Question power supply necessary to bring ram to 3200 speeds?

andrepartthree

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Boy I feel so stupid posting this :) ... technically I'm not overclocking.. or I don't think that I am anyways.. in that I absolutely refuse to overclock any of my AMD ryzen CPU's due to a combination of ignorance and paranoia on my part :p .. I absolutely salute and respect those on this forum who have the technical expertise and knowledge to do so but quite frankly I'm too scared :)

My area of interest is more in getting the ram I purchased to it's 3200 speed.. I've already read some of the excellent posts in this forum re: ram and overclocking thanks so much you guys :) .. although from what I understand (I could be wrong?) "overclocking" the ram in my case just means getting it to the 3200 speed that the label on the ram says it's supposed to go at?

I have three desktop PC's all of which are Asus boards so apparently you change the settings from "auto" to "DOCP" in the "AI Overclock Tweaker" like in this video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS9qzqwHbBY


so I did this with my daughter's desktop PC rig having no clue that a good power supply is necessary (like I said I'm ignorant :p ) and I got lucky .. here's my daughter's PC rig setup

- G.Skill RipJaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin SDRAM PC4-25600 DDR4 3200 CL16-18-18-38 1.35V Dual Channel DesktopMemory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB

(that was two sticks of 8 GB ram at first, encountered my problem when I added two more of the exact same sticks of ram bringing it to 32 GB total)

- ASUS TUF GAMING B450M-PLUS II AM4 AMD B450 SATA6Gb/s Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

- AMD Ryzen 3 3300X Processor W/Wraith Stealth Cooler - 100-100000159BOX (stock "wraith" cooler)

- EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SC GAMING, 4GB GDDR5, DX12
OSD Support (PXOC) Graphics Card 04G-P4-6253-KR

- three SSD drives (2.5 form factor), one Western Digital Black "Performance" drive

- CD/DVD tray (I know I know outmoded :p, the PC case is ancient but my kids love it and don't want me to upgrade it - ancient ultra defender 2 case)

- six 120 mm case fans

- Thermaltake TR2 TR-600 600W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply

And yep I know (now) that the 600 watt power supply is what's killing me, it's not even a tier C power supply from what I understand ..

Despite that amazingly enough (and being too stupid to realize " Hey maybe I shouldn't try to increase the default ram speed with a terrible power supply) when I set the two sticks of ram to 3200 speed the PC had no problem with this.

Then I added two more of the exact same sticks of ram , four sticks of 8 GB for 32 GB ram total (my daughter has a lot of programs open at once so I thought it might help her PC go even faster I'm greedy that way :) ) and ... all sorts of heart attacks on my end with the PC turning on but no video showing on the monitor, bios randomly not seeing various sticks of ram in there.. finally it occurred to me to turn off DOCP and set it back to "auto" and problem solved in that the bios can now see the ram.

So I get that an upgrade to a better power supply would help at this point.. but here's where I'm conflicted. I'd really rather not spend $200 on a power supply (my wife would kill me :) ) and just stick with the budget power supplies (albeit not as budget as the one above :p ) even if it means I can't bring the ram beyond the "default" 2133 (I think it's 2133 ?) speed...

Would it be correct to say that this is about how much I'd have to spend to get a power supply that will let ram run at 3200 speed? I say $200 only because I'm guessing (I could be wrong) that you need a tier A power supply and going off a thread like this one

https://techwafer.com/psu-tier-list/

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-V850-Platinum-Full-Modular/dp/B07NQTTGZW

https://www.amazon.com/quiet-Titanium-Efficiency-virtually-inaudible/dp/B08XWSYMRV

that's a few examples of how much tier A power supplies cost.. and if that's the case in order to be able to preserve myself from my wife's wrath :p I'd rather just stick with my tier B (I think it's a tier B?) coolermaster 750 watt masterwatt bronze certified power supply I got on sale last Black Friday/December winter sale for about $36 after rebate (yep I know I'm being cheap :) )

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074ZLQZH6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think I know the answer to this one though.. it's safe to assume that increasing the ram speed to 3200 for four sticks of ram would be a bad idea with that coolermaster master watt power supply ? And am I also correct in that I'm looking at a $200 power supply to safely overclock the four sticks of ram to 3200 speed?

I thought about starting a new thread for these other two questions but I was afraid of annoying people on here by posting three threads all at once :( , forgive me if I'm doing the wrong thing here...

