Power Supply issues with i7 3770 + GTX 1060 6GB

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Zehownz

Zehownz

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Apr 11, 2017
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Hey guys, thank you for your attention. So, I've decided that I wanted to build a gaming PC. Since I'm on Senior year of Aeronautical Engineering (BTW, I live in Brazil) and I'm not sure of what is going to happen in the future, I decided that I wanted to build a PC with a graphics card that could handle 1080p very nicely + a processor that could handle the eventual ANSYS/SolidWorks/MatLab/Catia.

So I went with a Core i7 3770 (non-k, because I already had a Asus P8H61-M LX2 R2.0 motherboard in my house -for free-);
A Galax GTX 1060 6GB OC (I haven't Overclocked it);
16GB of Corsair DDR3 Value Select RAM (@1600MHz);
A 500Gb HDD (SSD on the way);
AND for Power Supply I used the Corsair and Outervision PSU Calculators, and the highest number I got was 335W (Load). Both programs recommended a 380W PSU (non existent here, 400W being the closest). I decided that I wanted to be a little more safe and got a 430W Bronze certification PSU from a local brand called PCYES. The exact model is PCYES Electro 430W.

>Here is a video from a reputable local Company that made me trust the brand, showing that the PSU actually offers 430W to the PC with 85% effiency, drawing 505W from the wall on full load: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXM3op-nsoc

Ever since the PC have been completed, I've been gaming and getting these annoying CTD on different games like Mafia III and The Witcher 3. Most of the times there aren't even error messages, the games just close.

I'm not sure if that is because of some power starvation coming from the PSU or if that is because of software issues. I did noticed though, that it happens mostly when the games are saving or loading a new cut scene or stuff like that.
I'd like some help figuring out what that could be.
Is that a software problem or is it my PSU?
Would updating the BIOS fix it?
Can someone help me, please?
Again, I appreciate your attention and BTW, sorry for my bad English.
 
Solution
Darkbreeze
First of all, you absolutely don't want that power supply. I realize that there are reviews on it showing that it outperforms the Corsair and EVGA 430w units:

https://www.tecmundo.com.br/fonte/74899-pcyes-fabricante-brasileira-fontes-supera-evga-corsair-testes.htm


But those are not high quality units to begin with. For the quality of the system you are putting together, which is really rather low in performance by todays standards since that is a 5 year old CPU platform, you really ought to be using something much higher quality considering the probable cost of even that platform in your country especially with a graphics card that likely cost you a considerable amount.

Seriously, you would be much better served, both in the short...
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It does not sound like a PSU problem to me and despite that brand not being know much outside of Brazil, their products score very highly in technical testing. It's enough wattage to run your computer fine.

have you;
updated the motherboard BIOS to the latest release
uninstalled your GPU drivers with DDU (http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html) and then reinstalled the latest driver from nvidia?
 
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First of all, you absolutely don't want that power supply. I realize that there are reviews on it showing that it outperforms the Corsair and EVGA 430w units:

https://www.tecmundo.com.br/fonte/74899-pcyes-fabricante-brasileira-fontes-supera-evga-corsair-testes.htm


But those are not high quality units to begin with. For the quality of the system you are putting together, which is really rather low in performance by todays standards since that is a 5 year old CPU platform, you really ought to be using something much higher quality considering the probable cost of even that platform in your country especially with a graphics card that likely cost you a considerable amount.

Seriously, you would be much better served, both in the short and long run, by finding something sold by Seasonic, Super Flower or some of the better models (But not all of their products are good) sold by EVGA, Corsair, FSP or Antec. There are many, even available in your country, that are much better than those being compared in that review including the PCYES unit.

Yes, your problems are likely to be power supply related issues, but there's always a chance that they are motherboard problems

(Especially since it's likely that free board is used and has already spent it's most valuable years. Motherboards don't last forever usually. They generally start seeing problems anywhere from 5-7 years in use. Capacitors start failing, among other things. You might want to look on the board and make sure there is no visible bulging or leaking of capacitors)

Or even issues with the graphics card itself. Most likely though is usually the power supply, which is exactly why it's important to get a high quality unit if you don't want to be having the same issues either immediately or a year from now.

