comcast.net> wrote:

> Juho Schultz wrote:
> > Polarhound wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?
> >
> >
> > I have tried. Biggest problem is the high speed bonus which in my case
> > leads to greed, arrogance, and YASD. If you get deeper, the big problem
> > is +15 to speed and two boot slots. You get huge speed but getting
> > good stat bonuses form the remaining slots is a problem.
>
> You should of seen when I had a Red Dragon at +67 hasted, at the expense
> of everything else :)
>
> Here's the current incarnation of my spider:
>

Wow thats pretty nice Polar, mine bit the dust last night at 1800 ft in a
Special Quest. Were three uniques inside (all terribly out of depth) and one
Maia. Stun breath = -24 health and game over. :(

--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 

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Alexander Ulyanov wrote:
> I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
> are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.

I think we need more data. I have chosen Araneas so far because they
look more fun, but Phase Spider doesn't look impossible. The main
problem a spider has is getting a decent attack, and nexus storm should
be enough, I would think. And increased speed should make up for
weaker attacks and lack of summoning. It's just a different style of
play.

Nick.
 
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On 2005-03-27 01:03:25, Severoth <severoth@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> On 2005-03-27 00:20:10, Polarhound wrote:
> > Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?

I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.

> Hydra - Balanced I would say. Quite fun, although it doesnt say in the monster
> text file they can wear multiple amulets. (Only states headgear)

I thought it was obvious. They have several heads, and heads are
located on the necks :).

> Drow - Now this needs some discussion. Until drow hit 15 they are the most
> fragile class in the world. :( I lost about twenty, and I consider myself a
> reasonable angband player (speccing in warrior classes) As soon as I hit 15 was
> able to flick to warrior and now have one at 30.

I expected them to be somewhat fragile. Are they that hard?

--
Alexander Ulyanov, maintainer of PosBand roguelike
E-mail: posband_AT_earthsea_DOT_org Web: http://posband.earthsea.org/
"Just an arbitrary set of rules like ... what's that thing you British play?"
- "Cricket? Self-loathing?" - "Parliamentary democracy." -- Mostly Harmless
 
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Alexander Ulyanov wrote:
> On 2005-03-27 01:03:25, Severoth <severoth@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-03-27 00:20:10, Polarhound wrote:
>>
>>>Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?
>
>
> I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
> are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.

The only thing I might like changed so far is to add sleep to one of the
attacks for Phase Spiders. Before I hit lvl25, it made a huge
difference when fighting uniques and mobs as I could put the first one
in a row to sleep, go around the corner and heal up, then come back.
 
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On 2005-03-30 00:53:59, Alexander Ulyanov <posband@earthsea.org> wrote:

> On 2005-03-27 01:03:25, Severoth wrote:
> > On 2005-03-27 00:20:10, Polarhound wrote:
> > > Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?
>
> I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
> are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.
>
> > Hydra - Balanced I would say. Quite fun, although it doesnt say in the monster
> > text file they can wear multiple amulets. (Only states headgear)
>
> I thought it was obvious. They have several heads, and heads are
> located on the necks :).
>
> > Drow - Now this needs some discussion. Until drow hit 15 they are the most
> > fragile class in the world. :( I lost about twenty, and I consider myself a
> > reasonable angband player (speccing in warrior classes) As soon as I hit 15 was
> > able to flick to warrior and now have one at 30.
>
> I expected them to be somewhat fragile. Are they that hard?

Terribly fragile is an understatement. You should really try playing them. Fell
down a few pits and had auto death, was one hit killed by some mobs. Was just a
painful experience. But hey, I am going to try a fire or water elemental soon
and I expect that to be even worse...only problem is what do I want...no recall
or no potions? :)

Also the Shadow Drake is very weak as well. I dont walk next to floating eyes
because the saves are so attrocious they get locked in permanent para and just
killed. (I will be trying another one though, the breathe raw mana looks
great!)

