"Power Factor Correction"?

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I bought a replacement power supply unit from Dell for my Dimension 4500. It
was real easy. The Dell part number on my original PSU was 0N380, and the
Dell rep said she couldn't get that particular part so she substituted a
unit with Dell part number 2N333.

I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description is
the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power Factor
Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is the
difference?

Ted Zieglar
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description is
> the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power Factor
> Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is the
> difference?

In a non-related to power supplies type response, power factor correction
is sometimes applied to a "dirty" inductive load, where the electrical
effect of the load causes the phase angle to change which means the power
used is less effective, so relatively costs more to run (its been years
since I did any of this, so I might be wrong in my description)

Power factor correction is likely to be pretty minimal I would have
thought for a small power supply, but is not a bad thing in itself.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Thanks, Colin.

Modem Ani

"Colin Wilson" <void@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cb64dd27093b40198b008@news.individual.net...
> > I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description
is
> > the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power
Factor
> > Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is
the
> > difference?
>
> In a non-related to power supplies type response, power factor correction
> is sometimes applied to a "dirty" inductive load, where the electrical
> effect of the load causes the phase angle to change which means the power
> used is less effective, so relatively costs more to run (its been years
> since I did any of this, so I might be wrong in my description)
>
> Power factor correction is likely to be pretty minimal I would have
> thought for a small power supply, but is not a bad thing in itself.
>
> --
> Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
> --- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ted Zieglar wrote:
> Thanks, Colin.

Ditto - seemed like some real info from someone who actually knows what
he's talking about (nice change of pace on this NG)!
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:01:58 -0500, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
wrote:

>I bought a replacement power supply unit from Dell for my Dimension 4500. It
>was real easy. The Dell part number on my original PSU was 0N380, and the
>Dell rep said she couldn't get that particular part so she substituted a
>unit with Dell part number 2N333.
>
>I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description is
>the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power Factor
>Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is the
>difference?
>
>Ted Zieglar
>
>


Ted, just curious, what did it cost from Dell? I've also got a 4500
and may end up doing the same thing down the road.
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

The power supply itself was $30 plus shipping. Dell automatically adds
next-day delivery ($16) since they presume that if you're ordering a power
supply you need it asap, but you can ask for a slower, less expensive method
if you like.

As long as I was going to replace my power supply, I thought I would go with
a fancier unit from a third party. Dell uses a proprietary power supply, but
there are ways to adapt a standard unit to fit the 4500. If you decide to go
this route, search the internet for the model number shown on the label
attached to your Dell PSU. (Don't confuse the model number with Dell's part
number, or the bar code number.) That provided links to several suppliers
with compatible units and adapters to make them work with your motherboard.

The thing is, these third party units cost twice what Dell was asking. And
Dell's PSU is guaranteed by Dell to work in my computer. So in the end I
went with Dell. If the replacement is like the original, then by the time
the replacement starts getting noisy it will be time to buy a new computer
anyway.

Ted Zieglar


<Rob> wrote in message news:93eq411kg275druikmk8hfuls141f32hvc@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:01:58 -0500, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I bought a replacement power supply unit from Dell for my Dimension 4500.
It
> >was real easy. The Dell part number on my original PSU was 0N380, and the
> >Dell rep said she couldn't get that particular part so she substituted a
> >unit with Dell part number 2N333.
> >
> >I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description is
> >the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power
Factor
> >Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is the
> >difference?
> >
> >Ted Zieglar
> >
> >
>
>
> Ted, just curious, what did it cost from Dell? I've also got a 4500
> and may end up doing the same thing down the road.
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <MPG.1cb64dd27093b40198b008@news.individual.net>, void@btinternet.com wrote:
>> I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description is
>> the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power Factor
>> Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is the
>> difference?
>
>In a non-related to power supplies type response, power factor correction
>is sometimes applied to a "dirty" inductive load, where the electrical
>effect of the load causes the phase angle to change which means the power
>used is less effective, so relatively costs more to run (its been years
>since I did any of this, so I might be wrong in my description)
>
>Power factor correction is likely to be pretty minimal I would have
>thought for a small power supply, but is not a bad thing in itself.

Yeah. Last time I ran into this term was when trying to buy a welder!
Here in Oz PFC was/is mandatory for high inductance loads. Seems it
was/is possible to run your meter backwards here if you have such a
load commensurate with normal load in the absence of PFC. ;-)

Cheers, Phred.

--
ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

From the replies I have received, and subsequent searching on the web, it
occurs to me that power factor correction is a concept over my head, but
that it's a good thing to have on a power supply (or at least, not a bad
thing.) I can deal with that.

Ted Zieglar

"Phred" <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b53l6F6e2vstU4@individual.net...
> In article <MPG.1cb64dd27093b40198b008@news.individual.net>,
void@btinternet.com wrote:
> >> I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description
is
> >> the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power
Factor
> >> Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is
the
> >> difference?
> >
> >In a non-related to power supplies type response, power factor correction
> >is sometimes applied to a "dirty" inductive load, where the electrical
> >effect of the load causes the phase angle to change which means the power
> >used is less effective, so relatively costs more to run (its been years
> >since I did any of this, so I might be wrong in my description)
> >
> >Power factor correction is likely to be pretty minimal I would have
> >thought for a small power supply, but is not a bad thing in itself.
>
> Yeah. Last time I ran into this term was when trying to buy a welder!
> Here in Oz PFC was/is mandatory for high inductance loads. Seems it
> was/is possible to run your meter backwards here if you have such a
> load commensurate with normal load in the absence of PFC. ;-)
>
> Cheers, Phred.
>
> --
> ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:12:02 +0100, in
<MPG.1cb64dd27093b40198b008@news.individual.net>, Colin Wilson
<void@btinternet.com> wrote:

>> I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description is
>> the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power Factor
>> Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is the
>> difference?
>
>In a non-related to power supplies type response, power factor correction
>is sometimes applied to a "dirty" inductive load, where the electrical
>effect of the load causes the phase angle to change which means the power
>used is less effective, so relatively costs more to run (its been years
>since I did any of this, so I might be wrong in my description)
>
>Power factor correction is likely to be pretty minimal I would have
>thought for a small power supply, but is not a bad thing in itself.

