Discussion Power supply discussion and recommended models thread

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4745454b

Titan
Moderator
I'm not disagreeing with Intel, but what difference does this make? Maybe it's just because I woke up, but I fail to see what would be so wrong with the 3.3V rail having a 20ms lead time on the 5 or 12V rails. Does the PC explode? Anyone know why this is bad?

At least hold up time I slightly get. You need a cap with enough power to keep the PSU running to trip the power good signal if the main gets cut. This way the PSU can do whatever it needs to do before losing power. In the grand scheme of things however this isn't very important. At least to me. Ripple and voltage spec mean way more. Perhaps if I lived in a place with bad power I'd be concerned but neither of these matter much in my book.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Pretty much. Most overclockers disable c-states as a matter of course, along with every other eco setting, a smooth constant voltage being far preferable to multiple stages and multiple voltages which can create instability with transitions or power levels.

Personally, i only run S3 or higher, I don't bother with ultra deep sleep states.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Yes, that is (C6/C7) a "Haswell and newer compatible" issue and disabling C6/C7 in the BIOS should entirely eliminate the problem. The bigger problem is that from what I've seen the only units that don't comply are group regulated models, which means that there are likely OTHER issues possible. Hard to say for sure and really I don't have time to do a lot of research for a unit that is probably not all that great to begin with. But I wouldn't NOT buy the unit ONLY because of the lack of adherence to the Intel spec, especially if it's an AMD based system that doesn't have the same spec adherence requirements. Having only one review, which is at least minimally questionable, makes it difficult to actually assess the worth of these kinds of units. Again, you could probably do worse, but you could certainly do better.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
It's really a matter of what you can live with. Arguably one of the best series in the last batch of psus was the Evga G2, and the 550w was extremely well received and sold like hotcakes. But nobody bothers to really mention the fact it doesn't pass all the ATX specs. It runs @ 12ms holdup time, and ATX specs say it must be at least 16ms to pass. All that really affects is the type of wave from a UPS, I can live with it, I own a G2 550w.
 
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Mezoxin

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I'm not disagreeing with Intel, but what difference does this make? Maybe it's just because I woke up, but I fail to see what would be so wrong with the 3.3V rail having a 20ms lead time on the 5 or 12V rails. Does the PC explode? Anyone know why this is bad?
I guess that explains it
https://techreport.com/review/24897/the-big-haswell-psu-compatibility-list/


I think I remember lots of users experiencing an issue with the olc Seasonic X series back in the day , it wouldnt power on unless you unplug it from, the power source , it was never explained why, do you think its related ?
the issue did surface at the same time of the release of the haswell
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?11038-Seasonic-Platinum-1000W-issue



Personally, i only run S3 or higher, I don't bother with ultra deep sleep states.
Same Here i dont have much use for it

The bigger problem is that from what I've seen the only units that don't comply are group regulated models, which means that there are likely OTHER issues possible. Hard to say for sure and really I don't have time to do a lot of research for a unit that is probably not all that great to begin with. But I wouldn't NOT buy the unit ONLY because of the lack of adherence to the Intel spec, especially if it's an AMD based system that doesn't have the same spec adherence requirements. Having only one review, which is at least minimally questionable, makes it difficult to actually assess the worth of these kinds of units. Again, you could probably do worse, but you could certainly do better.
yeah but that specific dc sequencing test that kitguru performed is relatrively new to their benchmarking procedure and wasnt done for alot of other PSU's such as the focus plus or prime units

I just called the Seasonic supplier again today and they confirmed to me that the maximum warranty they provide for all their products line including the Prime is not 12 or 10 or even 5 years , Its only 3 years !!!
I live in Egypt btw and the supplier is Venus , i have found alot of users unsatisfied with their aftersales services
 
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Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Which warranty. Vendors can have any warranty period they chose to, or are beholden to by laws, the so the vendor/supplier could easily be 3 years, many vendors it's just 1 year. Got exactly nothing to do with manufacturers warranty of upto 12 years on the Primes, that's all Seasonic. Not Venus.

It's a simple procedure. In the first 3 years, anything goes wrong, you take the psu back to Venus. If you do not get resolution, or are refused, you get that in writing and contact Seasonic, send them proof of purchase and the refusal.

After the 3 years, you contact Seasonic directly, again with proof of purchase, or at least the manufacturing date. 0-2yr 364day = Venus, 3yr-12yr = Seasonic.
 