Could also be a hard drive problem since it happens during writes and reads to the hard drive. How old is your hard drive? What is the model?
 
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Solution
Yeah, if the games just close and the system doesn't shut down, then I'd agree that it's PROBABLY not strictly a power supply issue, but it could still have relevance. Power supply failure or weakness can replicate just about any kind of software or hardware issue in existence.

Running the DDU and installing the latest drivers, along with making sure your motherboard has the very latest bios installed, are very good advice from Mark RM and is usually what I start out recommending except when the OP has already made mention of PSU replacement. That being said, this his how you'd want to go about doing that.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2767677/perform-clean-install-video-card-drivers.html
 
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It just doesn't feel like a PSU issue here with C2D in games. Bad PSU is going to shut down the video card or throw kernel panics or reboot the PC etc..

This is video drivers, corrupt steam storage of game files, something like that....

imo
 
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Possibly, I wouldn't rule anything out though. I've seen power supplies cause issues that absolutely looked like something else. If the power is not good, NONE of the hardware works right, or at least, not completely right.

My thought is either driver or more probably drive related since he said it only does it when reading or writing to the drive.

I did noticed though, that it happens mostly when the games are saving or loading a new cut scene or stuff like that.
Click to expand...
 
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I appreciate all the Help.
I haven't updated the BIOS yet because I've never done it before and I heard there is a chance you can brick your motherboard.
I'll try first to uninstall my GPU drivers with this DDU you guys mentioned and then reinstall everything.
The HDD I'm using right now is the one I pulled out of my "old" (2 years of use) Laptop. It's a TOSHIBA MQ01ABF050 (500 GB, 5400 RPM, SATA-III). I'm using this one until I can go tho another city pick up the new SSD and HDD that a family member brought to me from another country. And I did a clean Windows Install with a working Original Key.
BTW, when these games crash, my PC doesn't shut down or anything like that (I don't even get an error message). Windows is still running perfectly, my background applications are all normal and it only happens in a few games. BF1, BF4 and CS GO are perfectly normal, for example.
Another thing, Intel HD Graphics is not installed on my PC. Should I download and install it? There is nothing about Intel HD Graphics on the tray and nothing on "Uninstall a Program" section on the Control Panel.
 
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I haven't seen a motherboard get bricked in, many, many years. But that's your call.

Yeah, so do the clean install of the GPU card drivers, see if that helps. Move forward from there. The Intel drivers SHOULD be installed natively by Windows, and if you have a discreet card installed it shouldn't really matter as it's in a state of disabled anyhow.
 
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So I spent a good time last night doing more research and I found a guy on another forum that was having the same issue as me (I searched for the link but I wasn't able to find it in my browsing history). He figured out, however, that his problems were being caused by one of his two memory sticks that was bad.
I tried doing what he suggested that was running games and using as much ram as possible with one stick at a time.
Nothing happened, actually, there was no game closing for the entire morning today (running every thing in single channel, 1 stick at a time).
Doing some more research I found out that you can actually have Memory issues because of outdated BIOS versions. After that, I watched some videos about how to properly update my BIOS, grew a pair and did it (This was around 11:00 am here). It's now 16:00, I've been playing pretty much everything since and not even a crash has happened.
My BIOS version was 12XX (If I'm not mistaken, and the latest version was 1802). I've noticed no crashes >so far< and the system also seems to boot faster and work faster (like opening a folder, for example). I don't want to rush things and say that was the problem, but it >appears< that the outdated BIOS was the issue, like you guys mentioned.
I appreciate the help a lot! Seriously.
I'll think about changing my power supply in the future like you suggested, darkbreeze. I'm thinking about a CX-550M (I believe a 600W+ PSU for my system is way overkill, and unfortunately, that is one "the best" PSUs you can get in the 500W range here).
 
