Power Sink-like cards

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

MaRo's newest column mentions Power Sink's newest cousin, to be included
in the forthcoming Fifth Dawn:

Condescend
{X}{U}
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays {X}.
Scry 2 (Look at the top two cards of your library. Put any number of
them on the bottom of your library and the rest on top in any order.)

Unlike other cards of this sort that have been printed in the past,
there is some point in playing Condescend for 0, because of the Scry
ability. Just out of curiosity, if I Condescend (or Syncopate or Sink)
my opponent's spell for 0, does he have the option of NOT paying the 0
and letting his spell be countered? Off the top of my head I don't see
why not. He would rarely if ever want to, of course, but I was
wondering if he even has the option if for some reason he does want to
do so.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 17 May 2004 05:14:46 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:

>MaRo's newest column mentions Power Sink's newest cousin, to be included
>in the forthcoming Fifth Dawn:
>
>Condescend
>{X}{U}
>Instant
>Counter target spell unless its controller pays {X}.
>Scry 2 (Look at the top two cards of your library. Put any number of
>them on the bottom of your library and the rest on top in any order.)
>
>Unlike other cards of this sort that have been printed in the past,
>there is some point in playing Condescend for 0, because of the Scry
>ability. Just out of curiosity, if I Condescend (or Syncopate or Sink)
>my opponent's spell for 0, does he have the option of NOT paying the 0
>and letting his spell be countered? Off the top of my head I don't see
>why not. He would rarely if ever want to, of course, but I was
>wondering if he even has the option if for some reason he does want to
>do so.

Yes, every time you get the _choice_ to do something you can choose to
say "no" (even when that something would amount to do nothing).

Actually you also have the choice to say "no" every time you get to do
something that is not revealed to a third person (just "the opponent"
is not enough here).
Example; when you cast Bribery (search opponents library for creature,
put into play on your side) you have the option of saying "sorry,
didn't find anything" even if your opponent _knows_ that his library
contains a creature.
Example 2; use Mindslaver to take over your opponents turn and use his
fetch land (eg. Wooded Foothills) - you can now choose to say "sorry,
didn't find any of those lands". Note: The land searching is visible
to your opponent, but not generally revealed thus you can "bluff" and
say no.
I think you can even choose to not find anything with Diabolic Tutor
even though it just searches for "a card" and it is obvious for all
that you have a non-empty library.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote:

> I think you can even choose to not find anything with Diabolic Tutor
> even though it just searches for "a card" and it is obvious for all
> that you have a non-empty library.

No. If you're simply searching for "any card", you must find a card (if
possible).

The purpose of that is to avoid calling over a judge to confirm that the
library was devoid of basic lands (or whatever). It doesn't take a
judge to confirm whether the library is totally empty of cards.

Search
If you're required to search a zone not revealed to all players for
cards matching some criteria, you aren't required to find those cards
even if they're present; however, if you do choose to find cards, you
must reveal those cards to all players. Even if you don't find any
cards, you are still considered to have searched the zone.
If you're simply searching for "any card," you must find a card (if
possible).
If you're required to search for a specific number of cards, you
must choose that many cards (or as many as possible.) Example: If an
effect causes you to search a player's library for all duplicates of a
particular card and remove them from the game, you may choose to leave
some of them alone, but if an effect causes you to search your library
for three cards and it contains at least three, you can't choose less
than three.
If an effects states to search for a [type, supertype, or subtype]
card, it can only find cards that have that type, supertype, or subtype.
It can't find a card that has a name equal to that type, supertype, or
subtype unless that card also has the type, supertype, or subtype.

--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b120644b78939f9989d2c@news.easynews.com>...
> MaRo's newest column mentions Power Sink's newest cousin, to be included
> in the forthcoming Fifth Dawn:
>
> Condescend
> {X}{U}
> Instant
> Counter target spell unless its controller pays {X}.
> Scry 2 (Look at the top two cards of your library. Put any number of
> them on the bottom of your library and the rest on top in any order.)
>
> Unlike other cards of this sort that have been printed in the past,
> there is some point in playing Condescend for 0, because of the Scry
> ability. Just out of curiosity, if I Condescend (or Syncopate or Sink)
> my opponent's spell for 0, does he have the option of NOT paying the 0
> and letting his spell be countered? Off the top of my head I don't see
> why not. He would rarely if ever want to, of course, but I was
> wondering if he even has the option if for some reason he does want to
> do so.

I bet you could even Condescend for zero a spell you had cast
yourself, pay zero so the spell is not countered, then Scry 2!
Remember Arcane Denial?!

Mike McC

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Mike McC <sprtsqrl@conpoint.com> wrote:
>Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote in message:
>> MaRo's newest column mentions Power Sink's newest cousin, to be included
>> in the forthcoming Fifth Dawn:

(hidden in the designer notes, so people that just looked at the pictures
may have missed it)

>> Condescend XU Instant
>> Counter target spell unless its controller pays X. / Scry 2 (*)
>>
>> Unlike other cards of this sort that have been printed in the past,
>> there is some point in playing Condescend for 0, because of the Scry
>> ability. Just out of curiosity, if I Condescend (or Syncopate or Sink)
>> my opponent's spell for 0, does he have the option of NOT paying the 0
>> and letting his spell be countered?

Yes, just as he could have done for Power Sink or Invoke Prejudice, or
Lilting Refrain or Excise. (Or, in another sense, for War Tax or War Cadence.)
Rethink, Soul Strings, and Cephalid Shrine also all have this "feature".

Of course, paying 0 is -easy-... but it's not -automatic-.

>I bet you could even Condescend for zero a spell you had cast
>yourself, pay zero so the spell is not countered, then Scry 2!
>Remember Arcane Denial?!

Yep, that's fine. (Again, for some reason I'm not seeing some posts recently
- didn't see Jeff's original yet...)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrncalhca.2o0.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> (Again, for some reason I'm not seeing some posts recently
> - didn't see Jeff's original yet...)

I still have a problem where I can't see your posts on my isp's newsserver.
(I do see Jeff's and all the others).

I wonder how these two problems are related.

I now read your posts on another news server and its working ok. It seems
like not so big a problem, because you can still read the invisible quotes
after they are quoted in other visible posts. But if this becomes a problem,
you might need to switch servers.

> >> Just out of curiosity, if I Condescend (or Syncopate or Sink)
> >> my opponent's spell for 0, does he have the option of NOT paying the 0
> >> and letting his spell be countered?
>
> Yes, just as he could have done for Power Sink or Invoke Prejudice, or
> Lilting Refrain or Excise. (Or, in another sense, for War Tax or War
Cadence.)
> Rethink, Soul Strings, and Cephalid Shrine also all have this "feature".
>
> Of course, paying 0 is -easy-... but it's not -automatic-.

As the resident
guy-who-points-out-how-things-used-to-be-under-very-old-rules, I see fit to
mention that power sink used to force you to pay X (and *not* give you a
choice).

-War_Pig5