problems with receiving irdb updates sim card issue?

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Good evening. I have for the past 3 months have had to call Cingular to
manually download irdb updates. Each time I call they say it didn't go
through and they manually do it. I asked if it was supposed to happen
automatically and they said yes. I asked if this could be a sim card issue
and they said possibly. Does anyone have thoughts on this? I am using a
6340i and a motv400. Thanks.

--
John W. Hess
Senior Associate
Evaluation & Training

De Witt & Associates
Suite 110
700 Godwin Avenue
Midland Park, NJ 07432

Phone: (973) 664-1963
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"John W. Hess" <fustibule@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<VPvqc.65547$MH.15207976@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
> Good evening. I have for the past 3 months have had to call Cingular to
> manually download irdb updates.


How often are you expecting updates?

When I was a Cingular customer (on TDMA, so I realize the systems are
different) I rarely if ever got an update without begging them for it.
I reserved those times for when I changed rate plans or phones.

> Each time I call they say it didn't go
> through and they manually do it. I asked if it was supposed to happen
> automatically and they said yes. I asked if this could be a sim card issue
> and they said possibly. Does anyone have thoughts on this? I am using a
> 6340i and a motv400.

I'm not sure why you're worried about it. I've had to politely
explain to a CSR that I wasn't going to pay roaming charges in, say,
San Diego, for example, because it wasn't my fault the phone with the
outdated IRDB locked onto Verizon instead of AT&T, but other than
that, I could care less if my phone says "Cingular", "Cingular
Extend", or "Tex 'n Edna Boil's Cellular System and Curio Emporium".
 
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"John W. Hess" <fustibule@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<VPvqc.65547$MH.15207976@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
> Good evening. I have for the past 3 months have had to call Cingular to
> manually download irdb updates. Each time I call they say it didn't go
> through and they manually do it. I asked if it was supposed to happen
> automatically and they said yes. I asked if this could be a sim card issue
> and they said possibly. Does anyone have thoughts on this? I am using a
> 6340i and a motv400. Thanks.

GSM does not use mobile-side PRLs or IRDBs. The roaming intelligence
is network-side. As I understand it, the only network information
contained w/in the handset or the SIM is a list of MCC-MNC
associations w/ carrier-specific or roaming banners for the handset
display.

Thus, an IRDB update for the TDMA component of your Nokia 6340i may be
required. For your Moto V400, it is entirely irrelevant.

As Cingular SIMs remove manual network selection capability, a mobile
will attempt to acquire the native Cingular GSM network, then hang on
for dear life. In the absence of Cingular, the handset will query the
compatible & available GSM network(s) to determine if it is permitted
to roam in that particular Location Area. If more than one compatible
network is present & will permit roaming, then the mobile should
automatically select the strongest received BCCH.

User intervention for manual network selection is one of the wonderful
flexibilities of GSM. It really is a shame, however, that Cingular
corrupts that feature. And, for that reason precisely, I will never
use Cingular GSM.

Andrew
--
Andrew Shepherd
cinema@ku.edu
cinema@sprintpcs.com
http://www.wirelesswavelength.com/
 
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cinema@ku.edu (Andrew Shepherd) wrote in message news:<33e89561.0405191118.32291ac5@posting.google.com>...

> User intervention for manual network selection is one of the wonderful
> flexibilities of GSM. It really is a shame, however, that Cingular
> corrupts that feature. And, for that reason precisely, I will never
> use Cingular GSM.

While that might be a minor hassle for international roamers, why is
the loss of manual selection a problem in the US? Rarely, if ever,
will you actually get a "choice" anyway. I use T-Mo, and anytime
multiple carriers are available only the one with a roaming agreement
will allow themselves to be selected.

With the consolidation of wireless, and the division into two "camps"
(CDMA and GSM) it's not like any customer in the US will ever have two
non-native GSM carriers to choose from if/when the Cingular
acquisition of ATTWS completes! ;-)
 
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elecconnec@aol.com (Todd Allcock) wrote in message
> While that might be a minor hassle for international roamers, why is
> the loss of manual selection a problem in the US? Rarely, if ever,
> will you actually get a "choice" anyway. I use T-Mo, and anytime
> multiple carriers are available only the one with a roaming agreement
> will allow themselves to be selected.