> --
> Alexander Ulyanov, maintainer of PosBand roguelike
> E-mail: posband_AT_earthsea_DOT_org Web: http://posband.earthsea.org/
> "Just an arbitrary set of rules like ... what's that thing you British play?"
> - "Cricket? Self-loathing?" - "Parliamentary democracy." -- Mostly Harmless
>
>


--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 
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Severoth wrote:
> On 2005-03-30 00:53:59, Alexander Ulyanov <posband@earthsea.org> wrote:
>
>
>>On 2005-03-27 01:03:25, Severoth wrote:
>>
>>>On 2005-03-27 00:20:10, Polarhound wrote:
>>>
>>>>Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?
>>
>>I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
>>are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.
>>
>>
>>>Hydra - Balanced I would say. Quite fun, although it doesnt say in the monster
>>>text file they can wear multiple amulets. (Only states headgear)
>>
>>I thought it was obvious. They have several heads, and heads are
>>located on the necks :).
>>
>>
>>>Drow - Now this needs some discussion. Until drow hit 15 they are the most
>>>fragile class in the world. :( I lost about twenty, and I consider myself a
>>>reasonable angband player (speccing in warrior classes) As soon as I hit 15 was
>>>able to flick to warrior and now have one at 30.
>>
>>I expected them to be somewhat fragile. Are they that hard?
>
>
> Terribly fragile is an understatement. You should really try playing them. Fell
> down a few pits and had auto death, was one hit killed by some mobs. Was just a
> painful experience. But hey, I am going to try a fire or water elemental soon
> and I expect that to be even worse...only problem is what do I want...no recall
> or no potions? :)

Both are playable. I have a Lvl50 Water Elemental parked at 3100' that
I just haven't gotten back to yet (back before you could use Water pots
to heal), and a Lvl26 Magma Elemental as a Hardcore character as he can
use the walls for food. I don't remember what depth I have him on, but
I've been taking it slow and easy.
 
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On 2005-03-30 04:26:51, "Nick" <nckmccnnll@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> Alexander Ulyanov wrote:
> > I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
> > are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.
>
> I think we need more data. I have chosen Araneas so far because they
> look more fun, but Phase Spider doesn't look impossible. The main
> problem a spider has is getting a decent attack, and nexus storm should
> be enough, I would think. And increased speed should make up for
> weaker attacks and lack of summoning. It's just a different style of
> play.
>
> Nick.

Nick has a good point...once I was able to get going I was literally destroying
every unique I came across. But weak is an understatement, with two attacks
that dont have any elemental damage and thus do "full" damage all the time you
need to pack major bonuses to melay damage to stand a chance.

You do have nexus, and it is handy, but I fear as you get deeper the damage is
just not going to scale properly with the monsters. Granted you will need a
level 50 phase to truly see.

One of the biggest problems I had with my phase spider was how the webs work.
Due to the fact that over and above an Aranea you need to web so much, the
chance that your loot will dissappear in a corridor becomes higher.

Any chance we can change the status of the webbing so items can drop on them
like normal floor tiles?

--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 
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Polarhound wrote:
> Alexander Ulyanov wrote:
>
>> On 2005-03-27 01:03:25, Severoth <severoth@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2005-03-27 00:20:10, Polarhound wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to
>>>> beat?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
>> are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.
>
>
> The only thing I might like changed so far is to add sleep to one of the
> attacks for Phase Spiders. Before I hit lvl25, it made a huge
> difference when fighting uniques and mobs as I could put the first one
> in a row to sleep, go around the corner and heal up, then come back.

The Phase Spider is about to get it's first real test.

http://ttfk.com/dump.html

To be honest, it would be nice to see the nexus damage scale up a bit
more, especially considering it's the primary attack.
 
