Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

[Darkbreeze]

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies then somebody here likely can offer some insights or look into it.

To be clear, this is NOT a Tier list, does not include EVERY model out there that might be a good unit (And there are definitely some other units out there worth using which are not mentioned here, but probably most of them are either niche models, very limited regionally or older platforms) and should not be considered as any sort of be all, end all reference. These are models that I know are good, and you won't go wrong by purchasing one of them. You can use your own judgement, along with taking the time to read actual reviews, in order to determine which are better than others or which are "good enough" for your usage.

If you are looking for CAPACITY recommendations, I advise you to avoid "calculators" and stick to the recommendations at the following link:

PSU capacity recommendations by card model

If overclocking the graphics card or CPU is on the menu, it would be advisable to ADD about 100w to the recommendations found at the above link, for the purpose of padding things a bit for safety, noise and cooling considerations.



If instead you are looking for model recommendations, then below are my (somewhat) short list of recommended ATX power supply models


Let's start with a couple of the biggest PSU misconceptions out there.



First, that if a power supply has a lot of watts, then that is all that really matters. Nope. That's wrong. Dangerously wrong in fact.

It's also very much untrue to try and say that if a unit carries a certain brand name then it has to be good. Again, wrong.

There are plenty of power supplies out there that I wouldn't trust to power a string of LED lights, including some "high capacity" 750w or higher models and might in fact be a much worse choice than a unit with a significantly lower listed capacity.



If the platform isn't good to begin with, how many watts or amps it says it can support is irrelevant.
​

Higher 80plus certification doesn't mean anything, UNLESS it is a PSU platform that we already know is good anyhow. For example, a Seasonic Prime platinum unit is going to be a better product than a Seasonic Prime Gold unit, because we already know the Prime platform is very good, and platinum efficiency along with it shows there are some improvements internally to account for the higher efficiency.

In a case like that, it might be worth it. It's likely the unit will create less heat, it will probably have better performance in regard to ripple, noise and voltage regulation. It might shave a few pennies, or dollars, off the electric bill over the course of a year.

Other than that, it is not going to perform any better than the same platform with Gold efficiency. On the other hand, just because a unit has Titanium 80plus ratings doesn't mean the unit is any good at all. For example, there are Raidmax units with Titanium efficiency and I wouldn't trust one of those to power a light bulb. There are a lot of units like this out there.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, whether or not it has an 80plus certification is irrelevant.​

Whatever you do, don't EVER buy a power supply based on whether it has RGB or lighting, or simply because it looks like it might be a quality unit. Some of the biggest hunks of junk out there look just as good as a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium, but I assure you, they are not. So far there are very few very good units out there that have RGB built in. Maybe one or two models, but rest assured you'll be be paying for the lighting, not for the quality of the power supply.

I don't know what country you reside in, and I know that sometimes it's hard to come by good units in some regions, but when possible, when it comes time to get that PSU, I'd stick to the following if you can. Before getting into the specifics, as a VERY general guide towards "I want something really good", I'll say that the Seasonic Prime, Corsair HX and Super Flower Leadex III platforms, and units based on them, should be among the top five on anybody's list of the best platforms currently and commonly available to choose from. If they are not, I'd be extremely skeptical of that list or the recommendations coming from that source.

Seasonic

Seasonic isn't just a brand, they are a PSU manufacturer, unlike many of the PSU brands you see they make their own power supply platforms AND a great many of the very good PSU models out there from other brands like Antec, Corsair and older XFX are made by Seasonic.
​

Most of what Seasonic makes and sells is generally either good or excellent quality, but there are a few potential exceptions or models that have caveats. There are a few somewhat "unknowns" that haven't been professionally reviewed but overall they are MOSTLY trustworthy, although they've recently had a few units that are riding that gray edge between known good and questionable. They do make a few less-good quality OEM style units, but mostly those are not going to be units you come across at most vendors, and they are still not bad. Also, the S12II and M12II 520 and 620w units are older, group regulated models. At one time they were among the best units you could buy. Now, they are outdated and not as good as almost any other Seasonic models. They are however still better than a LOT of newer designs by other manufacturers.

THAT being said, there ARE some units being sold with the Seasonic label that are NOT built by Seasonic.

They use Seasonic designed platforms but are built by RSY. For now I believe these are limited to the S12III models, and they should be COMPLETELY avoided, because they are not good quality and in my opinion should not be allowed to carry the Seasonic name, but instead should have been relegated to the Hydrance or Energy power enterprise products which I understand are Seasonic subsidiaries that do not carry the Seasonic brand name. They are not good units based on reviews so far and should be avoided. If that changes based on new information then I will happily remove this paragraph but until then, stay away from them if you are expecting something that is "typical" of Seasonic. These S12III models, are not.​

The Seasonic 520w and 620w S12II/M12II units CAN be used on newer Intel platforms, if you turn off C6/C7 in the bios, but I'd really recommend a newer platform whenever possible. Prices are usually pretty good on those though, so sometimes it's worth accepting the lack of DC-DC on the internal platform. Higher capacity versions of the High current gamer are not based on that platform, so they are fine. Those being the 750w and higher versions.

