Probably time to upgrade the gaming rig, what's going to hold me back?

[thedoublej]

With Fallout 76 and BFV coming out, I've decided that my 2011ish gaming rig is due for an upgrade. Here's what I've got:
i5-2500K @ 4.0 with a 212 on top of it
16gb of 1333 DDR3
Some Asus MB - P8Z68 V LX
DD R9-290x
PSU is a good 750
Evo 850

When I built this thing, no games used more than 2 cores, and no games used virtual cores. This can't be true anymore, as BF1 uses all 4 cores at 100% How about virtual cores, do they help?

Here's what I need:
4 cores @ 4.0, an i7 seems to be recommended across the board, not sure why
16gb of RAM, probably need faster than what I have now
RX 580, probably do a 590 if the price is right. I know Nvidia better, but I do AMD GPUs. Plan on 1440 ultrawide down the road
Do I need more PSU?
If I need more CPU, than I need more MoBo. Do I need to OC, or just buy a faster chip? What about some future proofing? I like ASUS MoBos.
What's the deal with audio? I'm running a 5.1 surround system, and I've always felt it's a bit weak for pushing 500 watts at me from 3 feet away, is this crap onboard sound?

I'll probably start with the 590 over the holidays and move forward from there, as my current mobo/cpu/ram currently meets the specs I'm after, but I can't imagine that just slapping a 590 in will make a 7 year old system current.

I'll be cooling the CPU with a Dark Rock Pro 4 because it looks cool. I'm considering water on the GPU, but my HAF XB isn't really a smart design for water cooling. The rad is mounted so that it pushes hot air into the case.

 

[QwerkyPengwen]

CPU upgrade is necessary.
I realize you use AMD cards and probably have been for a while, but I will personally recommend 10 series GTX because they are simply better and easy as pie to overclock.

Overclocking CPU isn't necessary, but since you have the DRP4 I would recommend it just cuz it's free extra performance.

Don't know what your budget is, but here's my recommended build based on a typical and average full system upgrade budget most people have.

If not living in America, please tell us your country so we can better provide you with suggestions.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor ($159.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - Fatal1ty B450 GAMING K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($93.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($124.99 @ Newegg Business)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($52.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8 GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($394.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Meshify C TG ATX Mid Tower Case ($86.49 @ Newegg)
Total: $913.34
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-08 00:17 EST-0500

Since you already have a perfectly fine cooler and PSU I didn't include those.
And I don't know if you have an SSD or not for your boot drive, but just in case you don't, I provided my recommendation.

 

[QwerkyPengwen]

I updated my post to include the build.

 

[terry4536]

With a platform update you need at a minimum a CPU, motherboard, and DDR4 RAM (assuming that you use a modern CPU). Unless you are confident of the power supply, I would upgrade that too.

If you are going to stay with Intel, then I would recommend the I5-9600K or I7 9700K. If you want hyperthreading, then get the I7-8700K. The required motherboard is a 300 series Z87 or Z97. The RAM would be DDR4 .
I would suggest 2 x 8GB of 3000 -3200 MHz memory.

 

[terry4536]

For AMD (if you want to go that route), then I would suggest An R5-2600x or R7-2700x processor. It would need an AM4 motherboard and DDR4 RAM. I would suggest 3000 MHz DDR4 RAM.

 

[thedoublej]

Thank you both, that's good information. The PSU was upgraded when I moved from a 67xx to the 290x, so unless I need more power I figure it'll be ok.

The Evo 850 is a 1TB, so I use it for boot and storage

I am partial to intel chips and amd graphics for some reason, probably because it's what I've always used, and old people don't change much.

I think I was originally looking at an i5-8600k or something similar, believe that's a 6 core chip. I'll check out the 9000 series. Do I need hyperthreading for gaming? All of my video editing is done on my other machine, still running an i7-2600 from back in the day.

How about Asus MoBos? The choices now are dizzying. I'd be fine with an updated version of my current one, no need for wifi or bluetooth. I'd like to try RGB though, looks like a fun thing.

 

[terry4536]

Thank you both, that's good information. The PSU was upgraded when I moved from a 67xx to the 290x, so unless I need more power I figure it'll be ok.

The Evo 850 is a 1TB, so I use it for boot and storage

I am partial to intel chips and amd graphics for some reason, probably because it's what I've always used, and old people don't change much.

I think I was originally looking at an i5-8600k or something similar, believe that's a 6 core chip. I'll check out the 9000 series. Do I need hyperthreading for gaming? All of my video editing is done on my other machine, still running an i7-2600 from back in the day.

How about Asus MoBos? The choices now are dizzying. I'd be fine with an updated version of my current one, no need for wifi or bluetooth. I'd like to try RGB though, looks like a fun thing.

The I5-9600K is the updated version of the I5-8600K. It is almost the same price for each. One advantage for the 9000 series is that Intel has gone back to the use of solder instead of thermal paste. So it has a cooling advantage over the 8000 series. And there is a performance gain too.

Hyperthreading is used more now in games, so it is good to have. But I wouldn't say it is a deal breaker to not have it.

