problems with zalman & arctic silver 5

memento_mori

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ok this is weird. got the following: asus P5WD2-E premium, D805, OCZ DDR2 2x512, 7900GT etc.. evrything running at default freq/voltages.
replaced stock HS with zalman CNPS9500LED. on full speed temps were:
idle 48-50, prime95 66-68! removed the HS, cleaned the zalman thermal grease (yes i did it properly), and replaced with arctic silver 5. temps now: idle 46-48, prime95 58-60. so some improvement, but nowhere near enough! i read excellent reviews about both arctic silver and the zalman HS and people are getting idles of 35!! plus if i overclock i'm gonna hit 70 for sure!! what can i do to cool this beast down?? plz help ive looked everywhere for ideas!!
 

godman

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oh oops, well it is a 805...perhaps (perhaps) you've got a bad one, (eg a cpu with high voltage, resulting in a higher temp)?
OR
what is the fan speed? Use the fan mate 2 (included) and increase the speed of see if that lowers the temps. (oh just read that the temps you said were full sped ones )
OR
can you try to lower the voltage a bit (step by step) and see if it's stable (though i would not normally reccomend this...)

what are you gonna do? :? PM wusy he might know what else you could do/try. :?
 

memento_mori

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well i hope i've not got a bad one :( dont think the voltage is the problem cuz the default is reported as 1.2625 which is actually lower than wat other people seem to have. i havent tried lowering it further , i might as well try although i doubt its gonna help. i'll let u know if wusy replies or if i get any luck. if all else fails i might reinstall the heatsink for the 3rd time ..sigh...thank u for replying
 

woshitudou

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Was the chip's surface perfectly clean? Some people lap their chip's metal surface to a near perfect mirror before hand. I don't like the writing on my chip's surfaces much. My Zalman made a huge difference for me (I used alcohol to clean the chip well). When I installed it, I also moved all my cables out of the way and put a front/rear fan to make air flow.
 

memento_mori

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well i wouldn't say 100% shiny as the surface of the die is somewhat matte. but it was as clean as i could manage with lint-free cloth and 70% isopropyl alcohol. the surface of the heatsink was shiny as a mirror. all my cables are tucked way forward as near as possible to the drive bays and tied together with zip wires. my case comes with a rear fan positioned right behind the HS and an additional 2 fans, one in the front and one on the side panel! 8O
 

godman

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yeah similarly was the bottom of the heatsink shiny(like a mirror)+smooth or was it scratched, this could mean that there is a bad contact between the cpu and hs/f.
Therefore you might need to try to smooth the bottom of the hs/f perhaps, athough i heard that zalman colers are supposed to be high quality, and therefore they should not be scratched. :?
 

memento_mori

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no scratches that i cud see...possibly some invisible residue? i wonder if i sould try re-cleaning with something more aggressive than 70% alcohol like goof-off or something. also i dont think i applied too much, it was the size of a grain of rice in the middle of the die, then i wrapped my finger in a plasic bag and "painted" the surface with it. anyone found a better technique?
 

godman

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it seems like you did the way you're supposed to (the rice bit is right), however do exactly what the instructions say. I think there is a special way how to do it because i read the instructions on the net and they were quite long for 'how to apply silver coloured paste' :p

I'm sure you didn't put too much on it, and im sure you haven't put too little on it either. Too much is just as bad as too little! :p
 

sailer

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Someone mentioned fans and the question has to be asked; how many fans do you and what placement are they. If the inside of the case is too hot, even a Zalman can't cure that.
 

Mondoman

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... i dont think i applied too much, it was the size of a grain of rice in the middle of the die, then i wrapped my finger in a plasic bag and "painted" the surface with it. ...
The recommended method from Arctic Silver is to apply the grain-of-rice amount and NOT spread it with your finger, but just to let the heat sink surface squish it and spread it out that way. When done this way, it will cover a disc-shaped area stretching to the edges of the CPU, but not the corners. Thus, by using a rice-grain amount and spreading it with your finger, you may have used too little.
 

godman

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sailer said:
Someone mentioned fans and the question has to be asked; how many fans do you and what placement are they. If the inside of the case is too hot, even a Zalman can't cure that.