Most common currently, in order of preference, would be the Seasonic Focus series, then Focus plus, then Prime, then Prime ultra. The newer Core series units are positioned as Core GC, Core GM and Core GX in order of heirarchy. It's worth mentioning that there are generally Gold, Platinum and Titanium versions within each, or most, of those series, but that does not necessarily mean that a Focus plus Platinum is necessarily better than a Prime Gold. It only means that it scored better in the 80plus efficiency testing, not that the platform is better. Seasonic specifically states that the Core series is their "builder" level unit now, to be considered below the Focus and Focus plus units but above the S12II and S12III models. So, much better than garbage but probably not what most users are looking for when trying to source a typical Seasonic offering.

Again, don't let yourself get tangled up in the idea that a higher 80plus rating specifically means that it is a better unit than another one with a lower rating, unless you know that it is a good platform from the start. All these Focus and Prime units are pretty good so you can somewhat focus on the 80plus rating when deciding which of them to choose.

Super Flower

Super Flower is another PSU manufacturer. They are like Seasonic and they make power supplies for a variety of other companies, like EVGA. Super Flower units are usually pretty good. I'd stick to the Leadex, Leadex II, Leadex III and Golden Green models, OR units sold by other brands USING those platforms because they also make most of the good units sold by EVGA like the G2, G3, P2 and T2 models.​

Super Flower doesn't have a very broad availability for the units with their own brand name on them (But HAVE recently begun expanding and offering some products in the USA and other regions outside their normal market regions. I believe this is probably due to the breaking of the relationship between them and EVGA, who it seems has mostly moved on to lower tiered, less reliable OEMs for their current product lines and models), and are not available in a lot of countries but for those where there is availability you want to look at the Leadex, Leadex II and Leadex III models. The Golden green platform is fairly decent too but is getting rather long in the tooth as a platform AND I've seen some reviews indicating a few shortcomings on units based on this platform. It is a good budget platform still, but is not on par with the various Leadex platforms.

Even so, it's a great deal better than a lot of other platforms out there so you could certainly do worse than a Golden green model.

Corsair​

The orange and black label VS models and the green and black label CX models should be avoided. Completely. Currently we just cannot justify using one of these units. The track record is terrible and if you have one, especially if it is more than a year old, it is probably either already failing or if you are having problems, is likely the reason why. If you don't already have one, avoid them.

The black and gray label VS series units are much better than the older orange and black label VS models, but they are still units you really only want to use with basic use office or internet browsing machines, or in a pinch, maybe a machine with a lower TDP slot powered card. Also, they are not a modern design, having an older group regulated platform which you can find plenty of in depth information about if you do a search for "group regulated power supplies". These are better than any of the units down below in the wall of shame list, and better than the older VS and CX units, but don't assume you that you can simply pair a graphics card that has a 550w recommendation with a 550w VS unit and not have any problems, because in all probability, you will. These units are not meant for use with high demand gaming systems. In a PINCH, for VERY short term use, they will work, but they are not going to last under the rigors of daily gaming loads.

The CXm units are fair. They are "ok" for the price and if the price is right you could do worse. The non-green label "2017" CX models are slightly better than the CXm units. For a budget entry level unit, they are fairly decent. They are not great or fantastic, but they ARE ok, if this is ALL you can possibly afford. Don't buy one of these expecting it to last as long as an RMx or EVGA G2 unit though. It's not going to. It's a good entry level offering and that is all.

The Vengeance models are a small step up from the 2017 CX units. The recently released CX-F models are on par with the Vengeance models.

Aside from that, any of the TX, RM, RMx, RMi, HX, HXi, AX or AXi units are good. Generally speaking, the HX, HXi, AX and AXi models are among some of the best power supplies you can get in the world, at any price, and should be seriously considered by anybody looking for a very high quality power supply.

Antec​

The True power classic units are made by Seasonic, and are very good, but are not modular. The High current gamer 520w and 620w, or any other PSU you see on the market that is 520w or 620w, are also made by Seasonic, based on the S12II and M12II platform for modern versions, and are pretty good units but again they are an older platform that is group regulated so if you go with a Haswell or newer Intel configuration you will want to avoid those because they do not support the C6/C7 Intel low power states. Once again, I'll use the phrase "In a pinch", because there are certainly situations where those Antec and Seasonic 520w/620w units might be the best of what is available to your and if they are, you could do much worse, but they should not be among anybody's list of top models to choose from if there are other models available that have reviewed well and are based on newer and more advanced internal platform designs.

The Antec High current gamer 750w and 850w units are very good and are specifically not the group regulated Seasonic platform, which came in 520w and 620w capacities There are however older and newer HCG models, so exact model number will likely be a factor if choosing one of these however both the older models and the newer models are good.

Antec Edge units are ok too, but reviews indicate that they have noisy fan profiles. I'd only choose this model if it is on sale or the aesthetics match up with your color scheme or design. Still a good power supply but maybe a little aggressive on the fan profile. This may have been cured on newer Edge models so reading professional tear down reviews is still the best idea. Probably these are not available anymore for most markets.

Antec Earthwatts Gold Pro units are very good also and are based on the Seasonic Focus platform.

Be Quiet!​

BeQuiet! does have a few decent models, BUT, you must be VERY selective about which of their models you put your trust in. From model to model their are huge differences in both quality and performance, even with the same series. If you cannot find a review for a BeQuiet unit on HardOCP, JonnyGuru or Tom's hardware that SPECIFICALLY says it is a very good unit, and does not have any significant issues in the "cons" category, I would avoid it. In fact, I'd probably avoid it anyhow unless there is a very great sale on one that has good reviews, because their units are generally more expensive than MUCH better units from Antec, Seasonic, EVGA and Corsair.

