[SOLVED] Power Outage or hardware?

litwicki23

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My pc:
Seasonic PRIME TX-850 80Plus Titanium 850W
10850K stock 4800mhz stock Kraken X73 good temps
2x16 GB DDR4 GSKILL 3000mhz XMP
Seasonic Tx-850 Ultra Titanium
Gigabyte Rtx 3090 Gaming ( 2x8 pin , 2 separate cables )
Aorus Z490 Pro Gaming
1 TB SSD





Week ago i launched Metro Exodus and after cinematic advertisement part pc just shutdown. I pressed only power button, rebooted again and its fine again. Happened once and i cant reproduce.

Happened after launching game on intro advertisements part.

Is this possible that i had voltage power fluctuation in house and thats why it shutdown?
But during launching Metro Exodus,coincedence?
Also laptop and router was not affected, router and laptop doesnt turn off. Only pc.

Power after AC loss have ON in UEFI. So if it was just losing power for a split second, it should be rebooting?
So why he stay off.?
 

Karadjgne

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Backwards doesn't apply. Power on AFTER power LOSS. The router would also reboot (unless it has a battery backup, some do) unless it's voltage required is much broader, the laptop has a battery so power loss will not affect it. For instance, if you have a 115v/120v house electric, and the psu minimum is 112v, and the router minimum is 108v and the brownout went to 110v, the psu will shut down, the router would not.

During a 'Brown Out' where voltages fluctuate on the low side, that's not considered a power loss. A power loss is an instant of Zero power that lasts longer than the 20ms or so hold-up time of the psu and instead of the psu turning itself off, it's made off.

With a brown out there's a lowering of voltage, and if that exceeds the minimum requirement of the psu, the psu will shut itself down to prevent damaging voltages inside itself.

That's the difference, a blackout shuts the psu off, a brown out causes the psu to shut itself off. So it will not turn back on, because it cannot tell whether the brownout condition is still in affect or not.

A common feature of brownouts is the sudden spike of voltage when they end, so while you might think it an inconvenience, it's very possible the psu just saved your pc from getting voltage spiked, which is exactly what would happen with a cheap junk psu with lousy or absent protective circuits. This is a good thing.

If brownouts are a consideration with your neighborhood power grid, cheap insurance is a decent UPS that has AVR (auto voltage regulation) which will add a little battery to the output during lowered power situations, so the pc never sees low power or spikes again.
 

Ralston18

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Karadjgne

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Backwards doesn't apply. Power on AFTER power LOSS. The router would also reboot (unless it has a battery backup, some do) unless it's voltage required is much broader, the laptop has a battery so power loss will not affect it. For instance, if you have a 115v/120v house electric, and the psu minimum is 112v, and the router minimum is 108v and the brownout went to 110v, the psu will shut down, the router would not.

During a 'Brown Out' where voltages fluctuate on the low side, that's not considered a power loss. A power loss is an instant of Zero power that lasts longer than the 20ms or so hold-up time of the psu and instead of the psu turning itself off, it's made off.

With a brown out there's a lowering of voltage, and if that exceeds the minimum requirement of the psu, the psu will shut itself down to prevent damaging voltages inside itself.

That's the difference, a blackout shuts the psu off, a brown out causes the psu to shut itself off. So it will not turn back on, because it cannot tell whether the brownout condition is still in affect or not.

A common feature of brownouts is the sudden spike of voltage when they end, so while you might think it an inconvenience, it's very possible the psu just saved your pc from getting voltage spiked, which is exactly what would happen with a cheap junk psu with lousy or absent protective circuits. This is a good thing.

If brownouts are a consideration with your neighborhood power grid, cheap insurance is a decent UPS that has AVR (auto voltage regulation) which will add a little battery to the output during lowered power situations, so the pc never sees low power or spikes again.
 

d0x360

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It's this exact reason why I bought one of those battery backups for a PC and monitor. It only gives me a few min but that few min is enough time to shutdown if needed and it protects it from things like this as well...

Worth the investment imo. Also some companies, and I stress some..well the person running IT might give you an old one for free.

I got one from my wife's work. Nothing wrong with it but it had been sitting on a shelf of components for a couple years. I asked her to see if she could snag it and they said yes so that one is hooked up to my consoles.

Always worth asking if you know someone
 

litwicki23

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Backwards doesn't apply. Power on AFTER power LOSS. The router would also reboot (unless it has a battery backup, some do) unless it's voltage required is much broader, the laptop has a battery so power loss will not affect it. For instance, if you have a 115v/120v house electric, and the psu minimum is 112v, and the router minimum is 108v and the brownout went to 110v, the psu will shut down, the router would not.

During a 'Brown Out' where voltages fluctuate on the low side, that's not considered a power loss. A power loss is an instant of Zero power that lasts longer than the 20ms or so hold-up time of the psu and instead of the psu turning itself off, it's made off.

With a brown out there's a lowering of voltage, and if that exceeds the minimum requirement of the psu, the psu will shut itself down to prevent damaging voltages inside itself.

That's the difference, a blackout shuts the psu off, a brown out causes the psu to shut itself off. So it will not turn back on, because it cannot tell whether the brownout condition is still in affect or not.

A common feature of brownouts is the sudden spike of voltage when they end, so while you might think it an inconvenience, it's very possible the psu just saved your pc from getting voltage spiked, which is exactly what would happen with a cheap junk psu with lousy or absent protective circuits. This is a good thing.

