Power Connectors Question

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-130-677&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=2#scrollFullInfo

So I am planning to upgrade to this mobo because it has two PCIe 2.0 x16 slots, but something worries me. It has a slot for an 8 pin connector, and a 6 pin power connector. Do you need both?

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

if you see in the picture it's asking for an 8 pin and 6 pin, I thought you only needed like a 4 or 8 pin?

 

[vertexx]

Page 2.9 of the manual.

http://us.msi.com/service/download/manual-16833.html

Yes. It needs both. What PSU do you have?

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

Page 2.9 of the manual.

http://us.msi.com/service/download/manual-16833.html

Yes. It needs both. What PSU do you have?

Here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817374032

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

Page 2.9 of the manual.

http://us.msi.com/service/download/manual-16833.html

Yes. It needs both. What PSU do you have?

Here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817374032

 

[vertexx]

The PSU has only has 2x 6 pin connectors. It will depend on what GPU you are getting and whether or not you intend on running SLI at some point.

You could get one of these if needed: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400034

But again, that PSU only has 3x4 pin molex connectors - so you would need two for that adapter.

That may be enough, but you need to look at your GPU to see how many 6 or 8 pin connectors it requires. Also, if you are buying with the intent to do SLI, then you need to plan enough connectors for that.

If you were going to do SLI, then I would suggest a better PSU, in fact I'd probably recommend a better one anyway. Take a look at Corsair PSUs - they're a good balance between budget and quality. If you are planning SLI, then you want one with 4x6/8 pin PCI power connectors.

Hope this helps - I need to sign off - will check back in the AM.

 

[vertexx]

Sorry - that was the 8-pin adapter - this is a 6-pin: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200106

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

I think I am going to stick to this one as it only needs one 8 pin power connector -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131874

I already own one of these, but I am going to buy another for sli.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500284

And now that I am out of PCIe Connectors, I am going to use these to run it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400106

I don't overclock the GPUs on a side note. Will my PSU be enough?

Specs -
FX-8350 Overclocked to 4.2Ghz
16 GB Ballistix Ram - 1600mhz
One GTX 670 - Going to buy another one ^
Hyper 101 CPU Fan
WD 1TB Blue 7200rpm.
And obviously you know the PSU

 

[vertexx]

Jeeze - that'll be some string-up! I just might work - assuming you already have the PSU. The problem is that PSU splits its power up across 4 12v rails, so each one is only good for 25Amps. Check the specs in the manual here: http://www.inwin-style.com/upload/products_download/download_file/1333960834208_GreenMe_User_Manual_ICare_Ido.pdf

Your rig with dual GPUs will need close to 40 amps for full throttle. About 20 of that is for the CPU plus system power, but it's already running fine, you're probably ok. My guess is the CPU is on a dedicated rail. The cards will need about 10A each, so it's actually a good thing that extra 6-pin is on the board. I would put one each of the 6 pin PCIE power connectors direct from the PSU split to each of the cards. Then you'll need 4 of your sata power connectors feeding the other 2 6-pins on the GPUs. Finally, you need 2 of the molex connectors to feed the 6-pin on the motherboard.

It's a bit of patch-work, but it might just work.

Looking back at your post - you may actually want that extra connector on the motherboard. I wouldn't want any more of the rail feeding your CPU to have to go to power another card (75Watts of each GPU comes from the board itself). It'll spread the power supply out among all the rails of that PSU.

Of course, some of this is guess work - In Win doesn't document which connectors are on what rail. You could try their tech support to see if they have that. But you definitely want to spread the load.

 

[vertexx]

Correction - looks like each of your 670s will draw about 15A each (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-670-test-review,3217-15.html) ~170W Peak divided by 12 Volts.

That's still under the 25A for each rail, but it would sure be nice to know which connectors hook up to which rail so you could divide the load accurately.