Certainly there may be cases where sales or regional availability makes a specific Be Quiet! model that has shown itself to be good in reviews might be a good purchasing option but be very sure to do your due dilligence first, because usually this is not the case and there is usually something good from another manufacturer like Seasonic, EVGA, Super Flower, Corsair or Antec in most regions where Be Quiet products are sold that can be had for less.

EVGA
​

They have BOTH good and not very good models and most of their products that can be recommended are those based on various Super Flower platforms Do NOT simply choose a power supply because it carries the EVGA name, because while they certainly have some excellent models, they have some absolute turds as well and I mean models well known for failure practically every time they are put into a gaming or other system with moderately demanding requirements.

Not very good are the W1, N1, B1, B3 (Most B3 models failed Aris Mpitziopoulos stringent testing), BQ, BR, BT and G1 NEX models. EVGA seems to like releasing a new model every other week so there are possibly other unlisted models that you'd do well to avoid beyond these. When in doubt, if you can't find a review on an EVGA unit, it's probably because it is either too new, or it's quality is seriously lacking.

Good models are the B2, GQ, G2, G2L, G3, P2 and T2 models. Seems that the EVGA G5 series might be best avoided. The OEM is FSP on the one reliable review so far which was for the 1000w model, and while likely not strictly FSP's fault, the unit did not look like a worthy successor to the G2 or even the G3, which itself was not as good as the G2 but still better than most units out there. There are other, better choices than the G5 at this price point including their own G2 models, which, are getting hard to find. I think even the GQ units would be a better choice.

FSP (FSP Group/Fortron source power)​

FSP is a PSU manufacturer like Seasonic and Super Flower, although not as well trusted based on historical performance. They have some seriously poor quality trash models, series and platforms, but also some very good stuff as well. Much as with Be Quiet!, you must be VERY careful which series or even which models within a specific series in some cases, that you consider. Unless you can find a review of a specific model, I'd avoid it. Currently the FSP Hydro G and Hydro X units are pretty good.

Pretty much universally, the FSP Hyper models should be avoided as they are low quality garbage.

Rosewill​

Rosewill is the Newegg house brand, but is also available through other sources. There are three Rosewill lines from among they many lines they sell, which in some circumstances might be good options. The Rosewill Tachyon, Quark and Capstone M series are pretty good options especially if there are no other options available that have been recommended here. The rest of the Rosewill power supply products are generally either very "meh" or are outright poor quality.

In MY opinion, Cooler Master and Thermaltake should be completely avoided

They do have a few good units, like some of the Thermaltake Toughpower series models, but most of the models sold by both these companies are either REALLY poor or barely mediocre, and the ones they have that ARE good are usually way overpriced. The Thermaltake TR2 and Litepower series, even the newer revisions, should probably just be avoided altogether, along with the Smart series units, which are simply not good choices for use with gaming systems. If you want to use a Smart series unit with your internet browsing machine or some kind of low powered office box, it's probably ok. Although I'd recommend avoiding them, the Smart series units might be the best available units in some regions. That should not be mistaken for the idea that they are quality units though.

This is just ONE example of why I say that. Very new and modern CM unit. One of the worst scores ever seen on JonnyGuru for a well known brand name product. It should be a complete embarrasment for the company, but unfortunately this is not the first time we've seen a really bad power supply come from either of these two companies. Sad.

Cooler Master Masterwatt Lite 600W review

​

The Powerspec units sold by Microcenter are a mixed bag. Some of them are fairly decent using the same platform as the Sirfa High power Astro lite platform, so not total dumpster fire type units, but not particularly good either, and some of their units are simply garbage and should be listed below in the DO NOT USE category, but I'm leaving them out because there are really no reviews of them and since there are a few units from them that are ok-ish, I'm giving them a "use at your own discretion but buy a better model if you can" grade.

Even a gray label Corsair VS unit would probably be an upgrade from one of those Powerspec models, and a CXm or 2017 CX would, almost certainly would, without any doubt.

Certainly there ARE some good units out there that you won't see above among those I've listed, but they are few and far between, much as a hidden nugget of gold you find in a crevice among otherwise ordinary rocks and don't EVER assume a unit is good just because of the brand.

If you cannot find an IN DEPTH, REPUTABLE review on Tom's hardware, JonnyGuru, HardOCP, Hardware secrets (Old reviews by Gabe Torres), Kitguru (Only Aris reviews), TechPowerUP, SilentPC crew or a similar site that does much more than simply a review of the unboxing and basic tests that don't include reliable results for ripple, noise, voltage regulation and a complete teardown of the unit including identification of the internal platform, then the unit is a big fat question mark. It is best to avoid question marks when it comes to your hard earned dollars, whenever possible.

I recommend not trusting such units as companies generally always send out review samples of any unit they feel is going to get a good review, and don't send them out if they know they are going to get hammered by the reviewer. No review usually equals poor quality. Usually.

Brands that in general should never be trusted at all except when a positive reliable review for a SPECIFIC MODEL from that brand exists.

One or two of these brands listed below MIGHT have a single model or two that are cut from a completely different mold than what that brand is known for (Or manufacture anything from mediocre to decent quality units under other brand names but not their own. One example would be HEC that makes some decent models under the Cougar label and a few rather borderline ones in the past for EVGA, but their own HEC/Compucase Orion units have historically been terrible.), but overall, if they are listed below they are primarily known for selling just plain junk and in many cases, very dangerous junk that lacks adequate protections or cannot even manage to sustain a fraction of whatever rated capacity their products might indicate on the specifications as far as units sold under their OWN name. I have yet to see any that were of recommendable quality or in many cases even safe for use.