Point well taken, Todd.

Only three years ago, no major markets had any coincident GSM
networks, period! As such, network selection was purely academic.

Thus, lack of manual network selection is currently a liability for
Cingular GSM users, as Cingular & AT&TWS have both essentially given
each other's subs the run of the house. But 12 to 18 months from now
-- once the merger has been consummated, the networks have been
integrated -- network selection will once again boil down to either
Cingular-AT&TWS or T-Mobile. And you can rest assured that
Cingular-AT&TWS will not request T-Mobile roaming in Location Areas
where it also has footprint. But, for the time being, AT&TWS subs
have it better than Cingular subs, as AT&TWS users can still manually
select Cingular GSM whenever, wherever they please.

Regarding international roaming, I highly doubt that Cingular has
incorporated into its SIMs network priority criteria for outside North
America. As such, in the absence of Cingular, the automatic network
selection should register w/ the strongest received BCCH. I still
would prefer the ability to select the network manually based upon
knowledge of certain standards: roaming rates, GPRS data
capabilities, frequency deployment (850 MHz, 900 MHz, 1800 MHz, 1900
MHz). But, since Cingular assuredly charges the same exorbitant
international roaming rates regardless of whether the roaming network
is Vodafone, Orange, KPN, Telefonica Moviles, et al., the Cingular sub
-- though he/she cannot manually select the preferred network -- is
monetarily affected the same nonetheless.

> With the consolidation of wireless, and the division into two "camps"
> (CDMA and GSM) it's not like any customer in the US will ever have two
> non-native GSM carriers to choose from if/when the Cingular
> acquisition of ATTWS completes! ;-)

And, admittedly, IS-41 (AMPS, IS-136 TDMA, CDMA) users have no manual
network selection capability at the mobile-level at all. They are
entirely at the mercy of the PRL/IRDB priority -- though many of us
know of the various NAM or SID programming loopholes.

Andrew
--
Andrew Shepherd
cinema@ku.edu
cinema@sprintpcs.com
http://www.wirelesswavelength.com/
 
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On 19 May 2004 12:18:15 -0700, cinema@ku.edu (Andrew Shepherd) wrote:

>
>User intervention for manual network selection is one of the wonderful
>flexibilities of GSM. It really is a shame, however, that Cingular
>corrupts that feature. And, for that reason precisely, I will never
>use Cingular GSM.

You do realize, that by using an unbranded GSM phone with a Cingular
SIM, you do get full network selection capabilities? The restriction
is in the SIM, not the phone...
 
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"bones boy" <staring@my-scabs.com> wrote in message
news:015ta0l3dppbjucn6pk0sqmn5osmrgj9oq@4ax.com...
| On 19 May 2004 12:18:15 -0700, cinema@ku.edu (Andrew Shepherd) wrote:
|
| >
| >User intervention for manual network selection is one of the wonderful
| >flexibilities of GSM. It really is a shame, however, that Cingular
| >corrupts that feature. And, for that reason precisely, I will never
| >use Cingular GSM.
|
| You do realize, that by using an unbranded GSM phone with a Cingular
| SIM, you do get full network selection capabilities? The restriction
| is in the SIM, not the phone...

Not entirely true. It is correct that the restriction is on the SIm and not
the phone, but Cingular has my SIM locked so that I cannot "roam" onto
another carrier in my home area. I can only select a different network when
outside my area.
 
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elecconnec@aol.com (Todd Allcock) wrote in message news:<de37a2e0.0405200843.75c2b735@posting.google.com>...

> With the consolidation of wireless, and the division into two "camps"
> (CDMA and GSM) it's not like any customer in the US will ever have two
> non-native GSM carriers to choose from if/when the Cingular
> acquisition of ATTWS completes! ;-)

Not entirely true. In CMA667 for instance there are currently 4 GSM
carriers to choose from: Cingular, AT&TWS, T-Mobile, and DCEL. Even
after the Cingular/AT&TWS merger there are 3 (or at least 2
non-native) GSM carriers left.

There are some other markets where
Cingular/AT&TWS/T-Mobile/DCEL/WWCA/etc. overlap and 3 or more GSM
carriers are present.