Discussion Power supply discussion and recommended models thread

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Since i didn't see any sources/references/reviews in that LTT list which warrants it's position in Tier D.
i suggest reading the placing methodoligy then

Corsair VS series, the known system killer,
do you have pointers for this claim? because its a "eh" unit, but nothing is seriously wrong with it.

Corsair AXi 2013 - AXi 2014 - AXi 2018

There is no such lineup as AXi 2013. What there is, is: AX760i, AX860i and AX1200i, released in 2012. Also, AX760i and AX860i are discontinued PSUs at current date. Some digging and found the possible reason why:
thanks, something to look at, ill pass it on.

What's with the "single GPU setup"? Do you not know that there are 750W, 850W and 1kW PSUs that are more than capable running 2, 3 and 4 GPU setups?
its meant as a generlization for newbies to see what they are looking for, ive brought it up, but at this time other things have taken priority.


However, M12II-750 EVO and M12II-850 EVO aren't group-regulated, they are instead DC-DC, making them better than same series lower wattage units
that one seems to have gone lost in a revision at some point, previous placement was in Tier B (old ranking, which makes it either Tier B or B+) thanks for notifying as that unit was included previously.

And it is not based on reviews.
it is, its why there is linked sources and units rarely if ever get a placement before propper sources are in place.

It's biased and based on personal preference.
only thing that could be biased is the placement methodoligy, tho the methodoligy is not made by 1 person alone, and the people involved dont have any resentment towards certain brands or manufacturers.

In what world those Seasonic units are "Potentially dangerous"???
i suggest reading the entire thing as the previous focus fx units had serious ripple issues under certain load conditions. since that is a requirement for Tier D, thats the reason for its placements. its been covered multiple times before.
 
Apr 4, 2019
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Which was fixed with capacitors in the cables. Now the ripple is servicable.
untill reviews are out, nothing can be 100%, but the Focus GX/GM units have been given a temporary placement in Tier A.

note that stock of the fx is still sold alongside the GX in many stores.
 
i suggest reading the placing methodoligy then

i suggest reading the entire thing as the previous focus fx units had serious ripple issues under certain load conditions. since that is a requirement for Tier D, thats the reason for its placements. its been covered multiple times before.
These are two textbook examples of why that list is garbage. The methodology you describe is worthless and exists only to give you an excuse for being wrong. And the alleged "serious ripple issue" with the Focus only occurred in a single Chinese test at 900w during a 150w overload. Nobody competent is going to describe that as a "serious issue". And the list is littered with nonsense like that.
 
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And the alleged "serious ripple issue" with the Focus only occurred in a single Chinese test at 900w during a 150w overload. Nobody competent is going to describe that as a "serious issue".
it occured during testing that tested at that overload. the language of the text doesnt matter. i can only assume you mention it to lower its credibility.

the issue sadly means it receives the placement as per methodology. its harsh, but all units are treated equally. (oversights sadly happen)

The methodology you describe is worthless and exists only to give you an excuse for being wrong.
the issues are there. if you have a objective ranking system that doesnt involve a checklist of requirements for each tier. then we are all ears.
 
Oct 1, 2019
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the issues are there. if you have a objective ranking system that doesnt involve a checklist of requirements for each tier. then we are all ears.
It would be better to get rid of the requirements, so little flexibility can be made there. G3, G5, and Focus/Focus+ are in Tier D, along with some actual garbage... You aren't very likely to need the OPP to work anyway, since your components won't come close to the rated wattage.

Don't you think it's a problem when RMx, TXm, RM 2019, and Vengeance silver are all in the same tier?? 4 different PSUs of highly varying quality, yet you, Luke and the others decide it's OK to label them as "all the same quality"??

Please, I know most people on this forum aren't very knowledgeable with PSUs, but you and Luke are just making a laughingstock out of yourselves by pushing the tier list.