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Mezoxin

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Which warranty. Vendors can have any warranty period they chose to, or are beholden to by laws, the so the vendor/supplier could easily be 3 years, many vendors it's just 1 year. Got exactly nothing to do with manufacturers warranty of upto 12 years on the Primes, that's all Seasonic. Not Venus.

It's a simple procedure. In the first 3 years, anything goes wrong, you take the psu back to Venus. If you do not get resolution, or are refused, you get that in writing and contact Seasonic, send them proof of purchase and the refusal.

After the 3 years, you contact Seasonic directly, again with proof of purchase, or at least the manufacturing date. 0-2yr 364day = Venus, 3yr-12yr = Seasonic.
the cost of shipping + customs/taxes alonew for heavy PSU would render any overseas RMA to be very costly exceeding the price unit , gigabyte in egypt though doesnt require overseas RMA
 

Mezoxin

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there is also the issue of time that egyptian customs take to clear things off , i once had some spare parts for my motorcycle spend a duration of 6 months in the customs office before being cleared , and for no reason that would explain this

and they open everything up to examine it and i think they would probably damage the warranty seal of a psu to make sure there isnt any contraband inside , i remember a friend of mine was sent a box of chocolates for his birthday from overseas , he recieved it after 4 months with the box of chocolates opened the chocolates themsleves were unrapped and the chocolates melted with some complementary ants inside as well
 

Mezoxin

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Nov 3, 2019
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since i live in Egypt anything i have to send outside the country borders shall be considered international shipping and subject to customs and taxes.

I have found a Corsair RMi850w model for the same price that of the seasonic prime ultra 1000w , i dont need the extra wattage of the latter , but it would be nice to be able to monitor the psu and customize fan control in the corsair

https://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2015/08/24/corsair-rm850i-850w-power-supply/6/

Oklahoma Wolf gave it 9.9/10 , but the review was in 2015 , has something changed significantly in psu benchmarking since that ? would you reccomend it ?
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
I know some places have different warranty periods. Might be 10yrs here, and (sometimes much) less than that for other places. It wouldn't surprise me to learn other countries/areas have only a 3yr while we have 10 or 12.

So it's still a sleep state thing? That wouldn't effect DC-DC PSUs though. Because the minor rails are generated by the 12V so to speak it wouldn't matter their load? So why demand that the 3.3V rail comes on after the 12V? It seems odd in this day and age we would still be worried about that.
 

Aeacus

Illustrious
Herald
not 5years like seasonic in my country
I guess you don't know the following about Seasonic PSUs:
Since Warranty Periods may vary depending upon geographic region and product type, it is the responsibility of the consumer to check the exact Warranty Period that is printed on the carton. If you are living in a country where the point of sales entity grants a shorter warranty period than what is stated in the Seasonic Worldwide Warranty Policy or what is printed on the packaging carton of your product, Seasonic will always grant you the longer period of time. According to the European Union Directive 1999/44/EC, resellers in Europe have to provide warranty for a minimum period of two years on the products they sell.
source: https://seasonic.com/support

Meaning that even when you buy Seasonic Focus+, you'd still get 10 years of OEM warranty with your unit.

For example, i bought my Seasonic SSR-650TD from retail store which clearly stated that they, not Seasonic, offers only 2 years of warranty for that PSU. What that means is that within the 2 years of PSU's purchase, i can return it back to the point of purchase (store) and they take care any RMA/issues PSU has. If the 2 years is up, store won't deal with PSU RMA issues but Seasonic will. Which means that if i have any issues with my PSU, i need to contact Seasonic directly (which i don't mind).
Btw, my Seasonic PRIME 650 Titanium has 12 years of warranty, longest given to any PSU at current date. :sol:
 
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Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Actually 12 years is almost pointless. Granted it's an awesome psu, but ppl don't tend to keep a psu that long, it's the wrong color, not the right output, new designs come along, whatever reason.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
BS. I'm keeping my Prime ultra for 12 years, and then, if I'm still around, I'll replace it. Until then, it will be going in any subsequent builds I do and possibly a lot longer than that if it happens to fail and get replaced while within the warranty period. Unlike other hardware types, I've found that PSU manufacturers tend to fully replace the unit rather than sending a refurbished unit. I'm sure there are exceptions, but for at least about seven or eight units I've had to send for RMA over the last five years, they've all come back as brand new shrink wrapped units.
 

Aeacus

Illustrious
Herald
Same here. I bought my SSR-650TD to last as long as it's warranty period is, not to replace it in 2-3 years time. And since i have 650W unit, it has more than enough connectors for my use.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Well my G2 is now out of warranty, the 550w only got 5 years unlike its bigger brothers, and when I can afford to build a new pc, it'll probably get retired. Since that's not gonna happen until Windows 20 is out.....
 