In my son's desktop PC I got lucky and his two sticks of ram are running at 3200 speed and from what I've seen on the forums a lot of it is just that, luck, it either works or it doesn't.. but is there a risk of making his desktop PC unstable? Should I go back into BIOS and set it back from DOCP to overclock and just let the ram run at 2133 speed instead? His desktop build is

-Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35VDesktop Memory - Black, 2 count (pack of 1) (so two ram sticks each 16 GB)

-AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-core, 12-Thread Unlocked Desktop Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler (stock cooler)

-ASUS TUF Gaming B550M-PLUS AMD AM4 (3rd Gen Ryzen™) Micro ATX GamingMotherboard

- MSI Gaming Radeon RX 570 256-bit 8GB GDRR5 DirectX 12 VRReady CFX Graphcis Card (RX 570 ARMOR MK2 8G OC)

- three SSD drives (2.5 form factor), one Western Digital Black "Performance" drive, one m2 form factor drive Crucial P3 1TB PCIe 3.0 3D NAND NVMe M.2 SSD, up to 3500MB/s -CT1000P3SSD8

- CD/DVD tray (another ancient ultra defender 2 case)

- six 120 mm case fans

- CORSAIR CX Series CX750 (New) CP-9020123-NA 750W ATX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Non- Modular Active PFC Power Supply

and.. last question I promise :) .. for my own desktop build I had a few heart attacks putting together my PC build (well more like swapping out the motherboard/CPU/RAM instead which is what I did with all three of these desktop PC's) when I kept getting an error message causing the system to boot into BIOS before it finally occurred to me to just unseat and reseat the two ram sticks after which the system was happy and booted up into Windows... after that heart attack I just left the ram at it's default 2133 speed and I'm wondering if it would be wise to just leave well enough alone and let it stay at that speed instead of the 3200 speed the ram is capable of?.. my desktop PC build is

-AMD Ryzen™ 7 5700X 8-Core, 16-Thread Unlocked Desktop Processor

-Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE CPU Air Cooler, Dual Tower 6 Heat Pipe,Dual 120mm TL-C12C PWM CPU Fan, for AMD AM4/AM5/Intel LGA1700/1150/1151/1200, AGHP Technology, Aluminium Heatsink Cover

-Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35VDesktop Memory - Black, 2 count (pack of 1) (so two sticks of 16 GB ram)

-Asus TUF Gaming B550-PLUS AMD Chipset Socket AM4 ATX Motherboard

-ASUS GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Dual-Fan OC Edition VR Ready Dual HDMI DP 1.4 Gaming Graphics Card (DUAL-GTX1060-O6G)

- four 2.5 form factor SSD drives, one Western Digital 2TB WD Red Plus Internal Hard Drive 5400 RPM WD20EFZX (amazon shipped it to me by mistake then let me keep it for free :) .. amazingly enough it's been working fine for me as a desktop drive to store files) and one Seagate SkyHawk 4TB Surveillance Hard Drive (ST4000VX007) (snagged it from my direct TV DVR dock when we ditched Direct TV and also works surprisingly well for me as a desktop drive to store files)

- three 140 mm fans, one 120 mm fan

- CD/ROM tray

- Thermaltake Toughpower Grand RGB 850w Fully Modular Power Supply 80 Plus Gold Certified + Riing 14 RGB Fan

Sorry I know that's a lot to throw into a single post .. to anyone who takes the time to read and this and reply you have my heartfelt thanks and gratitude :) ..
 

Zerk2012

Titan
Ambassador
Boy I feel so stupid posting this :) ... technically I'm not overclocking.. or I don't think that I am anyways.. in that I absolutely refuse to overclock any of my AMD ryzen CPU's due to a combination of ignorance and paranoia on my part :p .. I absolutely salute and respect those on this forum who have the technical expertise and knowledge to do so but quite frankly I'm too scared :)

My area of interest is more in getting the ram I purchased to it's 3200 speed.. I've already read some of the excellent posts in this forum re: ram and overclocking thanks so much you guys :) .. although from what I understand (I could be wrong?) "overclocking" the ram in my case just means getting it to the 3200 speed that the label on the ram says it's supposed to go at?

I have three desktop PC's all of which are Asus boards so apparently you change the settings from "auto" to "DOCP" in the "AI Overclock Tweaker" like in this video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS9qzqwHbBY


so I did this with my daughter's desktop PC rig having no clue that a good power supply is necessary (like I said I'm ignorant :p ) and I got lucky .. here's my daughter's PC rig setup

- G.Skill RipJaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin SDRAM PC4-25600 DDR4 3200 CL16-18-18-38 1.35V Dual Channel DesktopMemory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB

(that was two sticks of 8 GB ram at first, encountered my problem when I added two more of the exact same sticks of ram bringing it to 32 GB total)

- ASUS TUF GAMING B450M-PLUS II AM4 AMD B450 SATA6Gb/s Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

- AMD Ryzen 3 3300X Processor W/Wraith Stealth Cooler - 100-100000159BOX (stock "wraith" cooler)

- EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SC GAMING, 4GB GDDR5, DX12
OSD Support (PXOC) Graphics Card 04G-P4-6253-KR

- three SSD drives (2.5 form factor), one Western Digital Black "Performance" drive

- CD/DVD tray (I know I know outmoded :p, the PC case is ancient but my kids love it and don't want me to upgrade it - ancient ultra defender 2 case)

- six 120 mm case fans

- Thermaltake TR2 TR-600 600W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply

And yep I know (now) that the 600 watt power supply is what's killing me, it's not even a tier C power supply from what I understand ..

Despite that amazingly enough (and being too stupid to realize " Hey maybe I shouldn't try to increase the default ram speed with a terrible power supply) when I set the two sticks of ram to 3200 speed the PC had no problem with this.