The_Mask, Jonnyguru, OrionFOTL, Rexper, and other credible people have pointed out that the tier list is close to trash. The idea's mistaken from the start to include 100+PSUs into only 5 tiers, because there's going to be massive variance in quality, lots of subjectivity (how much protections matter vary from person to person, and is highly subjective), etc.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Unless you are running HEDT hardware or multiGPUs you rarely if ever need to exceed a good 550w.
I7-9700k. 650w with equitable gpu.
I9-9900k. 850w with equitable gpu.
I9-9900ks 850w with equitable gpu.
R9-3900X. 650w with equitable gpu.
R9-3950x. 650w with equitable gpu.

Rx Vega. 650w + with any cpu.
RTX 2080. 600w + with any cpu.
RTX 2080ti. 650w + with any cpu.

And that's not including the oddballs like the Titans or FX 9590 or R9-295x2.

You can try and squeak by with a 'good' 550w for some of those, but don't be very surprised when OC fails, bsod, ntkernal errors etc happen because you are pushing power limits.

Any of the above are not by any means rare occurrences, but if you choose to shortchange a psu and run it at 95% to somewhere over 100% ability, you have no one to blame but yourself for issues/failures
 
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Aeacus

Illustrious
Herald
i suggest reading the placing methodoligy then

only thing that could be biased is the placement methodoligy, tho the methodoligy is not made by 1 person alone, and the people involved dont have any resentment towards certain brands or manufacturers.
Since the placement is biased, there's nothing else to talk about. The list is flawed beyond salvation and that's it.

do you have pointers for this claim? because its a "eh" unit, but nothing is seriously wrong with it.
Do i have review(s) to say so? No.

What i do have are lots of people from TH forums who have had huge issues with Corsair VS series where their PC won't turn on anymore or reboots once they start gaming.

Corsair is known brand and many people have bought Corsair VS series PSUs because they trust in a brand and also people tend to think little of PSU's importance. So, they get the cheapest unit of known brand, which for Corsair is VS series. Trouble starts when one day, there's 0 life from PC and PC won't turn on. At best, they are looking towards new PSU. At worst, they are looking towards anything new that the PSU was connected to. Same goes when PC reboots once game is launched. Here, PSU replacement with better quality unit is usually enough.
I rarely get any follow up replies from people who have bought "budget" PSUs (including Corsair VS series) and now are looking to fix their system. I explain the issue and give out suggestions how to fix their PC. Usually, "Thank you." from OP is the last thing i get in such topics.

its meant as a generlization for newbies to see what they are looking for, ive brought it up, but at this time other things have taken priority.
Is it really hard to edit that list by removing "single/multiple GPU setup" line? It's basic text editing. Or better yet, remove Tier A+ all together and put them all into Tier A.

it is, its why there is linked sources and units rarely if ever get a placement before propper sources are in place.
What there are, are 2x linked review to Focus+, one is for Focus+ 750 (Platinum) and another is for Focus+ 750 (Gold). There are 0 linked reviews for Focus (Gold) series (both semi-modular and fully-wired), none, nothing, making their placement erroneous.

Also, if you intentionally overload any PSU, even your beloved Tier S, you can be certain the PSU will produce out of specs results. No-one in their right mind would do that. If only to see how much the PSU is capable of by intentionally destroying it. 900W load on 750W rated PSU is stupid, especially if you consider that to rank the PSU. In this case, Focus+ 750 (Platinum).
It makes me wonder, was that review specifically dug up and used out of context to discredit Seasonic PSUs?


There are other things wrong in the list as well. Besides classifying entire PSU lineups by one unit alone, PSU lineups are also mashed together and classified by the platform used, but only at that extent which fits the agenda.