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On 2005-03-30 00:53:59, Alexander Ulyanov <posband@earthsea.org> wrote:

> On 2005-03-27 01:03:25, Severoth wrote:
> > On 2005-03-27 00:20:10, Polarhound wrote:
> > > Has anyone chosen the phase spider route over Aranea? Too tough to beat?
>
> I think yes. If people have problems with Araneas, Phase spiders
> are going to be one big irritation. I'll see what I can do.
>
> > Hydra - Balanced I would say. Quite fun, although it doesnt say in the monster
> > text file they can wear multiple amulets. (Only states headgear)
>
> I thought it was obvious. They have several heads, and heads are
> located on the necks :).
>
> > Drow - Now this needs some discussion. Until drow hit 15 they are the most
> > fragile class in the world. :( I lost about twenty, and I consider myself a
> > reasonable angband player (speccing in warrior classes) As soon as I hit 15 was
> > able to flick to warrior and now have one at 30.
>
> I expected them to be somewhat fragile. Are they that hard?

IMHO no, I think they are fine. It takes a fair bit of effort to get them past
the early levels, but then so do Hobbit Priests in [V] and no-one complains. So
far I have not found any of them to be unplayable (though I still haven't tried
the elementals), and have found all capable of getting past stat gain.

My only dislike (as previously mentioned) is the hopelessly low natural speed of
Quylthulgs (which I think I proposed a possible fix to) as I have lost a
character on DLvl 99 to an Insta-death from an Undetected Shadow of Glaurung.

I would have said don't make Dark Elves more powerful though.

--
Take Care,
Graham

Pos(0.3.0a2) Alpha "Natar" XX L:1 DL:50' !A R--- !Sp w:Short Sword +0,+0
Pos(V/T//NPP) W H- D+ c-- f PV+ s- TT? d P++ M+
C-- S+ I- So B ac GHB- SQ+ RQ+ V+ F:Better monster AI (Acting like decent
players without automatically knowing where the player is - randomly roaming
the dungeon etc...)
 
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Ralf Arens wrote:
> Summing up: the start is really hard but not too hard (IMHO). Granted,
> one needs a bit of luck to survive.

Apparently, a start that requires you find an ego launcher to survive is
"not too hard" in this guy's opinion. That means his opinion on what is
"not too hard" is probably not representative enough to go on. :)

--
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Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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On 2005-03-30 13:55:23, Ralf Arens <ralfs_spam-sammlung@iei.tu-clausthal.de>
wrote:

> Alexander Ulyanov :
> > On 2005-03-27 01:03:25, Severoth wrote:
> >> Drow - Now this needs some discussion. Until drow hit 15 they are the most
> >> fragile class in the world. :( I lost about twenty, and I consider myself a
> >> reasonable angband player (speccing in warrior classes) As soon as I hit 15 was
> >> able to flick to warrior and now have one at 30.
> >
> > I expected them to be somewhat fragile. Are they that hard?
>
> It just depends on the gender, females die faster than I can blink.
> :)
>
> OK, seriously now. I lost four (female) DE in a row and couldn't help
> it much (wanting a change I chose male for the next). Each time I
> played even more cautiously but it didn't help much.
>
> The fifth survived till now (DE priest, clvl 22, dlvl 16, atm. a quest
> for 14 Hill giants, killed 7 so far).
>
> But I wouldn't have made it without the reward for the first quest, a
> Long Bow of Power (+7, +9). I killed most tougher critters with arrows
> till I reached level 15. The increase of HP and SP after choosing the
> class helped a lot. Now the bow is just my backup weapon, mostly I use
> the Darkness Ball, MM and melee.
>
> Summing up: the start is really hard but not too hard (IMHO). Granted,
> one needs a bit of luck to survive.
>
>
> Ralf
>
>
> PS: I haven't seriously played any other Angband variant than ToME or
> Steam for ~3 years, so I can't exactly remember how hard other
> classes resp. races are/were. (The start in ToME was *much*
> easier, Steam was harder but it's really a different game.)


Strange that you mention it, but that is exactly how my DE survived as well.
Long bow of power + 6 + 22...