Then I added two more of the exact same sticks of ram , four sticks of 8 GB for 32 GB ram total (my daughter has a lot of programs open at once so I thought it might help her PC go even faster I'm greedy that way :) ) and ... all sorts of heart attacks on my end with the PC turning on but no video showing on the monitor, bios randomly not seeing various sticks of ram in there.. finally it occurred to me to turn off DOCP and set it back to "auto" and problem solved in that the bios can now see the ram.

So I get that an upgrade to a better power supply would help at this point.. but here's where I'm conflicted. I'd really rather not spend $200 on a power supply (my wife would kill me :) ) and just stick with the budget power supplies (albeit not as budget as the one above :p ) even if it means I can't bring the ram beyond the "default" 2133 (I think it's 2133 ?) speed...

Would it be correct to say that this is about how much I'd have to spend to get a power supply that will let ram run at 3200 speed? I say $200 only because I'm guessing (I could be wrong) that you need a tier A power supply and going off a thread like this one

https://techwafer.com/psu-tier-list/

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-V850-Platinum-Full-Modular/dp/B07NQTTGZW

https://www.amazon.com/quiet-Titanium-Efficiency-virtually-inaudible/dp/B08XWSYMRV

that's a few examples of how much tier A power supplies cost.. and if that's the case in order to be able to preserve myself from my wife's wrath :p I'd rather just stick with my tier B (I think it's a tier B?) coolermaster 750 watt masterwatt bronze certified power supply I got on sale last Black Friday/December winter sale for about $36 after rebate (yep I know I'm being cheap :) )

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074ZLQZH6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think I know the answer to this one though.. it's safe to assume that increasing the ram speed to 3200 for four sticks of ram would be a bad idea with that coolermaster master watt power supply ? And am I also correct in that I'm looking at a $200 power supply to safely overclock the four sticks of ram to 3200 speed?

I thought about starting a new thread for these other two questions but I was afraid of annoying people on here by posting three threads all at once :( , forgive me if I'm doing the wrong thing here...

In my son's desktop PC I got lucky and his two sticks of ram are running at 3200 speed and from what I've seen on the forums a lot of it is just that, luck, it either works or it doesn't.. but is there a risk of making his desktop PC unstable? Should I go back into BIOS and set it back from DOCP to overclock and just let the ram run at 2133 speed instead? His desktop build is

-Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35VDesktop Memory - Black, 2 count (pack of 1) (so two ram sticks each 16 GB)

-AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-core, 12-Thread Unlocked Desktop Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler (stock cooler)

-ASUS TUF Gaming B550M-PLUS AMD AM4 (3rd Gen Ryzen™) Micro ATX GamingMotherboard

- MSI Gaming Radeon RX 570 256-bit 8GB GDRR5 DirectX 12 VRReady CFX Graphcis Card (RX 570 ARMOR MK2 8G OC)

- three SSD drives (2.5 form factor), one Western Digital Black "Performance" drive, one m2 form factor drive Crucial P3 1TB PCIe 3.0 3D NAND NVMe M.2 SSD, up to 3500MB/s -CT1000P3SSD8

- CD/DVD tray (another ancient ultra defender 2 case)

- six 120 mm case fans

- CORSAIR CX Series CX750 (New) CP-9020123-NA 750W ATX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Non- Modular Active PFC Power Supply

and.. last question I promise :) .. for my own desktop build I had a few heart attacks putting together my PC build (well more like swapping out the motherboard/CPU/RAM instead which is what I did with all three of these desktop PC's) when I kept getting an error message causing the system to boot into BIOS before it finally occurred to me to just unseat and reseat the two ram sticks after which the system was happy and booted up into Windows... after that heart attack I just left the ram at it's default 2133 speed and I'm wondering if it would be wise to just leave well enough alone and let it stay at that speed instead of the 3200 speed the ram is capable of?.. my desktop PC build is

-AMD Ryzen™ 7 5700X 8-Core, 16-Thread Unlocked Desktop Processor

-Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE CPU Air Cooler, Dual Tower 6 Heat Pipe,Dual 120mm TL-C12C PWM CPU Fan, for AMD AM4/AM5/Intel LGA1700/1150/1151/1200, AGHP Technology, Aluminium Heatsink Cover

-Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35VDesktop Memory - Black, 2 count (pack of 1) (so two sticks of 16 GB ram)

-Asus TUF Gaming B550-PLUS AMD Chipset Socket AM4 ATX Motherboard

-ASUS GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Dual-Fan OC Edition VR Ready Dual HDMI DP 1.4 Gaming Graphics Card (DUAL-GTX1060-O6G)

- four 2.5 form factor SSD drives, one Western Digital 2TB WD Red Plus Internal Hard Drive 5400 RPM WD20EFZX (amazon shipped it to me by mistake then let me keep it for free :) .. amazingly enough it's been working fine for me as a desktop drive to store files) and one Seagate SkyHawk 4TB Surveillance Hard Drive (ST4000VX007) (snagged it from my direct TV DVR dock when we ditched Direct TV and also works surprisingly well for me as a desktop drive to store files)

- three 140 mm fans, one 120 mm fan

- CD/ROM tray

- Thermaltake Toughpower Grand RGB 850w Fully Modular Power Supply 80 Plus Gold Certified + Riing 14 RGB Fan

Sorry I know that's a lot to throw into a single post .. to anyone who takes the time to read and this and reply you have my heartfelt thanks and gratitude :) ..
Memory uses so little watts most people don't even figure it into the build.
Set DOCP it really helps AMD performance.
 
two sticks of ram to 3200 speed the PC had no problem with this.