A-Top, AK Power, Akyga, Alpine, Apevia, Apex (Supercase/Allied), Aresgame, Artic, Ace, Aerocool (There might be one model worth using, but I'd still avoid them.), Aspire (Turbocase), Atadc, Atrix, Broadway com corp, Chieftech (Mostly older models. Newer models may be fine or even good. Look to specific model reviews for this brand), Circle, CIT, Coolmax, Deer, Diablotek, Digital Alliance, Dynapower, Dynex, Eagletech, Enlight, Eurotech, Evo labs, EZ cool, Feedtek, Foxconn, Futureman, G7, GameMax, HEC (Compucase Orion), HEDY, High power, iBall, iStar computer co., Jeantec, JPac, Jual, Just PC, Kentek, Kolink (Most models. They do have one or two that are ok as budget units in a pinch), LC Power, Linkworld electronics, Logisys, Macron, MSI, Njoy, NmediaPC, Norwood Micro (CompUSA), Okia, Powercool, Powerlogic, Powmax, Pulsepower, Q-tec, Quantex, Raidmax, Rave, Rocketfish, Segotep, SFC, Sharkoon, Shuttle, Skyhawk, Spire, Startech, Storm, Sumvision, Tesla, Trust, Ultra, Wintech, Winpower, Xilence (Until I see a reputable review of a model showing different), xTreme (Cyberpower), Youngbear and Zebronics.​

 

[WildCard999]

Spoiler

EVGA G3 Reviews (Note: difference sources).
550W: https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/EVGA-SuperNOVA-550W-G3-Power-Supply-Review
750W: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=500
850W: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-supernova-850-g3-psu,4930.html

 

[Darkbreeze]

Edit (September 23, 2019)

For any who care, I have decided to move away from the list of reviews on this thread and instead focus only on models that are both currently being sold in most markets AND are units we know that nobody is going to go wrong with, whether they are on somebody's Tier 1 or Tier 3, or have no more tears. Ahhhhhh.

Anyhow, those of you who know who you are, if there are specific units that you think should be listed there, which fall under the "you can't go wrong with one of these" that I don't have listed there, please feel free to recommend that I add it to the list or make a note of it there for reference. Thanks.

Anybody who wishes to, feel free to link to that first page if you want. Or even link to it with a note saying look what this idiot did. I couldn't really care less either way. Hopefully it helps somebody and also I'm sure there are plenty of folks here who'd prefer to see just links to that instead of spoilers on every PSU thread I post in. You're welcome.

Edit: Since the format here changed and I no longer link reviews in the OP, I am removing all posts pertaining specifically to the OP being built around specific reviews in this first couple of pages before the change to a recommendations and exclusions type listing. I am leaving this post up however because the information is relevant to that OTHER list AND is relevant in general, when trying to find information about specific power supply models.

 

[Darkbreeze]

It would be interesting to get some reviews on some “budget” PSUs from India as what’s available makes it difficult to make a recommendation and usually what’s there is the Corsair VS series which isn’t exactly good but can do the job with a higher wattage PSU.

The problem with this, as it has always been, is that there usually are NOT any reviews of them to link to. At least, not reputable ones. If there is a review you want linked and it meets the criteria, post it, and I'll put it up unless it's not a reputable review or is not in english. The problem with non-English reviews is that while you or I know how to only pull the info we need from those reviews, most people WON'T know how to do that as they are not familiar with the majority of PSU terminology plus when many won't know how to get it translated in the first place.

Others will simply disregard it within seconds once they see the reviews end up with a lot of garbled or nonsensical sentences after translation. That doesn't really help anybody to be honest. I'm not doing that for specifically that reason. This is a perfect example of why.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12284

There's a place for them, it just isn't here. Again, linking to them here in your post is fine, just not going to add them to the list of reviews. Too much lost in translation, and no, not the movie.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Isn't it easy enough to just Google "<INSERT PSU NAME> review" and then just get the result?

Isn't that true for EVERY single thing that people come here looking for?

It's ALL been seen, done and dealt with at some point. There are threads covering every possible thing anybody could ever have or ever will have go wrong with their hardware. Unless somebody is strictly looking for an OPINION, there is no point posting a new thread on any subject, on this or any other forum, if we took that tact. So yes, they CAN find those reviews by Googling them. But they could also solve all the other issues they come here for by Googling it as well, if they weren't mostly all too lazy to put in the work. I guess that's the point.

But you're right, everything anybody can think of to make things easier for people is just a big waste of time. We should all just kill ourselves and be done with it. I mean, it's not like anybody is going to do anything new or meaningful anyhow right? We'll just let Google have the planet since there's no need for us anymore.


PS, most of the people who will find this useful are people who wouldn't know WHAT to google in the first place. Hence, lists like this give them a good place to start LOOKING at specific models, based on the fact that somebody thought they were good enough to warrant review in the first place.

 

[goldstone77]

Well, the process nodes are shrinking offering lower power and higher performance as well. Realistically, how much longer will PSU last in their current state? Technology would have to make a big change from the path(shrinking) that it has followed for half a century now.

My point exactly. CPUs and GPUs are both using less and less power, even when overclocked, so aside from miners using many cards (And even then many of them are preferring to use multiple power supplies rather than one large one) I can only see the demand for big power bricks dropping further and further each year.

