Discussion Power supply / PSU models - What to buy, what to avoid - And PSU discussion thread

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4745454b

Titan
Moderator
I know. They used to make the Antec signature series. That's the last consumer PSU I'm aware of them making. I had to explain to people back then that just because it's not a seasonic doesn't mean delta is crap. They are very well known in the server PSU market. They do make really good PSUs. I just wish they'd come back to the consumer side seeing as it's all Seasonic and Superflower/leadex platforms now in the high end. FSP and CWT can make some good ones, but they are usually midrange at best. Another higher end player would be nice to have.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
I agree, it would. Delta makes very good hardware.

Two more high end or at least low upper tiered quality players making solid, reliable, AFFORDABLE power supplies, would be the ticket. The problem is that other players don't have the resources to do that and survive. Every time somebody tries, these big players will cut prices to the point where they are losing money, just to drive the other smaller players out of the market.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Mar 16, 2013
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Then again, maybe Delta simply does not want nor need the consumer space.

Marketing and Sales cast the chicken bones across the boardroom table, and decided its not worth their time and effort to chase that market.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
I believe since Seasonic has pretty much pushed mainstream psu platform sales, it's OEM department is more than likely not so much a money maker as a basic staple. This would leave Delta plenty of space to really expand its OEM contracts. Seasonic production has got to be spread out if it's outsourcing psus like the S12-III and either refused, couldn't or deliberately over priced the production of the XFX XT's.

Suffering from over-popularity perhaps?
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
I think that's me. Nothing wrong with Seasonic products of course. But when every higher end PSU is Seasonic or Leadex based Superflower things get boring. FSP, CWT, and HEC make some good mid range products. It's just odd to me that there is another known good PSU manufacturer out there who is sitting on the sidelines. More so that they used to make consumer PSUs then stopped. There might not be money in it, might not be where they think they should focus their priorities or a number of other reasons. But at this point its Seasonic or Superflower at the high end for us and it's getting a bit boring over here.

I happen to super like FSP and Delta. It's probably just the fanboy in me hoping one of them steps up in the higher end segment. Oh well.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Seems like I read something related to Delta a while back, and it's been a couple of years now so I can't remember for certain, but it seems I remember reading something where Delta had said that they were not going to put any eggs in that basket because they foresee that market being unsustainable and that it was a waste of money to invest in a market that wouldn't exist in ten years, or something to that effect. Five years later, it doesn't look like this market is going anywhere but then again I'm sure for every Seasonic or Super Flower based consumer PSU that gets sold, Delta likely sells ten OEM or enterprise/server oriented power supplies. And that is why they are a go to supplier for those markets and why they likely have no interest in pushing into a market where the profit margins are likely a lot lower than when selling to multi-million and multi-billion dollar companies and data centers.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Small potatoes. Flextronics has the AX, AXi. That's 2 models out of hundreds of high end. CWT has a few, even Andyson has 1 or 2, Chicony, Delta, Greatwall etc all have a couple. But the vast majority are a combination of Seasonic or SuperFlower based platforms.

It was 'the grass is green' statement, obviously grass can also be blue, yellow, brown or a variety of other colors, but generally grass is considered green.

For the last 40 odd years, concerning psus there was only 2 real choices. Seasonic or junk. It's only been in the last 10-15 years or so that there was any other choices. And that's only because nobody really gave any real thought to the psu. Only stipulation was wattage size. Things are far different now. There's a reason why Seasonic was/is the 'go to' psu.
 
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NightHawkRMX

Illustrious
There's a reason why Seasonic was/is the 'go to' psu.
They still are in many cases. To my knowledge, they don't make many crap units. Even their OEM units seem fine.

You cant make the statement for other name brands.

Cooler Master and Thermaltake are name brands, but make tons of junk models of PSUs with a few good models sprinkled in.
Corsair currently doesn't make any terrible units (to my knowledge), but some of their older units are bad.

EVGA is confusing and infuriating. They have great units, but a TON of crappy models.
I have heard people buy an N1 600w, have it explode, and then say they thought it was a good unit upon purchase because its EVGA branded.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Corsair had the same issue, especially with the older C series (didn't blow up, just died). And SuperFlower also puts out a ton of junk too. Just don't confuse the OEM with a brand, they aren't the same, Corsair or Evga, TT or CM doesn't make a single psu, they get Greatwall or CWT or others to do that and slap a paint job on the outside. HEC has a few decent platforms in other vendor brands, but I'd not touch an actual HEC branded unit with a 10ft pole.
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
What crazy is i think it was andy that made the first 80+ titanium. They normally make junk.

Clearly you've never heard of Flextronics, and even CWT makes some on the high end (RMx, RMi etc)
Careful assuming. Again, the issue is any higher end unit is going to be seasonic our leadex based superflower. Of course there are random other units in there. Just wish they'd end up in there more often. I'll go mutter my wishes in the corner.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
That's not saying much. There are a lot of 80plus certified units that are absolute garbage. Just look at most of the Raidmax units. A power supply only needs to be able to run well enough to last for maybe an hour or two (Four max?) to pass some testing. 80plus is irrelevant unless you already know the platform and builder are reliable.