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That you so much Mark RM! I'll try that probably later today. I'll enjoy my PC working nicely for a while!
Another question: I was talking to my uncle today and he told me he had a WaterCooler stored somewhere in his house that he is not using any more (He migrated to a Laptop because of work and sold most of the remaining components of his PC). He said it is a closed loop and it was working perfectly (when he stored it around a year ago). He also said it's from Corsair, however, he couldn't remember the exact model.
If I want, I can pick it up for free. Do you think my current PSU could handle a WaterCooler?
Doing some simulations on Outervison's and Corsair's PSU Calculators everything >seems< fine.
Another thing: I've heard some horror stories about WaterCoolers cracking, throwing water all over the system and burning it. How "much of a truth" is that?
 
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You have a nonK cpu, not designed for overclocking. So I can't really see a need to install it (watercooling), the risk outweighs the reward.

People do stupid things when they install AIO water cooling, like getting nicks in coolant tubes and pulling too hard on fittings - breaks and leaks do happen on their own too. I use them I but I don't really care if I fry a motherboard or graphics card... there's enough stuff here to build 20 gaming rigs.

 
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Oh no, I know I can't OC my CPU, but the reason I was thinking about this WaterCooler is to quiet down my PC a little bit.
It's got 4 Fans on it right now (Not including the one on the CPU Cooler and the two on my GPU). Also, it sits on top of my table and when a start gaming (or it's late at night) it sound like a jet trying to take of.
 
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You might be a prime candidate for some high static pressure case fans that move more air more quietly then. You should open a new thread on that. An AIO won't intrinsically quiet your PC without all the other elements working in place along side it.
 
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I'll 100% guarantee you that the outdated bios was 99% of your problems. Glad to see that you "grew a pair" and did it. :)

Seriously though, yes, more than half the time when users have hardware issues on a system that is running any kind of newer hardware or has memory issues with memory that is known to be good, it's because of something lacking or outdated in the bios that is either errata or simply not up to date and therefore not supportive of the newer hardware. These days, I won't even buy a motherboard until there has been at least a couple of bios updates released and preferably no sooner than three or four months after the boards release so that others can be the guinea pig, not me.

Glad it worked out, I figured updating the bios would probably alleviate at least some of your troubles. Usually newer memory or graphics cards almost always caused problems on older boards that have not had the firmware upgraded but then is fine afterwards.
 
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The Corsair SP fans suck. I mean, they're better than cheapo ten dollar Rosewill or Antec fans by far, but they do not compete with actual high end fans when it comes to air movement, static pressure or sound pressure/decibel levels.

I'll be glad to share what I know about the subject with you if you wish, but I'm not certain that any of the fans I'd recommend are going to be available to you where you are, or if they are, whether they will be within the price range you'd be willing to pay. What I can tell you though is that short of buying an incredibly noisy industrial Delta fan, there are NO 120 or 140mm fans on the market that can compete with Noctua when it comes to static pressure AND low noise in the same fan. None. Nada. Nien. Nenhum.

There are some that come close and there are definitely some that are quieter, BUT, the key is looking at how the scores are reached. Be Quiet for instance, has much lower performance but are quieter, because they limit the RPMs so they are quiet but lack performance. So, not terrific design, just tricks to look good on the spec sheet. Still, they make good products, just not AS good. Same goes for many others.

Blacknoise/Noiseblocker makes superb fans too, they perform ok and are really quiet. But they have poor static pressure.

Corsair fans can move a fair amount of CFM and have ok static pressure, but they are loud, because they need much higher RPM to achieve those CFM and static pressure ratings.

Anyhow, I could talk about fans for days because it's my primary area of focus, including testing and comparing them, but I'll stop there.
 
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We are seriously feeling the passion here. That's not a snide remark... reminds me of how excited we got experimenting with gasses in the cascades.

I admit I buy Noctua, but availability for global markets isn't always great, our OP is in Brazil? I believe.
 
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Yep, that's why I said I wasn't sure it was either available to him, or if it was, would be at a price he'd be willing to pay. Typically, Noctua is not that much more expensive than corsair, but that's in US and UK markets. Other countries, even ones near Austria where they are made, seem to be much harder to access them and a lot more expensive. Of course, everything seems to be a lot more expensive everyplace that's not the US or UK.
 