Without that I would have been dust. Any unique I came across (or quest monster)
was turned into a pin cushion.

--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 
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Twisted One wrote:
> Polarhound wrote:
>
>> The Phase Spider is about to get it's first real test.
>>
>> http://ttfk.com/dump.html
>
>
> Yowza -- is that a GV?
>

I would assume so, although I don't have any ~oMM to see the whole thing.

Time to dive in :) I'll post the results in a couple of hours, since it
will take me that long to get through it probably.
 
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Polarhound wrote:
> Twisted One wrote:
>
>> Polarhound wrote:
>>
>>> The Phase Spider is about to get it's first real test.
>>>
>>> http://ttfk.com/dump.html
>>
>> Yowza -- is that a GV?
>
> I would assume so, although I don't have any ~oMM to see the whole thing.

~oMM? I guess that means the Star of Elendil, since the context seems to
mean that MM means Magic Mapping rather than Magic Missile, and that's
the only ~ that activates for Magic Mapping. :)

I usually have Enlightenment potions by the stage of the game where GVs
become at all likely. I use them when I get a high level feeling
(excellent or superb) and/or detect a vault.

Having a full map of the vault and ESP increases vastly the odds of
survival, for a number of reasons; it does look like you at least have
ESP. :)

> Time to dive in :) I'll post the results in a couple of hours, since it
> will take me that long to get through it probably.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Twisted One wrote:
> Polarhound wrote:
>
>> Twisted One wrote:
>>
>>> Polarhound wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Phase Spider is about to get it's first real test.
>>>>
>>>> http://ttfk.com/dump.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Yowza -- is that a GV?
>>
>>
>> I would assume so, although I don't have any ~oMM to see the whole thing.
>
>
> ~oMM? I guess that means the Star of Elendil, since the context seems to
> mean that MM means Magic Mapping rather than Magic Missile, and that's
> the only ~ that activates for Magic Mapping. :)
>
> I usually have Enlightenment potions by the stage of the game where GVs
> become at all likely. I use them when I get a high level feeling
> (excellent or superb) and/or detect a vault.
>
> Having a full map of the vault and ESP increases vastly the odds of
> survival, for a number of reasons; it does look like you at least have
> ESP. :)
>
>> Time to dive in :) I'll post the results in a couple of hours, since
>> it will take me that long to get through it probably.
>
>

I'm about 60% of the way through it now.. unfortunately, the charges in
my -oStM got drained.. I found out something interesthing though:

If you use a _oEarthquakes in a vault, you can create holes beyond the
permanent walls that you can blink in and out of. This is how I managed
to get into the bottom half of the vault. At this point I'm still
blinking around to get into the other parts.

Going into the vault, Tom the Stone Troll was in the center, and easily
dispatched from a distance. I burned one of my 3 mana pots when
fighting the Queen ant, using nexus on the surrounding mob while
damaging her as well. In the right side of the upper half was the
toughest fight so far: Kavlax. I teleported him away to deal with
later, as I don't have sound resistance and a single gravity breath will
kill me. Isulder was found, and it was a monster in that area that
drained my charges somehow.

I've burnt 20 rations, 2 ?oSH, and 5 Waybreads spawning monsters in the
rest of the map to get something I could dig with. Ended up with 2
_oEarthquakes, a -oWonder and oh yeah... about 10 stat pots <g>. The
-oWonder got me into the 1st section, then I used the earthquakes to try
to knock out the next section of granite. This was unsuccessful, but it
is here I noticed the ability to blink in and out of the vault into the
new open areas the earthquakes created.

It is times like this that I wish STM was an activation. Alex, maybe
you can use this as a King's reward? Either that, or maybe bump up the
spider's digging ability through lesser types of rock?

I'll post the final dump once I'm done with the blinkfest. I've already
gotten into the lower right area where Beorn was a breeze.