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

Sorry, I am not the best at computers. I get what you are saying somewhat,but I do have a question. Would the ASUS still work, even though the MSI is better for the power rail thing? I just have a better feeling with the Asus one, I like the reviews alot better and I just like Asus overall. But like you said, I am going to get some Sata converters, and it takes two sata connectors for one PCIe connector. So I need 4, and I have 6 so I can have two left over And luckily for me the additional card I am going to add to my system only uses 6 pin connectors, luckily not 8. But what I guess I am asking is could I slide away with the Asus? Like in real world performance would it make much of a difference? The only reason I really don't want to get yet another converter for motherboard power connectors is that my case is filled already. I have two fan splitters for all my case fans, so that's a mess. And then some of my case fans need molex connectors to so that's a mess as well, so I am trying to stick with the last amount of cable works. None the less, thanks for your help thus far

 

[vertexx]

You're right on the Asus board - it's the better option.

I think you'll be ok, but you'll be taking some risk of damage to your components, because there is the chance you could be pushing the 25Amp limit on one of the Rails. Here is how it works. Your PSU supplies 3.3v, 5v, and 12v power. If you look on the label, the most important piece to look at is how it delivers the 12V power. In your case, it will show 4 12 volt power sources, rated at 25A each. Think of it as 4 smaller pipes feeding the water supply to your house, instead of one big one off the street. It may be fine, but if you run all your showers off one of those smaller pipes, and everyone takes a shower at the same time, you're going to overload that water supply, even though the overall system is rated for an adequate supply of water. This is what cheaper PSU brands do to cut costs.

To make it more complicated, the sum of the 4 rails can't exceed the 650Watt rating, so that's 54Amps total. So, you have a max of 25 Amps on each or a max of 54A total.

Here is how I am assuming your PSU breaks down the rails:

1. 24pin ATX Power - Maximum rating could be as high as 22Amps, so that probably has one dedicated 25A rail, maybe two. This will supply motherboard power, fans, plus up to 75W/6.25Amps to each of the PCIe slots.
2. 8 pin CPU power - Your CPU can draw as much as 15Amps with a mild overclock. So that's probably another rail.
3. PCIe - The two 6 pin PCIe connectors are rated at 75W/6.25A each, so that's another 12.5 Amps
4. Peripherals - So here is where it gets a little tricky. We don't know what the 4th rail is dedicated to. It could be the 2nd 4-pins for the CPU power, or a 2nd rail for the main ATX power, or it could be the Peripherals. So, peripherals could be on their own rail or they could be lumped in with the PCIe power.

Worst case, if they're lumped in with the PCIe, you'll have a single rail providing all the power for your 2 GPUs and Disk Drive. Each 670 draws a max of 180W/15Amps, divided among the 3 connectors (PCIe plus 2 6-pin), that's 5 Amps each. Multiply by 4 is 20 Amps required to the 4 6-pin connectors. If you add another 2-3 Amps for the disk drive, then you're about maxing out the 25A available on that rail.

Best case, they have the PCIe connectors each on their own rail, or the peripherals on their own rail, but we really don't know.

Bottom line is it will "probably" work. However, you have some risk. If something goes wrong, best case, you just blow one of the rails, and you get a new PSU. Worst case, you do some serious damage to your brand new equipment.

The other thing is with those Sata power adapters. If you use those, I would get one of those and one of the Molex adapters. The reason is that the power from the Sata adapters runs through much smaller pins than the Molex adapters. Each of those small pins is only rated for 1.5 Amps. So on paper you're ok, but it's not ideal. If you stick with your PSU, do one of each.

Bottom line though is, if you want to play it safe with your new components, I would recommend an upgraded PSU before you do the SLI with the 670s . Or, get on the phone with In Win tech support to get them to indicate how the rails are split get the best configuration for your setup.

What I would recommend as a safer option for PSU would be:

1. Reasonably safe option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 - this has a single 12V rail, and it's on a great promo right now. It only has 2 PCIe connectors, but it has plenty of the Molex connectors, which are better for adapting to the 6-pin PCIe connector.

2. Really safe option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182133 . This Rosewill is also on a great Promo. It has a single 12V rails and 4 PCIe connectors. This is really the type of PSU best designed for what you want to do with your rig. If you can afford to upgrade, you really want to get something like this before you do the SLI with those 670s.

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

You're right on the Asus board - it's the better option.