Then I added two more of the exact same sticks of ram , four sticks of 8 GB for 32 GB ram total (my daughter has a lot of programs open at once so I thought it might help her PC go even faster I'm greedy that way :) ) and ... all sorts of heart attacks on my end
mixed RAM kits are never guaranteed to work together.
the types of issue(s) you describe after adding the second kit is common.

it's very likely that upgrading the power supply will have no affect whatsoever.

when adding more memory it is always a better idea to just retire the existing modules and add a new matched kit.
 
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andrepartthree

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mixed RAM kits are never guaranteed to work together.
the types of issue(s) you describe after adding the second kit is common.

it's very likely that upgrading the power supply will have no affect whatsoever.

when adding more memory it is always a better idea to just retire the existing modules and add a new matched kit.

thank you and thank you Zerk2012 too for your quick replies I really really appreciate it :) .. But JohnBonhamsGhost .. and my apologies it was such a long wall of text I can see how someone would miss this part :p .. in the case of my daughter's desktop PC when the PC refused to even get to the point where there was a display on the screen all four sticks of ram were exactly the same :( .. I made sure to buy two ram sticks identical to the two sticks that were already in the PC, same manufacturer and specs and everything - amazon even told me " Hey you've bought this item two times " so I know it's definitely the exact same ram sticks :) ..

....or to put it another way in my daughter's PC all four sticks were " G.Skill RipJaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin SDRAM PC4-25600 DDR4 3200 CL16-18-18-38 1.35V Dual Channel DesktopMemory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB " ...

...in my desktop PC both sticks of ram are "Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35VDesktop Memory - Black, 2 count (pack of 1) (so two ram sticks each 16 GB)"

... and in my son's desktop PC both sticks of ram are "Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2X16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35VDesktop Memory - Black, 2 count (pack of 1) (so two ram sticks each 16 GB)"

so believe me I'm too scared to mix up RAM sticks of a different type at all in the same PC , I've heard about how bad things can get if you do that and I'm too scared/nervous to touch that with a ten foot pole :)

Unless.. I totally misunderstood you and you're saying rather than add two sticks of identical ram to the first two sticks of ram I should instead get rid of all four sticks of ram and say get two 16 GB sticks of ram? I snagged the two extra sticks of G.Skill Ripjaws because they were on sale for $50 ... I guess I could return them and snag the two corsair vengeance 16 GB sticks of ram I mentioned above for $75 (also on sale right now :) ) if I'm understanding correctly?

Also ..and please bear in mind not trying to argue truly I appreciate to the bottom of my heart any help that is given :) .. but now I'm confused :( .. I saw this thread

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/pc-is-not-booting-after-xmp-profile.3797829/

and the second post on there by punkncat and I came to the conclusion (quite possibly a mistaken conclusion I'm known to jump to those :p ) that unless I get some expensive tier A power supply it's not a good idea to bring my ram to the 3200 speed it's supposed to run at... but you and Zerk2012 are saying that's not true and to go ahead and try it?

Given the info in the thread above would you recommend I install the 750 watt power supply I mentioned earlier (cooler master masterwatt bronze certified one) and then try increasing the speed to 3200 for the ram?

One reason I'm nervous about bringing it up to the 3200 speed like I want to is this thread


I got the definite impression it's kind of "dicey" boosting the ram to 3200 speed especially after the one post by jasonf2 at the end of the thread which is why I jumped to the (again possibly mistaken :p ) conclusion that I could brick the whole system and cause it to not boot at all if I make the wrong " move " as far as setting DOCP such that the 3200 speed is recognized ....my daughter's PC refusing to display anything on the computer screen was really scary for me, can't fix it if I can't get an image on the screen :) .. or am I worrying too much? Is the no display on the screen thing a common thing that goes away if you just keep turning the PC on and off ?

Now that I think about it .. and again just me the random idiot making random guesses on my part :p .. it occurs to me that the two tom's hardware forum posts I linked above are concerning XMP .. is DOCP more forgiving than XMP as far as the ability to get to 3200 ram speed and/or the power supply that's required?

I'm really torn about this... I keep hearing about how even for people like me who don't have integrated graphics built into the AMD ryzen CPU that these CPU's really love ram with higher speeds than the default 2133 ... but I'm also scared of messing up my desktop PC's :) ..
 