Example 01:
Antec High Current Gamer links to High Current Gamer M PSU in pcpp, which is different PSU lineup. Yet, when we look what proof LTT has provided for High Current Gamer, following is written:
High Current gamer
Based off internal shots, see Focus (plus)
No links, how cute. Also, it's royal screw up from the one who maintains that list since there are a lot of mash ups;

High Current Gamer (400W, 520W, 620W) - uses Seasonic GB Bronze platform, also used in Seasonic S12II (80+ Bronze) and M12II-520/620 EVO PSUs.
High Current Gamer (750W, 900W) - uses Delta Electronics platform.
High Current Gamer M (400W, 520W, 620W) - uses Seasonic GB Bronze platform, also used in Seasonic S12II (80+ Bronze) and M12II-520/620 EVO PSUs.
High Current Gamer M (750W, 850W) - uses Seasonic AT/AM platform, also used in Seasonic M12II-750/850 EVO PSUs.
High Current Gamer Gold (650W, 750W, 850W) - uses Seasonic FX (Focus+) platform.
High Current Gamer Extreme (850W, 1000W) - uses Seasonic FX (Focus+) platform.

The original High Current Gamer lineup has nothing to do with Seasonic Focus+ platform. Don't mash up several PSU lineups under one single banner. I know you can do it properly. Antec Earth Watts lineups are listed separately, as they should. Why don't do the same for HCG lineups?

Neo Eco Gold
Based off internal shots, see Focus (plus)
What? Also, from where the "Neo Eco Gold" comes from?

Your pcpp links to 520W Neo Eco 80+ Bronze, not 520W Neo Eco 80+ Gold. There have never been PSU lineup named:"Neo Eco Gold". What there are, are: Neo Eco, Neo Eco Classic, Neo Eco Modular and Neo Eco Zen (source). Latter has 80+ Gold efficiency but it's not named Neo Eco Gold.

With the naming sorted (since pcpp links to 520W 80+ Bronze unit, which is part of Neo Eco Classic lineup), how come Neo Eco lineups are also mashed together and are in the same boat as High Current Gamer? Do you people even know what are you doing?

I already cleared up the Antec HCG lineups, it's up to you to do the same for Neo Eco lineups as well. I only say this much that Neo Eco lineups (Neo Eco, Neo Eco Classic and Neo Eco Modular) are a mixture of OEMs, including: CWT, Delta and Seasonic. Also, none of the older Neo Eco lineups use Seasonic Focus+ platform. Neo Eco Zen may use Seasonic as an OEM and it may not. Since Neo Eco Zen came out few months ago and at current date, there are no reviews of them, what's your source of Neo Eco Zen using Seasonic Focus+ platform?

Example 02:
Tier A+
BeQuiet Dark Power Pro P10

Tier A
Seasonic XP (aka Platinum lineup)

Revelation time:
Dark Power Pro P10 (550W, 650W, 750W) - made by FSP.
Dark Power Pro P10 (850W, 1000W, 1200W) - made by Seasonic and uses XP platform, also used in Seasonic Platinum lineup.

Just because there's different name slapped on the PSU is enough to rank it higher?
Internally, Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro P10 850W and Seasonic Platinum 860W are same since both use the very same Seasonic XP platform.

i suggest reading the entire thing as the previous focus fx units had serious ripple issues under certain load conditions. since that is a requirement for Tier D, thats the reason for its placements. its been covered multiple times before.
Yes, that may be so but it got fixed. Speaking of it, similar issue was with Corsair AX760i, AX860i, AX1200i (which i linked in my previous reply) but i don't see them in Tier D. I wonder why?

I see quite a lot of Seasonic bashing in that list where when Seasonic units have had issues, they are stomped to the ground, despite the fact that Seasonic has fixed the issues since then and their units are fine. Still Seasonic units remain where they were stomped. But when someone else screws up (e.g Corsair AXi series with no OCP enabled), you guys look into other way like nothing ever happened.
 
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Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
The_Mask, Jonnyguru, OrionFOTL, Rexper, and other credible people have pointed out that the tier list is close to trash. The idea's mistaken from the start to include 100+PSUs into only 5 tiers, because there's going to be massive variance in quality, lots of subjectivity (how much protections matter vary from person to person, and is highly subjective), etc.
You had me here right up until you listed Rexper among experts. He literally doesn't know anything but how to regurgitate other peoples info and opinions from the JG forums. He actually admitted to me he doesn't know anything, and its part of one of multiple reasons why he is no longer welcome on this forum.

