Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

[Aeacus]

Basically there's better, cheaper, unless you really must have the ARGB.

Any good quality PSU + mount the PSU so you can see the fan + Phanteks Halos RGB fan frame and you have all the RGB you'd need.


I'd rather do that than go for mediocre or below mediocre PSU with RGB fan built-in. Of course, that trick doesn't work if you have PSU shroud but with PSU shroud, you won't be seeing the built-in RGB fan regardless.

 

[Mezoxin]

It's about as good as it gets for an ARGB unit, but still stomped by the RMx across the board. Gonna fail several areas in upcoming ATX standards, gonna probably have issues with some mobo's due to seriously excessive power on times. Low end Japanese caps, not even the medium grade stuff. In-line caps, again.

it is overpriced but still a decent performer if it wasn't for the power on timing I wouldn't mind recommending it to anyone who really needs RGB in a PSU
is there a way to predict which motherboards that can be problematic with its T1 duration ?
the capacitors are low end japanese ones but still 105c rated and will probably outlive the ARGB fan although the fan is FDB but i dont trust RGB fans manufacturing as i quote someone that is very well respected in the industry who said something in the context of that the patents of RGB fans are owned by and consequently manufactured by low tier fan manufacturers

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's not why. RGB fans are generally cheap for the most part because they haven't figured out a way to fit both the RGB circuitry and a powerful, high quality fan motor, into the same space. If you notice what pretty much all RGB fans lack, it's a lack of good static pressure ratings. Good static pressure requires a beefier fan motor and a beefier fan motor is currently either hard or impossible to fit into an area that was by design only meant for the fan motor but which now also needs to accommodate the lighting circuitry and components on the fan end of things as well.

If you have some concrete evidence that runs contrary to that as far as the patent side of things is concerned, I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[Mezoxin]

its not evidence just was a post i read on this forum from a reputable person
post#52
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?17119-Help-me-chose-a-good-PSU&p=161090#post161090

 

[Darkbreeze]

I think he was talking in general terms, not specifics. But who knows. I've heard nothing similar to that. There are literally hundreds of different companies making RGB products, both fans and otherwise. While some forms of controller could likely be patented, I doubt anybody could patent the idea of using colored lighting itself.

 

[Mezoxin]

I think he was talking in general terms, not specifics. But who knows. I've heard nothing similar to that. There are literally hundreds of different companies making RGB products, both fans and otherwise. While some forms of controller could likely be patented, I doubt anybody could patent the idea of using colored lighting itself.

not just coloured lighting , i think he was referring to the patents of lighting effects specially those found in AIO coolers of the major brands he mentioned .

 

[Mezoxin]

even thermaltake says they are patented

https://www.thermaltake.com/toughpower-gf1-argb-750w-gold-tt-premium-edition.html#description

 

[Karadjgne]

For me, I do not see a 'need' for rgb/argb. That's all pure luxury. And let's face it, in psu terms, a fan is a fan, most still use Yate-Loon or something close, because that's never been a priority, it's just got to move air and last a while. With the psu itself, the guts sit in a modular box, nothing special, just a cube with replaceable sides/top etc. The only important aspect is the modular connection plate and any side where it's used in conjunction with mosfets as a heatsink.

You want RGB? Pull off a side panel, replace it with a chunk of acrylic/plexiglass ans swap out the fan for your lighting choice. The fan itself, regardless of lack of performance due to internal circuitry in the motor housing, really isn't going to be any worse than the original. It's not like psus come with Noctua ippc 2000 fans....

So you void the warranty. Seriously how big of a deal is that. It's nice that Seasonic and others have enough faith to shovel out 10-12 year warranties, but considering what we used 10 years ago compared to now, wonder if it'll take that long for ppl to look at the Corsair RMx in 10 years, the way they look at the Seasonic S/M12-II now.

As expensive as outfitting rgb/argb is now, a $100 psu is chump change, it's performance won't change, it's ability won't change, it won't suddenly become a pos because a warranty is voided.