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since this is the only place i can rant over recommendations, as much as i disagree with it.

a couple rants, which might've been mentioned before (by me and others)

<rant>
We didn't get any OCP results because our unit died during the OPP test, meaning either that this particular sample had a problem or OPP is set very high. Note that we conduct these tests at normal ambient temperatures, below 30°C.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-supernova-1000-g3-psu,4941-6.html

why would you recommend a g3 on that alone? then something comes added with that

OTP is set very high in our opinion, since we had to apply a huge thermal load on the secondary side to trigger it. The bulk cap's external casing nearly melted during our OTP evaluation.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-supernova-850-g3-psu,4930-6.html

you disqualify the s12iii based off that it's partly produced by RSY. then i recommend you write off the complete low end of Seasonic, as they're also partly produced at RSY (s12ii, m12ii, m12ii evo), and i don't know for what part, but from what i've heard SuperFlower also does part of it's production at RSY.

what's exactly wrong with FSP and EVGA? FSP has shown to make some amazing units for Listan (Be Quiet), even if those were mostly custom designs by bq themselves. heck, even evga themselves now have one of the better SFX units on hand with the GM. the g5 1000w has ripple issues, but there's nothing directly wrong with the lower wattage units, as they're based off (or at least close to my eye) to be quiet's power zone design, which was for a budget oriented unit just fine. maybe g5 wasn't meant to be a followup to the g2/g3 line.

speaking about g3, if you like it so much, why not start recommending the Leadex III? this is pretty much the fixed design version of the G3, even if it still is set high for my likings and the 750w has shown some ripple issues as well

CX/CXM green is internally the same as the current CXM 2015/17 on 750w+

what's wrong with CWT GPU/GPS?

does it have to be from a company that has been providing stuff for years so you don't give new players working together with the usual big OEMS like CWT, GW, FSP and so on a chance?

Single rail<Multirail, especially above 650w

realhardtechx hasn't been updating for a long time now

Focus FX has huge ripple issues, start shifting people over to GX/GM if it turns out okay

CX and CXM are not the same, and CX should always be chosen above it for the topology alone

AXi can't be beaten by prime, heck... i'd currently take something Delta GM based over it

what is selective about BQ if only 2 units are somewhat problematic? (pure power 11 300/350w), what makes it have a disadvantage over the others? because it's German?

Fortron/source isn't the only company that is part of FSP group

Cooler master has a unit that beats the crap out of most units you daily mention here, being the V platinum 2019, based off delta's GM platform, with that masterwatt, MWE v2 (if reviews turn out okay), Masterwatt Maker, Masterwatt maker MIJ and Masterwatt are in their class not horrible options, thermaltake does have some decent options including Toughpower Grand Gold, Toughpower Grand Platinum, iRGB Plus, DPS Gold and GF1. masterwatt lite just dropped that far because they had no UVP, and that's the thing i've been warning for that can happen on S12ii/M12ii and many other group regs with no or partly UVP.

I thought to have seen an actual decent chieftec a while back, but i don't recall the model

HEC/compubase/cougar is stupid to write off, as they are a major oem which can make decent units

same with High Power/Sifra

Xilence is part of the same company as Be Quiet, and has as decent units the performance X and A+

Raidmax once came close, but forgot otp on their 1200w 80+ titanium unit
</rant>

thanks for reading
 

Mezoxin

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Nov 3, 2019
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So today I bought the Corsair RM-850i , couldn't resist being able to monitor my power consumption / efficiency when Idle or Gaming , my PSU temp and having Control over Fan speed and noise ,
I knew I was sacrificing the premium of a simiraly priced but better platforms such as the HX-750 and seasonic prime ultra gold 1000w for that feature but i felt it was a more tangible upgrade than higher effeciency or wattage for my needs

Corsair has bumped up the warranty of the PSU to 10 years on the new version and its printed on the box the warranty provider is the same as seasonic here giving the same warranty options (3 years local warranty)

I have a couple of questions :
  1. the psu comes with the Multirail configuration enabled , should i keep it this way or switch to a single rail configuration ?
  2. On the Default fan profile the fan didnt spin at all when i was playing the witcher 3 for about 15 mins and the temp of the psu didnt exceed 37.5 c and maximum power in was around 320w and power out was 307w with an effeciency of 93% . when switching the fan profile to a preloaded custom fan profile The PSU was very silent under same load conditions with fan only ramping up to around 740 rpm and temp not exceeding 30c , which fan setting is preferable ?
 

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