Oh yes.... Kavlax. I kept teleporting him around until I got a long
corridor with an area to hide behind when needed to heal. Hasted up to
+33 and started throwing nexus balls. It took about 20 to kill him,
burning my last mana pot in the process. Thankfully he only breathed
low along with shards and nexus.

BTW, the vault in question is Mirrored Quartet.
 
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Well, that's it. I'm out of food and heading back up. I was able to
get into the 2 main lower areas by blinking, but only after a couple
thousand tries. Trying to blink into a single possibly open spot is
like trying to flip a coin and call edge. It doesn't look like I missed
any uniques, but I have no clue what was in the corner vaults.

In all, the phase spider handled itself very well. Found a Mature GDSM
that I'm going to try to reforge with Thal to get sound resistance. I
know I could get it from Isulder, but would lose shards in the process.
 
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Ralf Arens wrote:
> Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid>:
>
>>Ralf Arens wrote:
>>
>>>Summing up: the start is really hard but not too hard (IMHO). Granted,
>>>one needs a bit of luck to survive.
>
>>Apparently, a start that requires you find an ego launcher to survive is
>>"not too hard" in this guy's opinion.
>
> This guy thinks he could have done it with an ordinary but enchanted
> bow. This guy can scum for Scrolls of Enchant Weapon *foo* to get
> that. They're also not that rare in the shop.

So far we've had 2 people ring in and say they've made it to statgain
with this type of char. Both credit an ego bow -- and both credit an ego
longbow of the *same type* in fact. Coincidence? Or can it only be done
with a Long Bow of Power?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Twisted One wrote:
> Ralf Arens wrote:
>
>> Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid>:
>>
>>> Ralf Arens wrote:
>>>
>>>> Summing up: the start is really hard but not too hard (IMHO). Granted,
>>>> one needs a bit of luck to survive.
>>
>>
>>> Apparently, a start that requires you find an ego launcher to survive
>>> is "not too hard" in this guy's opinion.
>>
>>
>> This guy thinks he could have done it with an ordinary but enchanted
>> bow. This guy can scum for Scrolls of Enchant Weapon *foo* to get
>> that. They're also not that rare in the shop.
>
>
> So far we've had 2 people ring in and say they've made it to statgain
> with this type of char. Both credit an ego bow -- and both credit an ego
> longbow of the *same type* in fact. Coincidence? Or can it only be done
> with a Long Bow of Power?
>

I have a Lvl50 DE, and used a similar bow in the first 15 levels as well.
 
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On 2005-03-31 21:12:16, Polarhound <Polarhound@comcast.net> wrote:

> Twisted One wrote:
> > Ralf Arens wrote:
> >
> >> Twisted One :
> >>
> >>> Ralf Arens wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Summing up: the start is really hard but not too hard (IMHO). Granted,
> >>>> one needs a bit of luck to survive.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Apparently, a start that requires you find an ego launcher to survive
> >>> is "not too hard" in this guy's opinion.
> >>
> >>
> >> This guy thinks he could have done it with an ordinary but enchanted
> >> bow. This guy can scum for Scrolls of Enchant Weapon *foo* to get
> >> that. They're also not that rare in the shop.
> >
> >
> > So far we've had 2 people ring in and say they've made it to statgain
> > with this type of char. Both credit an ego bow -- and both credit an ego
> > longbow of the *same type* in fact. Coincidence? Or can it only be done
> > with a Long Bow of Power?
> >
>
> I have a Lvl50 DE, and used a similar bow in the first 15 levels as well.
>

So if three people all effectively used ego launchers to get past the first 15
levels I think you can definitely say that DE need a tweak up for those first
levels.