I think you'll be ok, but you'll be taking some risk of damage to your components, because there is the chance you could be pushing the 25Amp limit on one of the Rails. Here is how it works. Your PSU supplies 3.3v, 5v, and 12v power. If you look on the label, the most important piece to look at is how it delivers the 12V power. In your case, it will show 4 12 volt power sources, rated at 25A each. Think of it as 4 smaller pipes feeding the water supply to your house, instead of one big one off the street. It may be fine, but if you run all your showers off one of those smaller pipes, and everyone takes a shower at the same time, you're going to overload that water supply, even though the overall system is rated for an adequate supply of water. This is what cheaper PSU brands do to cut costs.

To make it more complicated, the sum of the 4 rails can't exceed the 650Watt rating, so that's 54Amps total. So, you have a max of 25 Amps on each or a max of 54A total.

Here is how I am assuming your PSU breaks down the rails:

1. 24pin ATX Power - Maximum rating could be as high as 22Amps, so that probably has one dedicated 25A rail, maybe two. This will supply motherboard power, fans, plus up to 75W/6.25Amps to each of the PCIe slots.
2. 8 pin CPU power - Your CPU can draw as much as 15Amps with a mild overclock. So that's probably another rail.
3. PCIe - The two 6 pin PCIe connectors are rated at 75W/6.25A each, so that's another 12.5 Amps
4. Peripherals - So here is where it gets a little tricky. We don't know what the 4th rail is dedicated to. It could be the 2nd 4-pins for the CPU power, or a 2nd rail for the main ATX power, or it could be the Peripherals. So, peripherals could be on their own rail or they could be lumped in with the PCIe power.

Worst case, if they're lumped in with the PCIe, you'll have a single rail providing all the power for your 2 GPUs and Disk Drive. Each 670 draws a max of 180W/15Amps, divided among the 3 connectors (PCIe plus 2 6-pin), that's 5 Amps each. Multiply by 4 is 20 Amps required to the 4 6-pin connectors. If you add another 2-3 Amps for the disk drive, then you're about maxing out the 25A available on that rail.

Best case, they have the PCIe connectors each on their own rail, or the peripherals on their own rail, but we really don't know.

Bottom line is it will "probably" work. However, you have some risk. If something goes wrong, best case, you just blow one of the rails, and you get a new PSU. Worst case, you do some serious damage to your brand new equipment.

The other thing is with those Sata power adapters. If you use those, I would get one of those and one of the Molex adapters. The reason is that the power from the Sata adapters runs through much smaller pins than the Molex adapters. Each of those small pins is only rated for 1.5 Amps. So on paper you're ok, but it's not ideal. If you stick with your PSU, do one of each.

Bottom line though is, if you want to play it safe with your new components, I would recommend an upgraded PSU before you do the SLI with the 670s . Or, get on the phone with In Win tech support to get them to indicate how the rails are split get the best configuration for your setup.

What I would recommend as a safer option for PSU would be:

1. Reasonably safe option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 - this has a single 12V rail, and it's on a great promo right now. It only has 2 PCIe connectors, but it has plenty of the Molex connectors, which are better for adapting to the 6-pin PCIe connector.

2. Really safe option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182133 . This Rosewill is also on a great Promo. It has a single 12V rails and 4 PCIe connectors. This is really the type of PSU best designed for what you want to do with your rig. If you can afford to upgrade, you really want to get something like this before you do the SLI with those 670s.

Okay, thanks! If I decide to email in win, what should I ask them? I get what you are saying now, but I have no idea what to ask for. Also, would you Like me to send you the email? Thanks for all the assistance!

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

You're right on the Asus board - it's the better option.

I think you'll be ok, but you'll be taking some risk of damage to your components, because there is the chance you could be pushing the 25Amp limit on one of the Rails. Here is how it works. Your PSU supplies 3.3v, 5v, and 12v power. If you look on the label, the most important piece to look at is how it delivers the 12V power. In your case, it will show 4 12 volt power sources, rated at 25A each. Think of it as 4 smaller pipes feeding the water supply to your house, instead of one big one off the street. It may be fine, but if you run all your showers off one of those smaller pipes, and everyone takes a shower at the same time, you're going to overload that water supply, even though the overall system is rated for an adequate supply of water. This is what cheaper PSU brands do to cut costs.

To make it more complicated, the sum of the 4 rails can't exceed the 650Watt rating, so that's 54Amps total. So, you have a max of 25 Amps on each or a max of 54A total.