For an Asus motherboard I'd suggest one of these three. And I wouldn't be too concerned with the few reviews because these Z390 motherboards were only released a couple of weeks ago. But they are the upgraded versions of popular Z370 motherboards.

ASUS ROG Strix Z390-E Gaming LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z390 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119151&ignorebbr=1

ASUS Prime Z390-A LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z390 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119152&ignorebbr=1

ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero Z390 Gaming Motherboard LGA1151 (Intel 8th and 9th Gen) ATX DDR4 DP HDMI M.2 USB 3.1 Gen2 Onboard 802.11 ac Wi-Fi
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119150&ignorebbr=1

 

[terry4536]

Also all of the motherboards that I linked have Asus Aura. That is Asus's custom RGB controller that can customize the LED lighting throughout the PC. So you would be covered on that level.

Then as you select components look for Aura compatibility. Just about all of the components now are lit up.

 

[thedoublej]

Ok, I'll check out price difference between comparable i7s and i5s and see what I'm going to do. I'll look at those ASUS boards as well, maybe I'll get lucky and find a cpu/mobo combo deal somewhere.

How about audio, onboard about as good as it gets, or should I look at sound cards?

 

[terry4536]

Ok, I'll check out price difference between comparable i7s and i5s and see what I'm going to do. I'll look at those ASUS boards as well, maybe I'll get lucky and find a cpu/mobo combo deal somewhere.

How about audio, onboard about as good as it gets, or should I look at sound cards?

I can vouch for the Asus ROG onboard Audio. You can always add a sound card, but I doubt that you will want to. I had a a sound blaster sound card on a previous system along with an Altec Lansing set of speakers. I was never happy with the sound. When I built the ROG system I intended on replacing the sound card and speakers. But I plugged in the speakers as an interim fix. I was very surprised at how much better those old speakers sounded.

Each of those linked motherboards have combo's listed above the spec's.

They aren't as good as my AV system, but they aren't that bad either.

 

[thedoublej]

What's this I'm hearing on the internet about z390 problems?

 

[terry4536]

What's this I'm hearing on the internet about z390 problems?

You will have to be more specific. I just did a search for " Z390 problems". And there was no consistent problem. There is always a certain amount of problems with a new motherboard release. But those tend to get worked out fairly quickly.

The Z390 motherboards were released about a month ago.

So, what are you referring to?

 

[terry4536]

Also if you prefer you can use a Z370 and just update the BIOS to support the new processors.

 

[thedoublej]

What I found was a little over my head, but basically there aren't any standards between manufacturers for how much power a board can supply to a CPU, so even though some say they can OC, they can really only supply about 100 watts to the CPU, while others can provide all sorts of power. Not sure how this is a 390 thing, seems like it would be all mobos, but like I said, a bit over my head.

Also looking at the dark rock pro 4 vs the dark rock 4. One has two towers and two fans, says 250 watts, the other has one tower, one fan, says 200 watts. The bigger one certainly looks cooler, but if my goals are probably 5ghz in the long term, do I need the biggest cooler ever? I haven't checked price, I'm assuming a large difference, but if it's only a few bucks, cools looks will probably win.

 

[terry4536]

In the past, CPU's were less efficient. And AMD were particularly so, the FX-9550 was a 225 watt processor. Now most Intel CPU's (for PC's) are under 100W. They range from around 35W to 95W.

I did see some discussion of VRMs and power phases for the CPU. Perhaps that is what you were talking about. If so, when it comes to power phases, more phases is considered better (10 - 12 being average). Some are saying that Asus is using too few power phases (that their listed 10 phases is actually less).

In the past they used to heavily market the phases, but now they hardly mention it. So I don't know if it is a problem or if they are just doing it differently. I doubt that Asus is going to gamble their market share over a couple of dollars worth of parts. And apparently Asus has been using this design for some time. So if it were a potential problem, it should have shown up by this time.

But if you want to switch to another brand of motherboard, that is fine too. I listed Asus boards because you mentioned Asus motherboards in your post.

 

[terry4536]

I would stay away from PC cases with power supplies. It is better to buy them separately. That way you can pick the power supply based on the power needed and the quality that you want. Plus you are almost certainly going to need more than a 250 W power supply. Any medium high end range graphics card will need a power supply in the 500W range (or more).

If you intend to overclock to 5.0 GHZ, then you should look at some of the better CPU coolers. Once you narrow down your build, I can help with components.

 

[thedoublej]

Phases, that was what they were talking about, saying that no one was advertising phases, and we were all left guessing. Over my head, like I said. I have had good luck with Asus, and no mention was made as to which Mobo manufacturer was an issue, so I thought maybe it was an overall Z390 issue.

Power supply I'm good on, I have a 750, was talking about CPU air coolers. They list a wattage on the packaging, 200 or 250 depending on the number of towers on the cooler. I'm guessing that's CPU wattage. If I remember right, my 2500K is rated at 95W, and I see just under 110W when running hardware monitor and Prime 95. I'm assuming that Dark Rock is saying the big pro 4 can cool a chip using 250W, so I'm guessing that with a mildly OCd 8600 or 9600, I'd never see anywhere near 200w of power consumption, yeah?