DSzymborski

Titan
Moderator
RAM doesn't work like that, it's not the exact same. RAM is basically "assigned" a branding based on how defective it is. It's a binned part; there's no assembly line that produces x brand y MHz RAM. When you have a package of Corsair 3000 MHz RAM, it just means that the two sticks of RAM they tested are too crappy to be sold as 3200 MHz RAM and too good to sell as 2666 MHz RAM and they meet the specs of their 3000 MHz whatever brand and have been tested to work together. You can buy two sets of RAM, with identical branding, boxed at the factory consecutively, and sold at the same retailer on the same shelf, and have them not work together. Now, it's more likely they'll work together since their specs are similar, but only RAM sold together is guaranteed to work together and no two sticks of RAM are identical.
 
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andrepartthree

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RAM doesn't work like that, it's not the exact same. RAM is basically "assigned" a branding based on how defective it is. It's a binned part; there's no assembly line that produces x brand y MHz RAM. When you have a package of Corsair 3000 MHz RAM, it just means that the two sticks of RAM they tested are too crappy to be sold as 3200 MHz RAM and too good to sell as 2666 MHz RAM and they meet the specs of their 3000 MHz whatever brand and have been tested to work together. You can buy two sets of RAM, with identical branding, boxed at the factory consecutively, and sold at the same retailer on the same shelf, and have them not work together. Now, it's more likely they'll work together since their specs are similar, but only RAM sold together is guaranteed to work together and no two sticks of RAM are identical.

(mouth drops open then shrieks) " CUUUUUURRRRRSSSEEEEE YOU RAM STICK MANUFACTUERS!".. sorry for the outburst but .. is it just me or does anyone else thing this is a total rip off to the consumer? Grrrrrr... though again I could be speaking out of ignorance .. and DSzymborski thank you so much for telling me this I was definitely under the impression buying two sticks of ram exact same model from the exact same manufacturer would get me .. well, four identical sticks of ram like I would think most people (okay fine uneducated people like me who don't know as much about PC's as you guys do :) .. no sarcasm btw I really mean that ) would assume is the case.

Man.. I dropped like $88 with tax on the first two 8 GB sticks of G.Skill ripjaws ram for my daughter's PC back in the year 2021.. of course prices fall as the years go by especially so recently it seems for certain computer parts , I was so stoked to grab two more 8 GB sticks of what I THOUGHT were the exact same ram sticks for $50 .. forgive me I'm getting bitter here now :p , not directed at any of you guys I swear :) ... and now I'm told that I'm screwed and I need to return the second two sticks of ram for $50, sigh and toss aside the first two sticks I paid $88 for and buy two entirely new sticks of say corsair vengeance 16 GB ram at $75 (more like $80 with tax).. man this sucks ! But at least now I know thank you guys for that... grrrrrr....

And apologies for my confusion about the power supply, it's just I see threads like the one I quoted above (admittedly for XMP not DOCP ) and then I see this thread


where the discussion in that thread (minus the argument that broke out :) ) seems to imply that a higher quality PSU and/or one with more watts might help with overclocking (although I could be taking that totally out of context, the OP in that thread seemed to be asking about overclocking both his CPU and his RAM and overclocking the ram to 3600 not the 3200 I'm after).

So (looks wistful)... you guys are sure that I couldn't just drop the 750 watt coolermaster masterwatt power supply into my daughter's PC and hope the 150 watt jump in power would cause the four G.Skill ripjaws ram sticks to play nice and go to 3200 speeds? Do you think it's at least worth a try so I don't have to eat the $88 loss on those first two sticks of ram from 2021 ? Again not trying to argue you guys are the experts not me it's just.. this whole situation really bites :( ...

Or.. and I guess you guys can see I really don't want to get burned on the $88 I spent on the 2021 sticks of ram being scrooge mcduck level of cheapness here :p ... if my reaction was just "screw it" and I left the situation as is.. four sticks of 8 GB ram for 32 GB ram total but at 2133 speed as opposed to the two sticks of 8 GB ram at 3200 speed for my daughter's desktop build with the amd ryzen 3, 3300x processor.. how much would you say I'm leaving on the table percentage wise for not clocking the ram speed up to 3200? (as far as AMD performance I mean). Again bear in mind this isn't an AMD CPU with integrated graphics I'm relying on a video/graphics card for that.
 

DSzymborski

Titan
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(mouth drops open then shrieks) " CUUUUUURRRRRSSSEEEEE YOU RAM STICK MANUFACTUERS!".. sorry for the outburst but .. is it just me or does anyone else thing this is a total rip off to the consumer? Grrrrrr... though again I could be speaking out of ignorance .. and DSzymborski thank you so much for telling me this I was definitely under the impression buying two sticks of ram exact same model from the exact same manufacturer would get me .. well, four identical sticks of ram like I would think most people (okay fine uneducated people like me who don't know as much about PC's as you guys do :) .. no sarcasm btw I really mean that ) would assume is the case.