So fix your own lighting needs, it's your stuff so do as you please. I'd rather the Leadex III be a slightly revamped G2 with better holdup times than a not-quite G3 thats more expensive due to an argb fan and a button on the back.

 

[Karadjgne]

even thermaltake says they are patented

https://www.thermaltake.com/toughpower-gf1-argb-750w-gold-tt-premium-edition.html#description

Might want to actually read the whole thing.
Patented 16.8 million-color Riing Duo 140mm fan. It's the Riing Duo fan that's patented, not the 16.8 million colors. You can only patent something made by man, whether a design, an idea, a blueprint or creation. You cannot patent something that's naturally occurring, such as a sound note, color, temperature, mineral etc. You want to patent a song, be my guest, the pattern of notes is made by man, but the notes themselves are not.

 

[USAFRet]

"16.8 million colors" is simply 256 x 256 x 256.
256 values each of RGB.

 

[Mezoxin]

Might want to actually read the whole thing.
Patented 16.8 million-color Riing Duo 140mm fan. It's the Riing Duo fan that's patented, not the 16.8 million colors.

i am talking about the patented fan models and their rgb effects , if you think about it the ARGB effects with its various combinations and permutations can be compared to a song in your analogy specially with ARGB

 

[Karadjgne]

Lights come on, lights go off. You could patent the exact timing/sequence of that, but change it by 1 millisecond or one color variation and the patent is void. Vanilla Ice proved that, changed 1 note in the Queen song Under Pressure invalidated Queen's patent as now its an entirely different pattern, regardless of any implied/assumed similarities. TT patented the Riing, it's particular design and composition. Not it's ability. Add or remove 1 led, change the wiring path, the design of the snaps used to hold the clear ish plastic and it's now no longer a Riing, even if it looks identical from the outside. It's why you cannot patent a PSU, only the platform, the design. Not the fact of a power supply. Same as the effect of plugging in a connector is universal, you could patent the exact molex connector in the back of the psu, but not the modularity or its aspect or permutations.

 

[Mezoxin]

I agree its easy to bypass that patent if it was based on what i mentioned earlier , but i think there is more to that . and the term rgb effects probably means something else , which made johnyguru say that they are unable to put high quality rgb fans in AIO's because of RGB effects patents
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?17119-Help-me-chose-a-good-PSU&p=161086#post161086
"Keep in mind that I am well aware that most, if not all, AIO's have the absolute worse fans in the world on them for the application. "

he then explains that by saying
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?17119-Help-me-chose-a-good-PSU&p=161090#post161090

" If they were really using the best fans for the application, I could use those same fans in PSUs and not have to pay for tooling new fan frames and blades.
The unfortunate truth is that the RGB lighting effects are patented by incompetent fan manufacturers. Since RGB is currently dominating the DIY market, we're stuck with inferior fans. "

 

[Darkbreeze]

I agree, in a power supply, the factors that normally steer us away from an RGB fan in terms of it's performance, are irrelevant. As long as the fan is capable of moving air and being at least reasonably quiet, as well as having a reasonable amount of longevity, then the rest really doesn't matter. I'm not sure, even minimal as the amount is with LEDs, that adding anything that adds some additional heat inside the PSU is a great idea, but it's really not a deal breaker in my opinion either. I just don't see the point because as was mentioned, 99% of them will either be facing down or be behind a shroud, making them mostly pointless.

 

[Karadjgne]

Wonder if any of the big companies would start putting clear sides on rgb/argb units. Or would that be takin this lighting fad a little too far. I mean there's now argb cpu/gpu waterblocks, why not a psu too

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Wonder if any of the big companies would start putting clear sides on rgb/argb units. Or would that be takin this lighting fad a little too far. I mean there's now argb cpu/gpu waterblocks, why not a psu too

Well fsp does water cooled psus.
What about a PSU with rgb waterblock, clear sides, and rgb fan

 

[Darkbreeze]

Just stop it. Before they hear you.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Lights come on, lights go off. You could patent the exact timing/sequence of that, but change it by 1 millisecond or one color variation and the patent is void. Vanilla Ice proved that, changed 1 note in the Queen song Under Pressure invalidated Queen's patent as now its an entirely different pattern, regardless of any implied/assumed similarities. TT patented the Riing, it's particular design and composition. Not it's ability. Add or remove 1 led, change the wiring path, the design of the snaps used to hold the clear ish plastic and it's now no longer a Riing, even if it looks identical from the outside. It's why you cannot patent a PSU, only the platform, the design. Not the fact of a power supply. Same as the effect of plugging in a connector is universal, you could patent the exact molex connector in the back of the psu, but not the modularity or its aspect or permutations.