It could be 80plus Titanium rated but if it dies a week later, doesn't amount to much. 80plus is in no-wise related to the reliability or build quality of any unit. It is only a wall plaque saying you passed the course.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
As noted on the first page of this thread.

Higher 80plus certification doesn't mean anything, UNLESS it is a PSU platform that we already know is good anyhow. For example, a Seasonic Prime platinum unit is going to be a better product than a Seasonic Prime Gold unit, because we already know the Prime platform is very good, and platinum efficiency along with it shows there are some improvements internally to account for the higher efficiency.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, whether or not it has an 80plus certification is irrelevant.
So HAVING an 80plus certification does not mean it is a good unit, but NOT having an 80plus certification almost certainly means either the unit is really poor quality OR is a very old platform OR is a platform that does not have active power factor correction, because those units (Like the VP450 for example) cannot receive 80plus certification due to lack of active power factor correction.
 
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But the vast majority are a combination of Seasonic or SuperFlower based platforms.
PRIME Titanium/Plat are the only Seasonic high ends that I can think of. And the Super Flower Leadex II/III.
FSP makes a few high end models as well (be quiet!'s higher end, like dark power pro 11)
CWT also makes the HX/i series.
 
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Corsair or Evga, TT or CM doesn't make a single psu, they get Greatwall or CWT or others to do that and slap a paint job on the outside.
Corsair, possibly CM or TT (I don't know if they have a dedicated PSU team or not) do more than "slap a label on a CWT/GW unit". They work with the OEM's to design the PSUs.
EVGA on the other hand do not have a dedicated team of PSU engineers, so that statement would be true for them.
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
What is with everyone assuming I know nothing?


Duh. I know just because it's 80+ doesn't mean it great. I've seen the Hardocp article that talks about the 80+ lying. I'm talking about a known good unit, from ANDY(!) of all places. (Assuming they don't build worse units later of course, I'm NOT dumb/stupid.)

As for ramblings I can't help you. Delta or FSP stepping up and being a new highend player would be great. CWT or even Andy can do it as well though I have less faith in them.

It's ok. Insult me. I'm done.

edit: That was the third unit Wolf reviewed. So not the first. Looking online everyone was claiming to be "first" including Dell. We'll probably never know.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Clearly you've never heard of Flextronics, and even CWT makes some on the high end (RMx, RMi etc)
Considering you are using above average gold units in your statement, limiting high end Seasonic to just the Prime Titanium series,
PRIME Titanium/Plat are the only Seasonic high ends that I can think of. And the Super Flower Leadex II/III.
Is really kinda redundant. Just adding in the Focus and Focus Plus platforms adds more than a few, not to mention the older high end Seasonics including the SFX listings.

It wouldn't be all that hard to come up with 30 different Seasonic and SuperFlower based high-end psu models. And that's just your more popular sales from Evga, Antec, Seasonic, SuperFlower, Corsair, Riotoro, beQuiet, Fractal Design and a few others besides.

Try name 10 flextronics, fortron, Andyson, sirfa/sirtec, HEC high-end psus in total.
Seasonic/SuperFlower dominates the high end, followed by CWT.
 
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NightHawkRMX

Illustrious
It seems Seasonic makes some controversial PSUs.

The FOCUS gold units are very controversial due to the ripple and OCP issues.
The S12/M12 units are also controversial due to age.

I got into a debate about whether an S12ii 620w or M12ii 620w would be enough for an RTX2080super.

I said no. While it may work, its going to be noisy and hot.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Not really. The gpu only uses what it needs and wattage output is the same. The only difference to efficiency is the amount it pulls from the wall. If the psu has 350w output, it'll pull 435w with a Bronze and 390w with a Gold, a 45w difference. Chump change. The exhaust will be slightly warmer, but the fans will not be much different in rpm.

I'd trust that S/M12-II 620w to deliver long term continuous power, especially at that level, much more than many Gold rated units currently or previously sold. The S/M12-II is an older design, group regulated, but still solid and quality designed/built, even if new designs have better outputs.

Ford used the 5.0/302 for years. Then it came out with the aluminum block 4.6L. Lighter, faster, more HP. Guess what's in the new cars. Not the 4.6L. Newer doesn't necessarily mean better.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
No, the 5.0/302....

Heavy gaming use on a 2080 super is going to average somewhere around 400-450w total at 4k. That's @ 65-70% loads on a 580w rated psu. It'll handle it. As long as the cpu isn't an i9 9900k.
 

NightHawkRMX

Illustrious
I was taking out my PSU today for umm, no reason at all.

I noticed there was clear plastic behind the fan covering about 1/3 of the fan in my CXM.

I'm wandering what the use for this would be. Like to direct air, quiet it?
 

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