Here is how I am assuming your PSU breaks down the rails:

1. 24pin ATX Power - Maximum rating could be as high as 22Amps, so that probably has one dedicated 25A rail, maybe two. This will supply motherboard power, fans, plus up to 75W/6.25Amps to each of the PCIe slots.
2. 8 pin CPU power - Your CPU can draw as much as 15Amps with a mild overclock. So that's probably another rail.
3. PCIe - The two 6 pin PCIe connectors are rated at 75W/6.25A each, so that's another 12.5 Amps
4. Peripherals - So here is where it gets a little tricky. We don't know what the 4th rail is dedicated to. It could be the 2nd 4-pins for the CPU power, or a 2nd rail for the main ATX power, or it could be the Peripherals. So, peripherals could be on their own rail or they could be lumped in with the PCIe power.

Worst case, if they're lumped in with the PCIe, you'll have a single rail providing all the power for your 2 GPUs and Disk Drive. Each 670 draws a max of 180W/15Amps, divided among the 3 connectors (PCIe plus 2 6-pin), that's 5 Amps each. Multiply by 4 is 20 Amps required to the 4 6-pin connectors. If you add another 2-3 Amps for the disk drive, then you're about maxing out the 25A available on that rail.

Best case, they have the PCIe connectors each on their own rail, or the peripherals on their own rail, but we really don't know.

Bottom line is it will "probably" work. However, you have some risk. If something goes wrong, best case, you just blow one of the rails, and you get a new PSU. Worst case, you do some serious damage to your brand new equipment.

The other thing is with those Sata power adapters. If you use those, I would get one of those and one of the Molex adapters. The reason is that the power from the Sata adapters runs through much smaller pins than the Molex adapters. Each of those small pins is only rated for 1.5 Amps. So on paper you're ok, but it's not ideal. If you stick with your PSU, do one of each.

Bottom line though is, if you want to play it safe with your new components, I would recommend an upgraded PSU before you do the SLI with the 670s . Or, get on the phone with In Win tech support to get them to indicate how the rails are split get the best configuration for your setup.

What I would recommend as a safer option for PSU would be:

1. Reasonably safe option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 - this has a single 12V rail, and it's on a great promo right now. It only has 2 PCIe connectors, but it has plenty of the Molex connectors, which are better for adapting to the 6-pin PCIe connector.

2. Really safe option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182133 . This Rosewill is also on a great Promo. It has a single 12V rails and 4 PCIe connectors. This is really the type of PSU best designed for what you want to do with your rig. If you can afford to upgrade, you really want to get something like this before you do the SLI with those 670s.

Okay, thanks! If I decide to email in win, what should I ask them? I get what you are saying now, but I have no idea what to ask for. Also, would you Like me to send you the email I get back? Thanks for all the assistance!

 

[vertexx]

I would give them your planned setup and ask them if you should be ok. Also, ask them if they can indicate what connectors are allocated to each 12V Rail. If they respond, just post their response here.

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

Okay, I am waiting for a response. This is what I sent them - (Btw, I think I will stick with
Sata Converters because I am out of Molex cables)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, I have a question about the electrical railing and if my current setup will work. I am going to buy this motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131874 And I am going to run two GTX 670s in SLI. I am going to buy two SATA to 6 Pin PCIe convertors, so I will have enough PCIe Cables to run the additional 670. But will I surpass the limitation for each rail?
So I will put one of the PCIe cable from the power supply on the top GPU, and the other cable on the GTX 670 below it. Then I will use one SATA convertor PCIe cable on the top 670, and the other on the bottom 670. Will this work without drawing to much power from each rail? Thank you!

Both Video Cards need two 6 pin PCIe cables, thus why I am buying the converters. the exact PSU I use is here - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817374032&Tpk=in%20win%20650w - Thank you for your help!

- Greg Gorman

P.S. Great job on this power supply! I love this thing.

 

[vertexx]

Had already seen that. It's always one of the pictures for PSUs on Newegg. Also it was in the user manual I linked above. That is what tells you there are 4 12V rails, but it doesn't tell you which connectors are tied to which rail. I think it's worth one more email to tech support to ask for this info.