Agreed in general, but a bit of a quibble on the mention of
increased cost to run. The added out of phase power drawn by an
uncorrected device doesn't register on the electric meter and
power companies don't apply power factor corrections to
residential bills. So no difference in cost of operation.

Power companies measure power factor at the meter for industrial
(and maybe commercial) users and use the value found to apply a
correction factor to the bill to account for added power drawn,
but not registered on the meter. For many in this situation the
use of devices with individual correction built in and also some
banks of capacitors installed at suitable distribution points
pays for itself in reduced utility costs thru an improved power
factor... or at least reduces the need for larger in-plant
transformers and feeder systems to carry the useless added
current resulting from a poor power factor.
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> Agreed in general, but a bit of a quibble on the mention of
> increased cost to run.

IIRC the change of phase angle means that the power consumed is not used
effectively, so as an example, although a "dirty load" may draw 10 amps
in operation, it may only be effectively "using" 8 amps - PFC reduces the
phase angle so the "lost" 2 amps is reduced.

Reducing the phase angle by use of PFC means you reduce the "lost"
current, so you're not paying for the power you're unable to use by
virtue of the "dirty" load.

Picture two sine waves superimposed - the closer the peaks to each other
the better the efficiency of the load. A purely resistive load doesn't
affect the "phase angle" (the "offset" between the two sine waves).

A "dirty" (inductive) load forces the two sine waves to part company, and
the bigger the offset between the two, the less efficient the use of
power.

Back to pure speculation here as its been close to 20 years since I did
any of this :-} but I think the point at which the sine waves cross
signifies the "actual" use you get out of the power, while the peak
signifies what you're actually having to pay for it.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Colin Wilson" <void@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cb7ac5ef268abe798b015@news.individual.net...
> > Agreed in general, but a bit of a quibble on the mention of
> > increased cost to run.
>
> IIRC the change of phase angle means that the power consumed is not used
> effectively, so as an example, although a "dirty load" may draw 10 amps
> in operation, it may only be effectively "using" 8 amps - PFC reduces the
> phase angle so the "lost" 2 amps is reduced.
>
> Reducing the phase angle by use of PFC means you reduce the "lost"
> current, so you're not paying for the power you're unable to use by
> virtue of the "dirty" load.
>
> Picture two sine waves superimposed - the closer the peaks to each other
> the better the efficiency of the load. A purely resistive load doesn't
> affect the "phase angle" (the "offset" between the two sine waves).
>
> A "dirty" (inductive) load forces the two sine waves to part company, and
> the bigger the offset between the two, the less efficient the use of
> power.
>
> Back to pure speculation here as its been close to 20 years since I did
> any of this :-} but I think the point at which the sine waves cross
> signifies the "actual" use you get out of the power, while the peak
> signifies what you're actually having to pay for it.
>
> --
> Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
> --- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

Notwithstanding all the above (generally correct), the reason PFC was
introduced is regulatory requirements, centered mostly in Europe. It
really ended up burdening many electronic eqpt purchasers (like us) with
additional cost, just to sate the fact that state run power suppliers prefer
to have their load PF as close to 1 as possible, thereby reducing the need
for installing higher current capacity transmission eqpt.

Not really germane, but that's the "bottom line".
 
Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:34:26 -0500, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
wrote:

>The power supply itself was $30 plus shipping. Dell automatically adds
>next-day delivery ($16) since they presume that if you're ordering a power
>supply you need it asap, but you can ask for a slower, less expensive method
>if you like.
>
>As long as I was going to replace my power supply, I thought I would go with
>a fancier unit from a third party. Dell uses a proprietary power supply, but
>there are ways to adapt a standard unit to fit the 4500. If you decide to go
>this route, search the internet for the model number shown on the label
>attached to your Dell PSU. (Don't confuse the model number with Dell's part
>number, or the bar code number.) That provided links to several suppliers
>with compatible units and adapters to make them work with your motherboard.
>
>The thing is, these third party units cost twice what Dell was asking. And
>Dell's PSU is guaranteed by Dell to work in my computer. So in the end I
>went with Dell. If the replacement is like the original, then by the time
>the replacement starts getting noisy it will be time to buy a new computer
>anyway.
>
>Ted Zieglar
>
>
><Rob> wrote in message news:93eq411kg275druikmk8hfuls141f32hvc@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:01:58 -0500, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I bought a replacement power supply unit from Dell for my Dimension 4500.
>It
>> >was real easy. The Dell part number on my original PSU was 0N380, and the
>> >Dell rep said she couldn't get that particular part so she substituted a
>> >unit with Dell part number 2N333.
>> >
>> >I looked up both part numbers on Dell's web site and their description is
>> >the same, except for one difference: My original PSU was "non-Power
>Factor
>> >Correction" and the replacement is "Power Factor Correction". What is the
>> >difference?
>> >
>> >Ted Zieglar
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Ted, just curious, what did it cost from Dell? I've also got a 4500
>> and may end up doing the same thing down the road.
>


Thanks Ted, appreciate the info. Not sure which way I'll go because
it hasn't happened yet but I think right now I'd go with the power
supply but maybe not by next year??? In any case, I'm saving your
post for future reference "just in case" <grin>.

thank you again.
 
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