The other good thing about this thread is we can discuss things of this nature about power supplies without being off topic!

 

[goldstone77]

Isn't it easy enough to just Google "<INSERT PSU NAME> review" and then just get the result?

Yes but this is different. Nobody comes to this site asking "where can I find a review on this power supply?" They are asking what power supply to buy. Plus most (like most most) people don't read or care about PSU reviews anyway, and those who actually do should know how to find them.

Then let them? I personally don't care if you make this list, but I'm just trying to save you and others from spending a lot of unnecessary time. It just seems like picking up the slack from people who don't want to google.

Ironically, I can find a PSU review quicker with Google than by coming to this webpage.

Those would be people who don't read PSU reviews in the first place, so they wouldn't even want to Google anything let alone click on any of these reviews. If someone is someone who looks at PSU reviews, they should know how to find them. There's no way people don't know how to search for a review of something when you simply search for a review of something. Don't underestimate people, it's not a lack of ability it's a lack of willingness.

This is a general response to how I feel about all your responses.
1. Looking your responses, I think you need to think of this thread like a library.
2. You can browse around, learn things about different PSUs, and have a quick reference that bring people back to this site. Since it requires very little effort to create the list, just willingness to put forth effort, why not make it?
3. You can have a discussion on PSUs with a thread that won't disappear overtime.
4. You won't be off topic when discussing PSU's in the tier list thread.
5. Judging by the response by some people to the thread already I would say at least some people like this idea. I do.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I apologize to everybody, the way I presented my view could have been written in a less condescending matter. Come on the Tomshardware Discord, I am 95% goof there, believe me, I spend most of my time there rather than the main forums. I didn't see value in the list but you guys do. I totally accept that disagreement there, and that's fine. Plus, it can't do any harm anyway. Just want to make sure you guys thought this through and really want to go through with this list.

Keep in mind that whenever I talk to any of you the content of my words in no way describes my feelings toward you as a person. You probably know me as someone who is not afraid to raise a hand of objection. Please understand that any form of controversy is the greatest teacher of all, as it initiates dialogue. And the dialogue on this site is usually very friendly, and when I speak I hope not to be nasty and I hope that my objections to certain things do not paint me in a negative light as a person.

 

[goldstone77]

I apologize to everybody, the way I presented my view could have been written in a less condescending matter. Come on the Tomshardware Discord, I am 95% goof there, believe me, I spend most of my time there rather than the main forums. I didn't see value in the list but you guys do. I totally accept that disagreement there, and that's fine. Plus, it can't do any harm anyway. Just want to make sure you guys thought this through and really want to go through with this list.

Keep in mind that whenever I talk to any of you the content of my words in no way describes my feelings toward you as a person. You probably know me as someone who is not afraid to raise a hand of objection. Please understand that any form of controversy is the greatest teacher of all, as it initiates dialogue. And the dialogue on this site is usually very friendly, and when I speak I hope not to be nasty and I hope that my objections to certain things do not paint me in a negative light as a person.

Out of all the forum threads the PSU tier list thread has probably the most rigid characters hanging out in there from what I've seen from all the threads I visit. I'm sure it comes from a high level of confidence, technical skill, and years of experience, but it is what it is-a rough stone. I think you are far from the worst one I've experienced in tier chat, and I found you often offer informative comments like all of them. Others tend to be more brash, and maybe it's started to rub off on you somewhat. I would just be mindful of that would be my recommendation. It's hard for me to perceive someone as a bad person who markedly spends his time helping others. No harm no foul here with me.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Got a PSU question too:
Is there any difference other than efficiency between Seasonic SSR-650FX and Seasonic SSR-650PX?

Currently thinking which one to go for, either: SSR-650FX, SSR-650PX or even SSR-650TR.

They're all the same platform, as Seasonic ditched it's original Prime Titanium platform for the "ultra" version in favor of using the Focus +'s platform. Which, I happen to wonder why they did that. Perhaps the Focus+ are actually more reliable than those original prime units? Or maybe cost cuts, who knows.

My rule of thumb would just be to get the Gold and save the money.

 

[jankerson]

We already have a PSU review database and i don't see much point why to make a 2nd one here.
Link to the said database: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

Got a PSU question too:
Is there any difference other than efficiency between Seasonic SSR-650FX and Seasonic SSR-650PX?

Currently thinking which one to go for, either: SSR-650FX, SSR-650PX or even SSR-650TR.

The SSR650PX has upgrade parts to make it Platinum rated, other than that the features are the same as is the warranty.

Now the Prime Titanium is a completely different model, their top end Model and currently one of if not the the best 650W PSU you can buy.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

We already have a PSU review database and i don't see much point why to make a 2nd one here.
Link to the said database: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

Got a PSU question too:
Is there any difference other than efficiency between Seasonic SSR-650FX and Seasonic SSR-650PX?

Currently thinking which one to go for, either: SSR-650FX, SSR-650PX or even SSR-650TR.

Yes, though sometimes people don't understand the relevancy of the conclusion, as they change throughout reviewers, and throughout time. A good example of this is the JonnyGuru review of the Seasonic S12ii. That review conclusion leaves everyone believing this is such a great PSU, even today, yet reality is this unit is nearly mediocre for today's standards.

I got S12II-520 powering my AMD build and it's a solid unit, even at today's standards, despite it's old design. If you want a mediocre unit, look towards Corsair CXm series.