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

Had already seen that. It's always one of the pictures for PSUs on Newegg. Also it was in the user manual I linked above. That is what tells you there are 4 12V rails, but it doesn't tell you which connectors are tied to which rail. I think it's worth one more email to tech support to ask for this info.

ah okay, that's fine. Do you happen to know what connectors are allocated to each 12V Rail? Thanks!

- Greg

I use your Green Me 650w http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817374032&Tpk=in%20win%20650w

-------------------------------------------------
Customer Serivce
12:30 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
Hi Greg,
For power supply Green Me 650W, the yellow cable are 12V. Thanks.

Best Regards,
IN-Win Customer Service
Tel: 909-348-0588

Here is what I got back, did I ask the question wrong?

 

[vertexx]

Well, that's not very helpful....

You're just going to either have to go with it or upgrade the PSU. Like I said, you'll "probably" be ok. But my recommendation would be to upgrade the PSU. There were some great specials on the ones I linked above. Even if you can't get one right now, if you want a long-running, stable rig, you really should upgrade. They go on promo quite often, so keep your eye out. I would recommend sticking to well reviewed PSUs from one of these brands: Antec, Seasonic, Corsair, Rosewill.

Another option you could try is to re-post specifically for your PSU, to see if anyone out there has run that SLI with dual graphics (specify your 670's because they require 2 power connectors each). It may be good to get some input from additional people.

Hope this has been helpful.

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

Well, that's not very helpful....

You're just going to either have to go with it or upgrade the PSU. Like I said, you'll "probably" be ok. But my recommendation would be to upgrade the PSU. There were some great specials on the ones I linked above. Even if you can't get one right now, if you want a long-running, stable rig, you really should upgrade. They go on promo quite often, so keep your eye out. I would recommend sticking to well reviewed PSUs from one of these brands: Antec, Seasonic, Corsair, Rosewill.

Another option you could try is to re-post specifically for your PSU, to see if anyone out there has run that SLI with dual graphics (specify your 670's because they require 2 power connectors each). It may be good to get some input from additional people.

Hope this has been helpful.

It has, thanks for all the assistance I can't get a new PSU atm, I am terribly broke haha. The 670 will be a gift so yea. None the less, if it is over the rail thing, will it last a bit before getting damaged, or will it just immediately break down? Second off, which setup do you think would be best?
One SATA Converter & 1 PCIe Splitter (Turns one PCIe Into two)
Two SATA Converters
Two PCIe Splitter

And depending on which one you think is best, which PCIe should go in which one? For example "Both PCIe cables in one, then one sata and one pcie splitter on the other"

Thanks!

 

[vertexx]

It has, thanks for all the assistance I can't get a new PSU atm, I am terribly broke haha. The 670 will be a gift so yea. None the less, if it is over the rail thing, will it last a bit before getting damaged, or will it just immediately break down? Second off, which setup do you think would be best?
One SATA Converter & 1 PCIe Splitter (Turns one PCIe Into two)
Two SATA Converters
Two PCIe Splitter

And depending on which one you think is best, which PCIe should go in which one? For example "Both PCIe cables in one, then one sata and one pcie splitter on the other"

Thanks!

Good news. I found a review of your PSU with the information I was looking for here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/InWin/GreenMe_650/2.html

The last table on the page shows how each rail is divided up. Notice that each PCIe connector has it's own dedicated rail, which means you'll be fine. It also means that you definitely want to use the PCIe 6-pin splitter approach and NOT use the Sata power adapter approach. Using a Sata adapter would just pull current off the main ATX rail (see "Peripherals" under the "12V1" rail on the chart), which you don't want. I would run each PCIe rail to a single card (i.e. both "split" 6 pins running to one card). This way, if a single card fails, you only possibly impact one rail.

The only concern now is possibly overloading the wires to the PCIe connectors. The article indicates they are 18AWG, which the minimum spec. After you get everything hooked up, play a while with the case opened up and feel the wires going into the splitter. If they're getting over-loaded you be able to feel the heat (warm is fine - very hot or smoking is not - ).

I think based on this diagram, you're all set. Let me know if you have any questions, and do me a favor by picking a "best answer".

Good luck with your new setup!!

 

[Greg Gorman-1304225]

Thankyou so much for your help! It means alot Btw, how would I split up? I assume one normal PCIe per card, and one PCIe Splliter per card?
Thanks