Otherwise I agree with your assessment. I hated this forum's tier list forever, and I praised the day it died. LTT has filled in the void it left, and here we are with the same discussion about how awful it is, due to many many factors pointed out by a lot of people here. The only difference here is nobody was ever defending Tom's list, here we do have someone defending it.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
And on that note, we are going to FOREGO any further talk about the LTT list HERE. If you do, I'll whack it. This is for discussion of power supplies, not for discussion of power supply lists. Especially ones that are obviously not even as good as the old Newegg tier list from many, many years ago, much less the one Dottorent created. And those had glaring discrepancies. DT's list was at least marginally accurate AND, he was somewhere in between moderately and fairly knowledgeable. I've seen nothing on that list that leads me to believe that anybody who is contributing to it is even at that level. So, I'm not here to bash anybody's work, per se, as I told Luke by PM when he contacted me, but the list is pretty bad and it creates sh!$ shows whenever discussion of it comes up so I'd appreciate that we keep discussion of it elsewhere.

If you want to talk about it someplace else, that's up to you, but I'd rather not create havoc in this thread and have to wipe out half the posts once it gets out of hand. If there is a particular unit somebody wants to discuss, or a platform, or anything related to power supplies specifically, that is not "list" related, then that's great and anybody is welcome to be here and have discourse with anybody else. Let's just not do the exact thing that caused the old PSU tier list thread to go face down in the mud.
 

Mezoxin

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I was planning on getting the focus plus 850w or 1000w this week , but I'm confused now , from what i read in the discussion the Seasonic Focus plus had an older version with voltage regulation problems and was fixed with an updated version , now me being in a third world country i suspect that we have old stock, our seasonic provider only offers 5 years warranty as well , how should i diffrentiate between the older and new version ?
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
I was planning on getting the focus plus 850w or 1000w this week , but I'm confused now , from what i read in the discussion the Seasonic Focus plus had an older version with voltage regulation problems and was fixed with an updated version , now me being in a third world country i suspect that we have old stock, our seasonic provider only offers 5 years warranty as well , how should i diffrentiate between the older and new version ?
The issue was with Seasonic FOCUS + Models manufactured before January 2018. I'd say its likely that you will not encounter these units, but its possible. I think the model numbers are still the same so unfortunately you can't identify them that way.
 
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Mezoxin

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Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Seems that that unit is a first attempt for the manufacturer Gigabyte contracted for that. While they did a nice job, for a first attempt, I'd probably avoid it for something better because although there are certainly much worse units out there, there were some concerns raised in that review including a failure to comply with Intel DC power specifications.

You could probably do a lot worse, but I'm rather skeptical when it comes to PSU reviews from Kitguru. I've seen them highly rate power supplies that Oklahoma wolf and Aris dumped on.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?16034-Gigabyte-AORUS-GP-AP850GM-review-KitGuru
 
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Mezoxin

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there were some concerns raised in that review including a failure to comply with Intel DC power specifications.
what are the effects of such incompliance with intel dc sequencing specifications ? is it common ? and why hasnt it affected the score of the PSU rating by much ?
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Basically it means that it is not compatible with the Haswell or newer Intel low power specifications. At least I'm pretty sure that is what they are referring to when they say Intel DC sequencing compliance, is the Haswell/newer low power state DC requirements. But there are likely OTHER aspects of the Intel compliance data sheet that they could be referring to in terms of non-compliance as well. They don't specify on the summary. I'll have to look at the review more closely to see if they mention specifics earlier in the review.

 
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Mezoxin

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This is from the review


and this is from intel

Does this confirm that its only drawback that it wouldnt work with the C7 sleep state ?
 

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