Last question, this is a hot one. Sapphire Vega 64, the plain old boring blower fan one, for $400 new, from a reputable source. I want to run BFV at 1440/60+fps, get it right this second or wait?

Thanks.

 

[terry4536]

Phases, that was what they were talking about, saying that no one was advertising phases, and we were all left guessing. Over my head, like I said. I have had good luck with Asus, and no mention was made as to which Mobo manufacturer was an issue, so I thought maybe it was an overall Z390 issue.

Power supply I'm good on, I have a 750, was talking about CPU air coolers. They list a wattage on the packaging, 200 or 250 depending on the number of towers on the cooler. I'm guessing that's CPU wattage. If I remember right, my 2500K is rated at 95W, and I see just under 110W when running hardware monitor and Prime 95. I'm assuming that Dark Rock is saying the big pro 4 can cool a chip using 250W, so I'm guessing that with a mildly OCd 8600 or 9600, I'd never see anywhere near 200w of power consumption, yeah?

Last question, this is a hot one. Sapphire Vega 64, the plain old boring blower fan one, for $400 new, from a reputable source. I want to run BFV at 1440/60+fps, get it right this second or wait?

Thanks.

That is referring to the CPU's specified TDP (thermal design power rating in watts). That is the amount of heat generated by the processor in a real world environment.

For example the new I5-9600K has a TDP of 95 watts. And it has a Thermal Solution Specification of 130 watts. That is the Intel rating of the suggested CPU cooler for this processor. It is confusing. And it is that useful since CPU cooler manufacturers don't really use it. I went to the Noctua website to see if they specify it there. This is there generic table for it.

https://noctua.at/en/tdp-guide


I5-9600K Specs
https://ark.intel.com/products/134896/Intel-Core-i5-9600K-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4-60-GHz-

 

[terry4536]

Phases, that was what they were talking about, saying that no one was advertising phases, and we were all left guessing. Over my head, like I said. I have had good luck with Asus, and no mention was made as to which Mobo manufacturer was an issue, so I thought maybe it was an overall Z390 issue.

No it is more of a marketing thing in general for motherboards. The emphasis now is RGB. You used to get a lot of hype about the phases, now you are lucky to get a sentence. It isn't just Z390. For the most part Z390 motherboards are this years version of last years Z370. The Z390 just includes the new 9000 processors in the list of supported CPUs. The Z370 just needs a BIOS update to update that list. There may be new portions of the motherboard, but I would guess that they are few.

 

[terry4536]

Last question, this is a hot one. Sapphire Vega 64, the plain old boring blower fan one, for $400 new, from a reputable source. I want to run BFV at 1440/60+fps, get it right this second or wait?

It is up to you really. Ordinarily that price will probably be available later on (perhaps even less). But it does seem to be a pretty good price.

Note that Black Friday sales are just around the corner.

 

[thedoublej]

Ok, so in reality, since my OCing goals are minor to medium at best, I should be ok with any name brand Mobo and a good air cooler?

How bout that Vega 64?

 

[terry4536]

Ok, so in reality, since my OCing goals are minor to medium at best, I should be ok with any name brand Mobo and a good air cooler?

How bout that Vega 64?

I would suggest getting a motherboard that is well reviewed. And one that you are comfortable with. Since the Z390 is only been available for a little over a month there are few reviews as yet.

I don't think that I would be comfortable with a cheap motherboard myself. But I know that there are plenty of people that couldn't care less as long as it works.

As far as the Sapphire Vega 64, I don't know much about it. It is supposed to be roughly similar to a GTX 1070 or 1070 Ti. It doesn't seem to have many reviews. It is rated at 3 stars at Amazon.

 

[thedoublej]

Pre black Friday got me, and there's a 34" ultrawide sitting on my floor now with the 1440. Turns out a 590 can't do 3440x1440 at any usable frame rate, so I changed my plan to a Vega 56, which was on sale for $340. Yesterday, the Vega 64 also hit $340, so it's in the mail. I'm gonna crank up my 2500k a couple more tenths for now while I gather the dough for a 9600k. Any idea if I can OC my old RAM a little?

 

[terry4536]

Pre black Friday got me, and there's a 34" ultrawide sitting on my floor now with the 1440. Turns out a 590 can't do 3440x1440 at any usable frame rate, so I changed my plan to a Vega 56, which was on sale for $340. Yesterday, the Vega 64 also hit $340, so it's in the mail. I'm gonna crank up my 2500k a couple more tenths for now while I gather the dough for a 9600k. Any idea if I can OC my old RAM a little?

You can try overclocking the DDR3 RAM some more. But frankly for DDR3, I generally just go with the XMP profile for the particular RAM (and buy the appropriate RAM with the frequency that I want).

 

[thedoublej]

I tried adding 1 to my multiplier with a stock base clock, and the whole system crapped out, all four cores failed Prime 95 inside of 15 minutes. They can run for hours on a 40x1 clock. I backed that off, and added a couple points to the base clock to bring the CPU to 4.05ghz and the RAM came up to 1352 or so, that ran Prime just fine, so I'll have to leave it be for now. That chip is 7 years old and has had a hard life, so I guess no stable 4.5ghz for me.