If brownouts are a consideration with your neighborhood power grid, cheap insurance is a decent UPS that has AVR (auto voltage regulation) which will add a little battery to the output during lowered power situations, so the pc never sees low power or spikes again.
So is this possible that i had voltage fluctuation in house? Laptop doesnt change to battery mode ( i checked in windows event logs , laptop was on power ). Also router doesnt turn off. Only pc shutdown. So only pc was affected.

Power after AC loss have ON in UEFI. So if it was just losing power for a split second, it should be rebooting?
So why he stay off.?
 

Karadjgne

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Read what you quoted. All of it.

A lowering of household voltage is Not power loss, there's still power for most items. So no reboot. If house power goes too low for the psu, the psu will shut itself down and stay off. If voltages drop to Zero volts, that Is a power loss, and everything in the house that does not have a battery backup (like your microwave clock) will reset and your pc Will reboot.

2 totally different things. You are confusing them with the word loss. Loss means No power at all. Lights go out, TV goes off, clocks go back to 12:00 (when power returns).

Loss does Not mean lower. With Lower, lights just dim or flicker, TV might turn off if power is Too low, etc.

Is like a car battery. Starter Needs 12v to start the car. If the battery has 10v, the inside dome light will be dim, you'll still get a buzzer if the door is open, the dash lights still come on, but try and start the car and you get nothing. Voltage too low for starter, but ok for leds. Power Loss would be same as unplugging the battery, you get nothing at all.
 
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litwicki23

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Thank you Karadjgne.
I ask because found some topics in reddit that some guys had shutdowns in Metro Exodus in loading stage.
They said.
1
."I'm having the exact same problem with Seasonic 750W Titanium + 3090 FE. It's tripping off with a tiny 100Mhz OC (and even with no OC at times), simply loading a Metro Exodus save file. I'm using the 10900K-equivalent Xeon part, which is called W-1290P (identical TDP). "

2.
"On Metro, it ONLY happens when I load into the game (it makes you hold E for a second when the loading finishes). "


The same situations. I had that shutdown during loading part. Maybe related to psu too? But it happened once and nothing more. So just coincedence?
 

Karadjgne

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Seperate issue. Seasonic is an OEM that makes some of the best psus, some would argue The best, and part of that is the protective circuitry. In cheap junk, that protection is either non existant or set so stupidly high that you'd burn the pc down and still not trip thermal protections. Like many better psus, those Seasonic protections are set a Lot tighter, for instance Over Current Protection is set @ 15% above the rated power. Unfortunately, 3000 series cards, especially the 3080+ uber gaming cards, have this really bad habit of instant spike draws well above normal. This has been corrected by Seasonic, and adjusted for, but some ppl still have uncorrected psus and never had an issue. It's not a recall because it's not a defect on Seasonic part, it's a defect on nvidia part.

If a psu shuts down for any perceived or actual protective circuitry event, it will Not reboot to Windows regardless of bios settings.
 
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litwicki23

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Seperate issue. Seasonic is an OEM that makes some of the best psus, some would argue The best, and part of that is the protective circuitry. In cheap junk, that protection is either non existant or set so stupidly high that you'd burn the pc down and still not trip thermal protections. Like many better psus, those Seasonic protections are set a Lot tighter, for instance Over Current Protection is set @ 15% above the rated power. Unfortunately, 3000 series cards, especially the 3080+ uber gaming cards, have this really bad habit of instant spike draws well above normal. This has been corrected by Seasonic, and adjusted for, but some ppl still have uncorrected psus and never had an issue. It's not a recall because it's not a defect on Seasonic part, it's a defect on nvidia part.

If a psu shuts down for any perceived or actual protective circuitry event, it will Not reboot to Windows regardless of bios settings.
Thanks
Karadjgne
.
So if that happened once and not again , propably i had voltage fluctuation ?Pc just shutdown , i pressed power button to reboot. I don’t have to flip switch on back psu. Why I don’t have to flip switch on back psu.?
 

litwicki23

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The 3080/3090 have power spikes that can trip PSU. Using EVGA persision X1 i can see my 2080 Ti go from a 80-90% power load to 107% and back down even though the power limit is set to 100%
But this happened just on intro advertisement part, when load is light. Also I don’t have to flip switch on back psu after shutdown.
 

faalin

Judicious
the switch on the back of the PSU is a power switch not a reset switch. Its not like a surge protector that you have to reset, this all happens within the PSU itself.

I dont have Metro Exodus so i cant test it but from advertisement to the title screen might not have a FPS cap, the game might only start to cap frames once in the game and playing.
 

litwicki23

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Last question.. Someone said that " If the power does not cut cleanly then internal protection circuits will trip in the power supply and it will require turning off and on to reset. Any fluctuation in the voltage (even briefly) as the power goes out will trip this protection. It is not unexpected and your power supply is designed to work this way in order to prevent damage. This can happen when your power utility experiences an issue, your house wiring has a problem, or you have a faulty appliance plugged in somewhere in your home that is causing problems"

But i didnt reset by switch the psu. So shutdown was not due voltage fluctuation then?He is right or not ?
 

litwicki23

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Thank you so much for help and replies. My last question. If that was voltage fluctuation or something , why pc shutdown and not rebooted?
If of course that was power short blip, he should reboot ,but he shutdown. Thanks.



And last question. After shutdown monitor flickered once after 10 seconds. Why?:)

Monitor was affected too why then?


PS:
Meanwhile laptop was on power ( no battery mode ) ,router on and ceiling lamps was on when i fast flip the switch on.
 
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