We already have a PSU review database and i don't see much point why to make a 2nd one here.
Link to the said database: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

Got a PSU question too:
Is there any difference other than efficiency between Seasonic SSR-650FX and Seasonic SSR-650PX?

Currently thinking which one to go for, either: SSR-650FX, SSR-650PX or even SSR-650TR.

The SSR650PX has upgrade parts to make it Platinum rated, other than that the features are the same as is the warranty.

Now the Prime Titanium is a completely different model, their top end Model and currently one of if not the the best 650W PSU you can buy.

Maybe I was wrong about the Prime Titanium Ultra being the same platform. I thought I had heard that recently and now it's bugging me I can't find it.

 

[jankerson]

We already have a PSU review database and i don't see much point why to make a 2nd one here.
Link to the said database: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

Got a PSU question too:
Is there any difference other than efficiency between Seasonic SSR-650FX and Seasonic SSR-650PX?

Currently thinking which one to go for, either: SSR-650FX, SSR-650PX or even SSR-650TR.

Yes, though sometimes people don't understand the relevancy of the conclusion, as they change throughout reviewers, and throughout time. A good example of this is the JonnyGuru review of the Seasonic S12ii. That review conclusion leaves everyone believing this is such a great PSU, even today, yet reality is this unit is nearly mediocre for today's standards.

I got S12II-520 powering my AMD build and it's a solid unit, even at today's standards, despite it's old design. If you want a mediocre unit, look towards Corsair CXm series.

We already have a PSU review database and i don't see much point why to make a 2nd one here.
Link to the said database: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

Got a PSU question too:
Is there any difference other than efficiency between Seasonic SSR-650FX and Seasonic SSR-650PX?

Currently thinking which one to go for, either: SSR-650FX, SSR-650PX or even SSR-650TR.

The SSR650PX has upgrade parts to make it Platinum rated, other than that the features are the same as is the warranty.

Now the Prime Titanium is a completely different model, their top end Model and currently one of if not the the best 650W PSU you can buy.

Maybe I was wrong about the Prime Titanium Ultra being the same platform. I thought I had heard that recently and now it's bugging me I can't find it.

The Prime Titanium and Prime Titanium Ultra are the same, the main difference is the few extras they put in the box, a tester and the new SATA adaptor.

Now the Prime Gold 550W is Focus based with upgrades to meet Prime Standards. From 650W and up are Prime Platform.

 

[Rexper]

I got S12II-520 powering my AMD build and it's a solid unit, even at today's standards, despite it's old design. If you want a mediocre unit, look towards Corsair CXm series.

The new CXm and CX (2015 and 2017 models) are better than the S12ii series. Newer DC-DC platform so tighter voltages in crossload tests, and compatible with haswell sleep states, better performance overall, and includes necessary protections which the S12ii lacks in.

Also, for your other question,

The Seasonic 650FX has an average efficiency of 88.159%. The 650PX has average of 90.168%. The 650TR has an average of 92.425%.
https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=database&manfID=12&volts=1

Which unit being more cost efficient depends on the price of them, electricity costs, power consumption of your system, and how long your sytem is being used (either on idle, full load, gaming load etc.)

 

[Darkbreeze]

I feel like this review list will just end up being like any other review lists (like realhardtechx, or techpowerup's), a source that the average consumer likely won't be able to digest. My suggestion is commenting next to the review/unit, to sum up the cons and pros, so people who don't understand much about power supplies don't have to research it for hours before reading all the reviews.

That's exactly what a tier list does, takes OUT the need to DECIDE for yourself, based on the reviews, if a unit is any good or not. But obviously there is a whole bunch of people who think THAT idea sucks too. Thing is, no matter what ANYBODY comes up with, or does, in any walk of life, there's going to be a group of people who think it sucks and are vocal about it.

So, the tier list sucks, this list sucks, people suck because they can't go find and comprehend the information themselves, we suck because we can't create something that makes EVERYBODY happy and best of all, none of it really matters anyhow because as I was informed in the PSU tier list, even a tier 5 type unit that can barely sustain 150-250w is more than enough for any system since it's never going to burn up or damage anybodys hardware anyhow.

I mean, clearly we can just all run overclocked 10-20 core chips with overclocked flagship graphics cards, with no problems at all, on a crappy HEC built TR2 power supply, so what's the point. Somebody needs to tell Oklahoma wolf and Aris to stop it with the reviews too. Those are no longer necessary either.

And no Turkey, THIS particular rant was not pointed your direction. Sorry if I was a bit over the top with you earlier. I'm sick and I guess grumpy as hell too, so I'm on short supply with patience for negative vibes and condescension right now I guess.

 

[Aeacus]

They're all the same platform, as Seasonic ditched it's original Prime Titanium platform for the "ultra" version in favor of using the Focus +'s platform. Which, I happen to wonder why they did that. Perhaps the Focus+ are actually more reliable than those original prime units? Or maybe cost cuts, who knows.

My rule of thumb would just be to get the Gold and save the money.

I'm not looking to save money, instead, i'm looking great performance.

As far as Seasonic PRIME vs Seasonic PRIME Ultra goes, i contacted Seasonic about it and Seasonic rep answered this:

PRIME Ultra will introduce few updates for this Series:

* General optimization (capacitors for example)
* No more inline capacitor for PRIME Ultra 1000 Titanium and Platinum
and Gold. Previous models has some on PCI-E and motherboard cables for
example.
* New accessories: PSU tester and SATA adapter compatible with SATA
3.3 used by some HDD recently released on market. Some SATA cable(s)
will have connectors at 180° instead of 90°.
* Shorter case (140mm only) for 550W, 650W, 750W in PRIME Ultra
Platinum and Gold.