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Wow! I can see you know "a thing or two" about fans. Hahaha
And I do need some help on this matter. Just so you guys can understand, I just did this test: I opened Witcher 3, than changed the tab and opened AIDA64 to put a stress test on my CPU. After that, I went into Sensors on my phone and it was registering 62dB when placed 2 inches from the PC. The PC, however, sits about 1.5 ft away from me.
I just looked at the "South American Ebay" (MercadoLivre) and there are actually 5 Noctua Fans for sale (in the entire country, however).
There is 1 Nf-p14r redux (for quite an interesting price actually, and it's gray), one Nf-a8 Pwm (brown), one Nf-p14 (brown), and 1 Nf-s12a Flx (brown).
The last one (Nf-s12a Flx) would be interesting to replace the one I have on my cooler (Cooler Master Blizzard T2). But which one of the four would you recommend? The 5th one I mentioned has got an absurd price tag.
 
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I'm sorry, I forgot to mention.
Since I had a fixed budget for this build I decided to spend everything on "horsepower" and don't care about aesthetics. So, because of that, I picked up an old (2000's, I believe) gaming Mid Tower for free. It's from a brand called GoldShip and I had never heard of it before.
The case has a 80mm fan slot as an intake in the front, 2 80mm fan slots on the back and 2 80mm fan slots on the side panel (just under the where the GPU would be).
What I did was: removed all the bays in the front and put a 120mm fan + a air screen/filter (as an intake);
Put a 80mm fan in the original location in the front (as an intake);
Put a 80mm fan underneath the GPU (as an exhaust);
And for last a 80mm fan at the back (as an exhaust).
So, in the end, there is 1 empty slot on the back and 1 empty slot on the side. Temperatures are actually pretty nice, but the noise, as I mentioned, is not.
The hole I opened in the front of the case can fit 120mm or 140mm fans, I believe. But I would have to double check the Full size of the fan.
 
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Ok. We're done here.

Nah, just kidding. SERIOUSLY though, you should consider at least a modest budget case that allows you to have AT MINIMUM : 2 front x140, 1 top x140 and one rear 120mm. Having two top 140mm is even better, but not, strictly, a necessity. I think a 120mm or 140mm rear exhaust is a necessity. I think a top 120/140 at the rear top of the case is a necessity. I think that 2 x120/140 in the the front is a necessity.

That being said, I think the fact that you have 80mm fans installed is 90% of your noise problem. Those fans would have to run at full speed all the time just to provide halfway decent thermals. Having 120mm fans in those locations would probably cut down your volume level by half. Having 140's installed would likely reduce it by about 70%.

More important though is the fact that the motherboard you have is only equipped with a single CPU_FAN header and a single CHA_FAN header. The CPU fan is four pin and allows custom controls through the ASUS FanXpert utility, and maybe through the bios. The Chassis fan, which is only a three pin header, does not appear to have any user definable settings in the bios and is not compatible with the FanXpert utility, which means that it either has a single preset curve that is not user changeable, or is simply full speed at all times.

Where EXACTLY are your fans connected and how are they connected to whatever header they are connected to?
 
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I spent all of the budget I HAD on performance. I'm saving for the next upgrades now. I was considering buying fans first (because of the noise issue) and than a case (or the other way around).

The 120mm fan and the two 80mm fans on the front and on the side are connected to molex cables from the PSU.
The 120mm CPU fan is connected to the CPU fan controller on the motherboard. The 80mm fan on the back is connected to the chassi controller on the motherboard.

You said there is no control to the chassi fan, however, I notice quite clearly this fan changing it's tone when the PC is under load. That is the one making the most amount of noise, and it's quite an annoying sharp sound.

One last thing: Just now I found a case (It's "cheap", new, and has an acrylic panel) that's got everything you said, however, instead of having a top slot for a 120/140mm fan, it's got one on the side. To me that >seems< actually better to keep the GPU cool. Would you agree? Any thoughts?
 
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