It's not a scam, it's just the limitations of semiconductor fabrication. Transistors are now the size of only a dozen or two silicon atoms. CPUs work the same way; to oversimplify, all those Zen 3 processors basically started life as a 5950X. The ones that are 5900X or 5800X or 5700X or 5600X are just ones that weren't good enough to meet the specs of a 5950X (sometimes things are burned out intentionally in order to provide different market segmentation). It's not like making a Toyota at a car plant. The tolerances of a door being effective aren't on the atomic level. So you can make doors that will fit on all Toyota Camrys and make them functionally identical in parts. But you can't do that with RAM or CPUs or anything else of the type.
 

andrepartthree

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It's not a scam, it's just the limitations of semiconductor fabrication. Transistors are now the size of only a dozen or two silicon atoms. CPUs work the same way; to oversimplify, all those Zen 3 processors basically started life as a 5950X. The ones that are 5900X or 5800X or 5700X or 5600X are just ones that weren't good enough to meet the specs of a 5950X (sometimes things are burned out intentionally in order to provide different market segmentation). It's not like making a Toyota at a car plant. The tolerances of a door being effective aren't on the atomic level. So you can make doors that will fit on all Toyota Camrys and make them functionally identical in parts. But you can't do that with RAM or CPUs or anything else of the type.

Oh I see.. well that makes it sting a little bit less then :) ... thank you again DSzymborski :)
 
if my reaction was just "screw it" and I left the situation as is.. four sticks of 8 GB ram for 32 GB ram total but at 2133 speed as opposed to the two sticks of 8 GB ram at 3200 speed for my daughter's desktop build with the amd ryzen 3, 3300x processor..

If there is a legit need for 32 rather than 16, you are likely better off with 32 regardless of its speed. At least at the benchmark level.

Noticeably better off? Maybe not.

I have no idea if you have a "legit need" or if you just had upgrade-itis for whatever reason. Maybe you weren't trying to solve a problem.

It's entirely possible neither you nor your daughter would ever be able to detect whether the machine had 16 or 32 or any of the speed differences. It's conceivable you would depending on tasks but not typical.

The required power for a RAM stick is so low I'm not sure how the power supply issue became significant. Maybe I missed something in this thread.
 
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andrepartthree

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If there is a legit need for 32 rather than 16, you are likely better off with 32 regardless of its speed. At least at the benchmark level.

Noticeably better off? Maybe not.

I have no idea if you have a "legit need" or if you just had upgrade-itis for whatever reason. Maybe you weren't trying to solve a problem.

It's entirely possible neither you nor your daughter would ever be able to detect whether the machine had 16 or 32 or any of the speed differences. It's conceivable you would depending on tasks but not typical.

The required power for a RAM stick is so low I'm not sure how the power supply issue became significant. Maybe I missed something in this thread.

Thank you Lafong :) ... and that's another confirmation (sorry guys I know I shouldn't have even asked again in the first place was just so bitter about having to throw those year 2021 ram sticks out the window :( ) that the power supply is not the issue here which I'm guessing is the case even with the cheap piece of crap 600 watt power supply I currently have on my daughter's desktop PC...

Here's the crazy thing.. I asked my daughter if the PC felt faster to her in performance and her response was "yes" so given she has a lot of programs open all at the same time maybe that extra 16 GB of ram compared to what she had before helps even at the lower 2133 speed? It's strange that she said "yes" in comparison to the previous situation where it was "only" 16 GB ram but at a speed of 3200.

The bitter truth becomes clear here.. if I want 3200 ram speed on my daughter's desktop PC at the 32 GB ram level I have to eat the $88 loss on the year 2021 sticks of ram, return the second $50 set of ram sticks I thought were identical, and just replace the year 2021 sticks of ram with two 16 GB, 3200 speed sticks of ram.. man that sucks :( ..

At this point I'm thinking wait and see if ram prices fall even further for a set of two 16 GB, 3200 speed ram sticks so it's less painful having to give up the year 2021 purchase :) ..

Thanks again guys :)
 
Thank you Lafong :) ... and that's another confirmation (sorry guys I know I shouldn't have even asked again in the first place was just so bitter about having to throw those year 2021 ram sticks out the window :( ) that the power supply is not the issue here which I'm guessing is the case even with the cheap piece of crap 600 watt power supply I currently have on my daughter's desktop PC...

Here's the crazy thing.. I asked my daughter if the PC felt faster to her in performance and her response was "yes" so given she has a lot of programs open all at the same time maybe that extra 16 GB of ram compared to what she had before helps even at the lower 2133 speed? It's strange that she said "yes" in comparison to the previous situation where it was "only" 16 GB ram but at a speed of 3200.

The bitter truth becomes clear here.. if I want 3200 ram speed on my daughter's desktop PC at the 32 GB ram level I have to eat the $88 loss on the year 2021 sticks of ram, return the second $50 set of ram sticks I thought were identical, and just replace the year 2021 sticks of ram with two 16 GB, 3200 speed sticks of ram.. man that sucks :( ..

At this point I'm thinking wait and see if ram prices fall even further for a set of two 16 GB, 3200 speed ram sticks so it's less painful having to give up the year 2021 purchase :) ..

Thanks again guys :)

If she needs 32 because she has a lot of programs open, I'd expect the advantage of 3200 speed over 2666 to be much smaller than the advantage of moving from 16 gb to 32 gb. Amount again trumping speed.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if she couldn't tell the difference between 32 gb of 3200 and 32 gb of 2666.