That's not how patents work. You can't circumvent a patent by making a trivial change that has no effect on function.

Also, copyright law is different than patent law. And vanilla ice was sued (and settled) for his copyright infringement of the musical hook he 'borrowed' from under pressure.

 

[Darkbreeze]

No, that's not how patents work. You can't circumvent a patent by making a trivial change that has no effect on function.

Also, copyright law is different than patent law. And vanilla ice was sued (and settled) for his copyright infringement of the musical hook he 'borrowed' from under pressure.

Vanilla Ice Claims He Owns Queen's 'Under Pressure'

Vanilla Ice claimed he owns Queen's 'Under Pressure' in July 2017.

ultimateclassicrock.com

http://exclaim.ca/music/article/apparently_vanilla_ice_owns_the_rights_to_under_pressure

 

[Mezoxin]

View: https://youtu.be/-J2uFTyIAo0


looks Interesting hope passmark will listen to aris suggestions and improve on it

 

[4745454b]

Wait, did he say $600?

I've always thought that guy that wanted to make a cheap load tester might have been onto something. I'd love to make a simple machine that allows me to load a PSU that I don't have to worry about the PSU failing causing my tester to die. This way I can test the cheap crap units people buy and show everyone why that $20 500W PSU on ebay should be avoided. But no way am I plugging one of those into a $600 tester. I shouldn't need anything that tests inrush current, ripple, or anything like that. When those crap units get pushed to what they should be able to handle they tend to die around the 60% load mark. Giant variable resistors cooled by a fan?

 

[Mezoxin]

The Out of spec ripples that the Focus plus experienced at overload seems to be something that seasonic is aware of and i quote The Mask at JG forums on that , to my knowledge he is a credible source , am I right ?

And according to Seasonic they shouldn't have any of the problems of the original Focus. So no black screens, no shut downs and no out of spec ripple. Should also be ATX 2.52 compatible.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?16759-Second-generation-Seasonic-Focus-available

 

[4745454b]

Something that goes out of spec when overloaded isn't something I worry about. If you overload your PSU you are asking for trouble. Out of spec voltage or ripple isn't the fault of PSU when it's overloaded. It's your fault for using the wrong PSU. Sure, it would be nice if the protections were set better so it shut down before the out of spec happened, but it's still YOUR fault for using the undersized PSU.

 

[Mezoxin]

Something that goes out of spec when overloaded isn't something I worry about. If you overload your PSU you are asking for trouble. Out of spec voltage or ripple isn't the fault of PSU when it's overloaded. It's your fault for using the wrong PSU. Sure, it would be nice if the protections were set better so it shut down before the out of spec happened, but it's still YOUR fault for using the undersized PSU.

I agree that it's not a realistic scenario but its also unfortunate specially from a manufacturer like seasonic , and would make other competitors such as the corsair RMx a better buy

also out of spec ripple at 120% overload is not something that can be fixed by simply lowering the setpoint at a lower point as this would cause the OPP to trip on high transient spikes of some high end gpu's specially for lower wattage models (550w&650w) , Aris recommends OPP to be set up at around 125% to prevent that from happening

 

[4745454b]

But if it's not a realistic scenario and I'm not going to see it, why should I care? I feel there are a lot of times people go "OMG, PSU X does this while PSU Y doesn't!" But in order for it to happen you'd have to have a 1 in a million thing happen. If the odds are that I'd never see it, why get so worked up over it? I get that for some it's important. But I just want a good functional unit. And as long as I buy the correct one I'll never see this ripple issue.