--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 
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Severoth wrote:
> On 2005-03-31 21:12:16, Polarhound <Polarhound@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Twisted One wrote:
>>
>>>Ralf Arens wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Twisted One :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ralf Arens wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Summing up: the start is really hard but not too hard (IMHO). Granted,
>>>>>>one needs a bit of luck to survive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Apparently, a start that requires you find an ego launcher to survive
>>>>>is "not too hard" in this guy's opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This guy thinks he could have done it with an ordinary but enchanted
>>>>bow. This guy can scum for Scrolls of Enchant Weapon *foo* to get
>>>>that. They're also not that rare in the shop.
>>>
>>>
>>>So far we've had 2 people ring in and say they've made it to statgain
>>>with this type of char. Both credit an ego bow -- and both credit an ego
>>>longbow of the *same type* in fact. Coincidence? Or can it only be done
>>>with a Long Bow of Power?
>>>
>>
>>I have a Lvl50 DE, and used a similar bow in the first 15 levels as well.
>>
>
>
> So if three people all effectively used ego launchers to get past the first 15
> levels I think you can definitely say that DE need a tweak up for those first
> levels.
>

I probably could of done it with a regular bow as well, considering that
the damage difference isn't so big that a regular enchanted bow couldn't
do the job.
 
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On 2005-03-31, Polarhound wrote:
> It is times like this that I wish STM was an activation. Alex, maybe
> you can use this as a King's reward? Either that, or maybe bump up the
> spider's digging ability through lesser types of rock?

It doesn't really fit as King's reward activation. I have added
the Rod of Stone to Mud, though. Depth 20, rarity 3, recharges in
about 7 turns.

--
Alexander Ulyanov, maintainer of PosBand roguelike
E-mail: posband_AT_earthsea_DOT_org Web: http://posband.earthsea.org/
"Just an arbitrary set of rules like ... what's that thing you British play?"
- "Cricket? Self-loathing?" - "Parliamentary democracy." -- Mostly Harmless
 
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On 2005-04-01, Ralf Arens wrote:
> Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid>:
>> Ralf Arens wrote:
>>> Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid>:
>>>>Ralf Arens wrote:
>>>>> Summing up: the start is really hard but not too hard (IMHO). Granted,
>>>>> one needs a bit of luck to survive.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently, a start that requires you find an ego launcher to survive is
>>>> "not too hard" in this guy's opinion.
>>>
>>> This guy thinks he could have done it with an ordinary but enchanted
>>> bow. This guy can scum for Scrolls of Enchant Weapon *foo* to get
>>> that. They're also not that rare in the shop.
>>
>> So far we've had 2 people ring in and say they've made it to
>> statgain with this type of char.
>
> I didn't make it to stat gain. Died yesterday at 950ft when I was
> knocked out by Ice Ogres (never encountered them before).

They were introduced in NPP long ago (v0.1.x I think). At this depth
ogres are approximately as dangerous as trolls, although
potion-shattering cold attack is a big nuisance.

> But as I understood it the problem, it is not about reaching statgain
> but about reaching clvl 15, when DEs can specialize (Warrior, Mage, or
> Priest).

Yes. After all, I didn't plan to mark them "Hard".

OTOH I don't want to change them much either... I thought about
giving them a stack of poisoned darts on the birth. What do you
think?

>> Both credit an ego bow -- and both credit an ego
>> longbow of the *same type* in fact. Coincidence?
>
> Are the quest rewards biased towards race/class? (Too lazy to look
> into the source code.)

No, they aren't. Until recently they were biased by several bugs,
though.

>> Or can it only be done with a Long Bow of Power?
>
> Please compare the bows we're speaking of, mine was (+7,+9), which
> isn't much for a Bow of Power -- I was really disappointed when I got
> it. The other one in question was (+6,+22) which is IMHO a huge
> difference.

(+7,+9) long bow is still a great weapon for low levels -- usually
enough to guarantee survival.

--
Alexander Ulyanov, maintainer of PosBand roguelike
E-mail: posband_AT_earthsea_DOT_org Web: http://posband.earthsea.org/
"Just an arbitrary set of rules like ... what's that thing you British play?"
- "Cricket? Self-loathing?" - "Parliamentary democracy." -- Mostly Harmless