possible improvement of floc

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Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Hi all,

I had a short e-mail discussion with Alain Tesio about a possible
improvement (IMHO) of the floc website. We didn't agree and then Alain
suggested that I check the opinion of the rgd community. So here goes.

My suggestion to Alain was to reverse the order of the pages in the whole
history pdf's produced by his site.

At first I just said that the reverse order would be more logical. Alain
didn't agree and in fact thought the current order to be more logical. I
then realized that both orders are actually equally logical and that it is
rather a matter of usefulness.

My rationale is that with a reversed order of the pages the page that pops
up first displays the most current information after which it is possible to
scroll down to revisit pages that you have already seen earlier in the game.

My opinion is that for certain kinds of data the reverse order is more
useful. Examples would be an online newspaper, webmail, weblogs, webforums.
Obviously I also consider the floc pdf's to be in this category. With the
current order of the pages the page that pops up first is the start position
which, I believe, is for most of us quite redundant information.

Alain on the other hand said that he 'likes the game to go forward when he
goes forward in the file', which is of course another valid opinion. With a
reverserd order you would have to hit CTRL+END (on a windows platform) and
scroll up from there.

I think another advantadge of a reversed page order is for those with low
bandwidth access. As the game progresses the pdf can get rather bulky and
low bandwidth users might shun the pdf because it takes too much time before
the current season comes in. With a reversed order the previous game pages
will come in while you are inspecting the most current information. Kind of
a multitasking advantadge.

Alain said that technically it is easy to implement and, communitty oriented
as he is, would change it, despite his personal opinion, if rgd would like
the idea.

Looking forward to your respective two cents and the fortune when I put them
all together. ;-)

Oscar
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Would it be possible to have it both ways? Perhaps it could be set as
a preference in the user's profile.

Martin
(do not reply to my address above -- it's a spam trap)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

I like the way it is, but I see no real difference in what you're
suggesting. Simply go to the end of the file and scroll through
backwards. That should achieve exactly what you want.

When I view a game history, one map at a time fits in the view and
clicking next (or previous) page takes me to the next (or previous)
map. I can go to the end and go through backwards or to the beginning
and scroll through frontwards simply by clicking a different button.
What's the problem?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

I like it the way it is.

The reason is simple from my point of view:


I don't use the history maps during a game, but I download one of it
once a game is finished. You can fastly get a rough impression of what
has happened in a game if you go through it later on (starting with the
beginning).
If something was changed about the history-maps, I would like an
additional history map without the order arrows in it.

(But actually, I don't think that is necessary either)


Dieter
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

"Oscar Dijkhoff" <news@oehoeboeroe.nl> writes:

Oscar, very well presented arguments, I'm inclined to vote for the
way it is now. I am usually a "low bandwidth" reader, but if I
was looking at a game, I'd want to read the beginning first.
If I was ***IN*** a game, I probably wouldn't look at the whole
history unless I came in as a standby, and then again, I'd want
to start at the beginning.

So, you have a point, but I wouldn't change it.
Jim-Bob

>Hi all,

>I had a short e-mail discussion with Alain Tesio about a possible
>improvement (IMHO) of the floc website. We didn't agree and then Alain
>suggested that I check the opinion of the rgd community. So here goes.

>My suggestion to Alain was to reverse the order of the pages in the whole
>history pdf's produced by his site.

>At first I just said that the reverse order would be more logical. Alain
>didn't agree and in fact thought the current order to be more logical. I
>then realized that both orders are actually equally logical and that it is
>rather a matter of usefulness.

>My rationale is that with a reversed order of the pages the page that pops
>up first displays the most current information after which it is possible to
>scroll down to revisit pages that you have already seen earlier in the game.

>My opinion is that for certain kinds of data the reverse order is more
>useful. Examples would be an online newspaper, webmail, weblogs, webforums.
>Obviously I also consider the floc pdf's to be in this category. With the
>current order of the pages the page that pops up first is the start position
>which, I believe, is for most of us quite redundant information.

>Alain on the other hand said that he 'likes the game to go forward when he
>goes forward in the file', which is of course another valid opinion. With a
>reverserd order you would have to hit CTRL+END (on a windows platform) and
>scroll up from there.

>I think another advantadge of a reversed page order is for those with low
>bandwidth access. As the game progresses the pdf can get rather bulky and
>low bandwidth users might shun the pdf because it takes too much time before
>the current season comes in. With a reversed order the previous game pages
>will come in while you are inspecting the most current information. Kind of
>a multitasking advantadge.

>Alain said that technically it is easy to implement and, communitty oriented
>as he is, would change it, despite his personal opinion, if rgd would like
>the idea.

>Looking forward to your respective two cents and the fortune when I put them
>all together. ;-)

>Oscar
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Can you not just use the GIF maps of the current position? (genuine
question, are there problems with it that I haven't come across?)

I know that the pictures sometimes scroll larger than the screen size, but I
rarely refer to the PDF version until after the game, just saving it as a
record of the overall history.

Alastair
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

I also only use the PDF complete view at the end of the game, and so
therefore find it more useful to go from the beginning to the end (as
it is now): it wouldn't be useful for me to have it ordered the other
way.

BR,
Millis
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Dieter Drobny <dieter.drobny@t-online.de> wrote:

>I don't use the history maps during a game, but I download one of it
>once a game is finished. You can fastly get a rough impression of what
>has happened in a game if you go through it later on (starting with the
>beginning).

This is how I work too. Generally, I think I prefer to have the
..ps/Pdf going forwards, though I don't have a really strong opinion on
it.

--
Politas
To reply, replace nospam with diplomacy
http://www.livejournal.com/users/politas/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:58:27 +0200, Oscar Dijkhoff <news@oehoeboeroe.nl>
wrote:

> My suggestion to Alain was to reverse the order of the pages in the whole
> history pdf's produced by his site.

I like it the way it is.

I use the PDF reading from top to bottom for making my EOG-statement, so I
scroll down to the last turn.

If I want to see the most recent turn, I do not look at the PDF but at the
generated GIF images on floc.net instead.


--
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.diplomacy (More info?)

Thanks for the responses. I guess my preference is the odd one out here. Ah
well, I'm used to it. ;-)

Oscar
 
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