As far as why Seasonic released their PRIME Ultra series after 1.5 years from the release of PRIME series, that i don't know. Perhaps they felt the need to overhaul the PRIME series.

The SSR650PX has upgrade parts to make it Platinum rated, other than that the features are the same as is the warranty.

Now the Prime Titanium is a completely different model, their top end Model and currently one of if not the the best 650W PSU you can buy.

I already own SSR-650TD but the new SSR-650TR is appealing to me. Oh, i'm planning to get new PSU to replace the SS-850AM2 out.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

The Prime Titanium and Prime Titanium Ultra are the same, the main difference is the few extras they put in the box, a tester and the new SATA adaptor.

Now the Prime Gold 550W is Focus based with upgrades to meet Prime Standards. From 650W and up are Prime Platform.

That's what I was thinking. Thank you, I had a misunderstanding.

 

[Darkbreeze]

We already have a PSU review database and i don't see much point why to make a 2nd one here.
Link to the said database: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

I'm gonna be short and pointed (Ok, maybe not THAT short) on this one as well. If you like the one at realhardtechx so much, go hang out there. They have their content, Tom's hardware wants to start ELIMINATING the need for users to go to OTHER sites for content, so many are helping to create content here that is relevant, whether something similar exists elsewhere or not.

Aris quite OFTEN does reviews of models that have already been reviewed elsewhere, as do most of them, but you don't see any of them whining about how somebody else got to it first so they aren't going to bother with it. I like Realhardtechx, and use a variety of resources that can be found on their site. The links to PSU reviews isn't one of them, because they link to many reviews that are more like unboxing videos or simple overviews rather than actual in depth reviews, plus there are a lot of very poor quality units with review links there AND there are a LARGE number of linked reviews that no longer exists at their linked addresses which they don't feel the need to keep updated, so to me, it's not a particularly accurate or informative resource. Also, there are a LOT of reviews out there which are NOT listed there even though they should be. Too much of what it shouldn't be and not enough of what it should, in some regards. Which is unfortunate because much of their content is highly likable.

That's all fine, but we're not going to be having any units listed here that are not recommended for use. If it's listed here then you can assume it is at least a somewhat worthy unit, think Tier3 or higher, with mostly Tier 1 and 2 units. I'd like people to be able to find something among these recommendations, and then either go check out the review for themselves or simply know that if it was on here it's an ok unit to purchase. Nothing about "well it's got better this or that feature", if you want that, read the reviews, otherwise, yep, a quick check of what's in my price range versus what's on this list and in all probability anybody who does that won't end up with a crappy power supply, which really, is the endgame for any PSU related resource.

Of course ALL of this, and everything under the sun can be found somewhere else, but again, we'd like for people to not have to GO someplace else to find that information. That's the kind of thing that affects retention and helps you lose members. Why come here in the first place if you just have to go someplace else right from the very start. True, some of these reviews do that exact thing, but when possible, the Tom's hardware link will take preference over links going off site.

 

[jankerson]

They're all the same platform, as Seasonic ditched it's original Prime Titanium platform for the "ultra" version in favor of using the Focus +'s platform. Which, I happen to wonder why they did that. Perhaps the Focus+ are actually more reliable than those original prime units? Or maybe cost cuts, who knows.

My rule of thumb would just be to get the Gold and save the money.

I'm not looking to save money, instead, i'm looking great performance.

As far as Seasonic PRIME vs Seasonic PRIME Ultra goes, i contacted Seasonic about it and Seasonic rep answered this:

PRIME Ultra will introduce few updates for this Series:

* General optimization (capacitors for example)
* No more inline capacitor for PRIME Ultra 1000 Titanium and Platinum
and Gold. Previous models has some on PCI-E and motherboard cables for
example.
* New accessories: PSU tester and SATA adapter compatible with SATA
3.3 used by some HDD recently released on market. Some SATA cable(s)
will have connectors at 180° instead of 90°.
* Shorter case (140mm only) for 550W, 650W, 750W in PRIME Ultra
Platinum and Gold.

As far as why Seasonic released their PRIME Ultra series after 1.5 years from the release of PRIME series, that i don't know. Perhaps they felt the need to overhaul the PRIME series.

The SSR650PX has upgrade parts to make it Platinum rated, other than that the features are the same as is the warranty.

Now the Prime Titanium is a completely different model, their top end Model and currently one of if not the the best 650W PSU you can buy.

I already own SSR-650TD but the new SSR-650TR is appealing to me. Oh, i'm planning to get new PSU to replace the SS-850AM2 out.

Seasonic did some cleaning up of their product lines discontinuing certain product lines. The Platinum Series was one of them along with the G-Series and X-Series. Looks like the Focus (Semi Modular) is replacing the G-Series and the Prime Gold is replacing the X-Series. Looks like the Focus Plus Platinum is replacing the old Platinum Series.

Also looks like they are using the Focus Plus Gold and Platinum platform base in some of the Prime Ultra Gold and Platinum Series with upgrades to bring them up to Prime standards.

As far as the Prime Titanium goes, JG tested both the TR and TD 650W models, the TD actually tested slightly better than the TR.