BUT.......the placebo affect is astounding.
 
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andrepartthree

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Another update.. I tried setting the speed on the "problem desktop" (my daughter's PC with the four sticks of ram) down to 2800 speed ram in the BIOS.. and it works, boots into Windows and everything :) .. part of me is tempted to bump it up to 3200 speed but being the paranoid and ignorant type :) I'm thinking just leave well enough alone at this point and hoping 2800 versus 3200 speed won't make much of a difference as far as say the PC gaming she does.. which is Halo 3 from the Halo Master Chief Collection online multiplayer, Apex Legends multiplayer.. hopefully the PC will stand up to more demanding multiplayer online games in the years to come :) .. again thanks so much to everyone who spent their valuable time posting here to help me out I really really appreciate it :)
 

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Further update - in case this thread comes up in google searches (there has been many a time when a tom's hardware thread has come up during my google research and given me valuable information :) )

I had a heart stopping moment where my PC would not power on at all, and the led light up type thing on the motherboard was dead... turned the switch on the back of the power supply off then back on , unplugged and replugged the power cord and turned the PC on and breathed a sigh of relief as the PC powered up... I do know there are a variety of reasons why a PC might not power on but did some more internet research and if what I'm understanding is correct (who knows I could be wrong yet again :) ) bring ram speeds up to 3200 can sometimes result in an unstable PC such that it does not power on ... lowered the ram speed to 2800 much as I'd love to keep it at 3200, I'll try that for a while and see if the problem repeats itself
 
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First of all, there's no need to feel stupid or ashamed for asking questions and seeking knowledge. Everyone starts somewhere, and learning is a continuous process.
Regarding your question, you're correct that getting your RAM to run at its advertised speed of 3200MHz isn't technically overclocking. It's more like enabling the XMP (Extreme Memory Profile) in your BIOS settings to set the RAM to its intended speed and timings.
When you buy RAM, it usually comes with a default speed and timings. However, many RAM kits are designed to be capable of running at higher speeds with looser timings, which is where XMP comes in. XMP is an Intel-specific technology that's also compatible with many AMD systems. It's a simple way to automatically configure your RAM for higher speeds and looser timings.
To enable XMP and get your RAM running at 3200MHz, you need to go into your BIOS settings and find the XMP profile. Depending on your motherboard, it might be called something different, like A-XMP or DOCP. Once you've found it, simply enable it and save your settings.
It's worth noting that not all RAM kits are guaranteed to run at their advertised speed, and some may require additional tweaking to get stable at higher speeds. But with a little bit of trial and error, you should be able to get your RAM running at 3200MHz without any issues.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask if you have any further questions!
 

andrepartthree

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First of all, there's no need to feel stupid or ashamed for asking questions and seeking knowledge. Everyone starts somewhere, and learning is a continuous process.
Regarding your question, you're correct that getting your RAM to run at its advertised speed of 3200MHz isn't technically overclocking. It's more like enabling the XMP (Extreme Memory Profile) in your BIOS settings to set the RAM to its intended speed and timings.
When you buy RAM, it usually comes with a default speed and timings. However, many RAM kits are designed to be capable of running at higher speeds with looser timings, which is where XMP comes in. XMP is an Intel-specific technology that's also compatible with many AMD systems. It's a simple way to automatically configure your RAM for higher speeds and looser timings.
To enable XMP and get your RAM running at 3200MHz, you need to go into your BIOS settings and find the XMP profile. Depending on your motherboard, it might be called something different, like A-XMP or DOCP. Once you've found it, simply enable it and save your settings.
It's worth noting that not all RAM kits are guaranteed to run at their advertised speed, and some may require additional tweaking to get stable at higher speeds. But with a little bit of trial and error, you should be able to get your RAM running at 3200MHz without any issues.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask if you have any further questions!

Thank you newenergy I really appreciate that :)
 
...
I had a heart stopping moment where my PC would not power on at all, and the led light up type thing on the motherboard was dead
...
This can frequently happen when optimizing overclocks....especially memory overclocks. My suggestion is to become familiar with your RESET CMOS procedure. Look it up in your manual but usually there are two pins to short together on the motherboard, sometimes it's just remove the CMOS battery for several minutes. Just be sure to turn power off and disconnect it before doing it and it's perfectly safe.

What that does is return all settings to safe defaults that works with any compatible memory.
 
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andrepartthree

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This can frequently happen when optimizing overclocks....especially memory overclocks. My suggestion is to become familiar with your RESET CMOS procedure. Look it up in your manual but usually there are two pins to short together on the motherboard, sometimes it's just remove the CMOS battery for several minutes. Just be sure to turn power off and disconnect it before doing it and it's perfectly safe.

What that does is return all settings to safe defaults that works with any compatible memory.

thank you drea that's a huge help and very good to know :) .. I had a feeling it had to do with my recent changes to the RAM far as getting it up to 3200 speed... my MB actually does have a jumper on it apparently I would put say a metal screwdriver head in between the two pins to short it together to reset the CMOS .. my big concern though is if this would cause the MB to suddenly not "see" the CPU (amd ryzen 7, 5700x ) .. I know there's supposed to be a sticker somewhere on the MB in theory indicating what BIOS the MB shipped out with which in turn would determine if that BIOS supports the CPU (or I'm guessing this is the case anyways :) ) but can't seem to find that sticker on the MB for the life of me... given my bad experience before with MB's not supporting Amd ryzen CPU's I made sure to flash the MB to the latest bios (has the flash bios function you can run off a usb drive even before installing all the PC components into each other) before replacing the MB/CPU/RAM in my PC.
 
.. my big concern though is if this would cause the MB to suddenly not "see" the CPU (amd ryzen 7, 5700x ) ..
There is no problem with that. The BIOS has to first identify the CPU so it can then initialize it according to what it sees. It will only fail to "see" the CPU if the BIOS and CPU aren't compatible together, which is obviously not going to be the case if it worked before you made a memory setting that keeps it from booting up.

In other words: so long as the CPU is compatible with the BIOS revision it will always work following a full CMOS reset.
 
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andrepartthree

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There is no problem with that. The BIOS has to first identify the CPU so it can then initialize it according to what it sees. It will only fail to "see" the CPU if the BIOS and CPU aren't compatible together, which is obviously not going to be the case if it worked before you made a memory setting that keeps it from booting up.

In other words: so long as the CPU is compatible with the BIOS revision it will always work following a full CMOS reset.

thanks again so very much and for your quick reply too on top of that :) ... sorry to be so dumb :) but.. it sounds like even if I do a CMOS reset it doesn't "revert" the BIOS back to whatever the BIOS was the MB shipped with and it "keeps" the BIOS I flashed the MB to prior to installing the CPU?
 
thanks again so very much and for your quick reply too on top of that :) ... sorry to be so dumb :) but.. it sounds like even if I do a CMOS reset it doesn't "revert" the BIOS back to whatever the BIOS was the MB shipped with and it "keeps" the BIOS I flashed the MB to prior to installing the CPU?
It does not revert or change BIOS. Only the settings stored in CMOS memory which are used by the BIOS for initializing devices on the motherboard are changed to safe settings.
 
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Karadjgne

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Regarding your question, you're correct that getting your RAM to run at its advertised speed of 3200MHz isn't technically overclocking. It's more like enabling the XMP (Extreme Memory Profile) in your BIOS settings to set the RAM to its intended speed and timings.
Um, nope. The default speed of DDR4 is 2133MHz. The cpu has its own memory controller set speeds, which can be 2133MHz to 2666MHz. Any speeds within that range are not OC as they are factory default and assigned by the jadec tables. Anything over and above the MC speed IS technically OC as that's over and above factory settings.

XMP is Intel's eXtreme Memory Profile, it's a generic setting and jadec table for that particular ram. It's not the 'intended' speed, it's the binned highest guaranteed speed of the ram.

Setting XMP is nothing more than a pre-programmed shortcut instead of manually entering the OC values for voltages and timings.
 
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HI
Have you tried scaling up the 4 sticks of ram speed 1 step at a time with Memory Frequency in Ai Tweaker to see where it will boot and Not ?

Also on two of my Asus mobo's runing 2x16 3600 cl16 I still have to set the Memory frequency to match or it runs at the defualt speed of 2133, Just setting DOCP doesn't automaticly set the ram frequency if it is left in auto.
The mobo's are Asus X470 Rog Crosshair Hero 7 and a Asus Rog Strix x470 F Gaming.
Keep Us Posted
Have A Graet Weekend Everyone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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HI
Have you tried scaling up the 4 sticks of ram speed 1 step at a time with Memory Frequency in Ai Tweaker to see where it will boot and Not ?

Also on two of my Asus mobo's runing 2x16 3600 cl16 I still have to set the Memory frequency to match or it runs at the defualt speed of 2133, Just setting DOCP doesn't automaticly set the ram frequency if it is left in auto.
The mobo's are Asus X470 Rog Crosshair Hero 7 and a Asus Rog Strix x470 F Gaming.
Keep Us Posted
Have A Graet Weekend Everyone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Cross thanks so much for the suggestion :) .. well I guess I could try running it from the 2800 speed it's at right now to 3000 then from there bump it up to 3200 and see if it cooperates.. but honestly given everything I've heard about how bumping up ram speeds can result in a temperamental PC that may or may not even power on (as I found out with the aforementioned heart attack above :p ) I'm honestly okay with just leaving the speeds at 2800 ... would I like to get the 3200 speed ram that I paid for ? :) Definitely would but I see 2800 as better than the default 2133 and on all 3 desktop PC's with the asus MB's task manager indicates the ram is cooperating and running at 2800 speed.. so cowardice on my end I guess :) .. I've been told there isn't a huge difference between 2800 and 3200 speed in terms of impact on the PC's so out of cowardice leaving it at 2800 speed ...

I guess I got lucky as far as not having to manually set things (other than selecting the speed in BIOS I tell the PC to go at , 2800 speed or what not) DOCP has been handling it for me.. I have had people tell me to try adjusting the setting manually but again cowardice I find it to be a scary prospect :) ...