 

[jankerson]

I don't see any ACTUAL reviews of the CX550m on that list. The Cybenetics data doesn't qualify as a "review" in my opinion. It's good data to have, useful even, but it's not a review. Also, I've heard some pretty sketchy information about the Cybenetics data, even on JG by some of the folks you guys seem to favor highly, so although I don't know enough about the who, when and why of what they do, I am somewhat skeptical.

I find it hard to believe that somebody NOT a government agency (And usually, even them) is just doing all that testing out of the kindness of their hearts and isn't receiving some kind of compensation for the data. That totally leaves it open to bias. Again, perhaps not, but I don't know that either way. I think I trust the reviewers we know that are proven resources, more. That's just me though. You are certainly welcome to your own opinion on that and you may even be right.

The rest are all different models and we already know from model to model there can and usually ARE, anything from minor to major differences. Sometimes, often in fact, not even the same platform at all within different models of the same series, so reviews of other models means nothing to me. I will grant that it's totally possible the data on the hardwareinsights review has at least the potential to be flawed, but without some other review to negate it, it's kind of all we have. We've shunned better units for smaller issues, so until I see something that refutes that information unquestionably, kind of have to go with it.

Believe me, like I said, I wish somebody WOULD review that unit and show that it is worthy. Would make budget builds a bit easier to accomodate.

Even aside from that though, I've seen a few reviews of some of the other CXm models showing poor soldering and other concerns, which for the price range I guess you kind of have to expect, but it doesn't mean I have to recommend them. Plus there are clear examples of some of these units taking out hardware for no good reason, some of which have come from our own moderation team and member base, and I AM talking the 2015 and newer units, so for me it's a tough sell regardless.

Older Corsair CX units ALL tested good when new anyhow, they just didn't have very good longevity in gaming or high demand applications, so I guess it's not ALWAYS the last say just because they perform well out of the box. I suppose that could probably be applied to a lot of other, non-Corsair units as well though.

I saw that review also and I don't recommend the CX550M either. With the history of bad issues with that line in general I don't feel comfortable recommending any of them. I have a feeling that in the effort to keep pricing low the quality has been cut too deep on these budget units.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I am not skeptical of Cybenetics. They do get paid for every PSU they do, it's run by arguably the best, Aris, and the information presented is not altered in anyway, and that it is all tested on state-of-the-art equipment and under Aris' extensive testing program he developed.

Some may be skeptical of the badge system, but there's still a lot of great raw information you can get from it.

 

[Rexper]

You're not going to see any links to models using the Hale92 platform here or the old HEC TR2 platform, or probably any unit that unanimously has been awarded crap level achievement on any of the tier lists in existence.

Why not? We only know they're crap after reading reviews. I think it's just as important to know why a PSU is crap than why it's good.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Why not? We only know they're crap after reading reviews. I think it's just as important to know why a PSU is crap than why it's good.

Because if we were going to do THAT, THEN we might just as well send them to RealHardTechX where they can access both good and crap product reviews and still have to figure out which is which, which by your own statements they don't know about power supplies to do. Again, if you want to post links to crap power supplies you are more than welcome to do so, just, please do it in your own thread. I would prefer to only have links to trustworthy models so that the question will not be "is this unit good enough" but instead will only be "which of these good units is the best fit for ME?

Ultimately, most users couldn't give a tin sh$% which units are crappy, they just want to know which units are both good AND within their budget constraints. Having a list of good units to choose from allows them to make that decision for themselves, in a way that the end result is that no matter what they choose it won't be a mistake.

 

[Rexper]

Okay, so you want this list to only include "good" PSUs. Tell me, what defines a "good" power supply? For old iGPU prebuilt systems looking for a PSU replacement, even a Corsair VS may reasonable choice depending on prices. For a modern gaming system including a GTX 1080ti + 8700k for example, I wouldn't or recommend settling for anything much less than a Corsair TXM.

Also this may mislead some people to believe a CSM is just as good/reliable/performing/durable/safe to use as a Corsair AX1600i.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Well, there are never any easy answers when it comes to hand holding, so I didn't expect this to be any different. I imagine the answer to that question will work itself out as time goes on. Perhaps I WILL have to use some kind of differentiator as to what a specific unit is good FOR, but I'm not going to worry about that at this early stage. It's a good point though. Thinking on that it occurred to use a "good" vs "better" differentiator or something like that, but then it occurred just as quickly that that would immediately take it right back to a tiered configuration, just, with only two tiers and leaving out all the crap units.

Perhaps I might have to simply use special characters next to the review in place of the list bullet to specify units that are "just good" for average systems and those that are "good for gaming or high demand systems". That might be enough to avoid being a form of tier list while still providing a sense of what is potentially better for a specific type of system. Again, not going to worry about that at this early stage though.

To be honest, I may not even include units that are not capable of at least supporting a GTX 1050 or higher, thus cutting out any chance of somebody trying to use a unit that is only good enough for a system with integrated graphics trying to use one for a higher end system. We don't care if you go overkill nearly as much as we do about somebody trying to use a low end unit with a gaming or high end workstation card system, so I think selection is likely to be the key along with ensuring users have accurate knowledge of the actual capacities they should be looking at based on system demand, de-rating, performance at a given thermal range and concerns with longevity in any given unit, all of which are likely to have already been considered if you see them listed in the OP.

I haven't all the answers, and probably almost definitely never will, but neither does anybody else or if they do I haven't seen it yet, so we'll just see what happens. Even an imperfect apple can still taste good if you avoid the brown spots.