yeah and also check if the rar fan is blowing air in and the direction the 9500 is blowing air. You ideally want the rear fan to exaust air, the front fan to bring air in and the 9500 to exaust air in combination with the rear fan. But you know this alredy, right?

otherwise the air inside the case becomes a mess and it all collides, thats a bad thing :lol:
 

memento_mori

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thank u guys for ur replies! i believe the rear fan blows air out of the case and the front one in, not sure about the side one tho i think it blows it out as well. will test them and see. i will also give the HS and cpu another good clean and try applying the same amount of grease without spreading it around this time as advised. will post results tomorrow! wish me luck!
 

woshitudou

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I don't do the grain of rice then let it squish cause if the grain is too small you don't get good squish. I just blob a bit then use a clean flat edge (like bank card) to evenly distribute it. haven't had a prob yet.

Can you feel your front fan's breeze inside the case with your hand? I bought new 80mm/120mm fans for my case, the front 120mm fan was on 5v because the case greatly restricted it from streaming air well.

Today I took some wire cutters, a small saw blade and a banana knife and I cut the grill and platic front of my case out. The difference in air flow was over 200% while still on 5v. I'm leaving it on 5v for now till I need more cooling.

This pic shows the front of my case near the bottom where I cut out the plastic and cut the grills. The red outline is where I cut. I need to put an air filter in now.



This pic is with the front of the case opened and looking down into it.


I tested the heat difference having my side case fan versus no side case fan (taped over). The fan isn't directly over the CPU, its more over the RAM:

Room temperature is 29c

With side 80m 12v fan blowing air in:
Oct 11 2006 - 22:19
hdd0 27c (wd hd160gb ide, at top)
hdd1 33-35c (wd hd250gb sata2 shorted to sata1, at bottom of case)
temp3 18c
temp1 23c
CPU 33c

With side fan unplugged and taped over:
Oct 11 2006 - 23:03
hdd0 27c (wd hd160gb ide, at top)
hdd1 31-33c (wd hd250gb sata2 shorted to sata1, at bottom of case)
temp3 16c
temp1 22c

CPU 32-33c

Both ran for 30-40 minutes so its not biased.

If your new Zalman isn't cooling things off enough then maybe it doesn't have good air to cool with. Is the fan plugged into the motherboard or a molex connector (ensure its plugged into motherboard)
 

woshitudou

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Wait wait.. there is a difference between thermal pastes. Silver has higher thermal conductivity than copper which has a much higher thermal conductivity than aluminium (sadly gold doesn't score high here). Silver thermal paste help transfer heat faster between the surfaces.

There is a bit more science here too. Sometimes you see aluminium used instead of copper despite copper's great heat transfer traits. The reason is; since aluminium transfers heat slower, it gives the heat time to disperse throughout the surface evenly. Copper on the other hand takes the heat so fast that its hot where the surfaces touch, it doesn't have the time to spread the heat evenly around.

Many cooking pots don't have copper bottoms for this reason. If you have a copper bottom, the copper will transfer the heat in the elements spiral pattern to the cooking surface in the pot which inturn cooks your food primarily in the spiral patter. To fix this a copper plate is sandwiched between the inside of the pot and another metal bottom. The metal bottom with a lower thermal conductivity lets the heat evenly distribute better before it gets to the copper which quickly transfers it to the inner cooking surface.

I want a silver CPU heatsink.
 

bigsby

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I wouldn't count on that. Using the stock thermal pad on my computer, at load my temps were 53 to 55, when I used AS5, after the 200 hours, my load temps dropped to 47 to 49, as well as my fan speed went from 4200 to 3200, a nice drop in temperature and sound.

One thing you may want to try, is take your motherboard out when you put on your Zalman, so that you get a proper seal on it. My friend has the Zalman and an Opty 165 and his load temps are 32 degrees, idle is probably 29.
 

memento_mori

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ok guys to those of u who asked me about my fans..tested them by holding a thin strip of tissue in front to see the direction of airflow. front fan: inwards, side fan: inwards. rear fan situated just behind the HS: outwards. i think thats alright! i've ordered arcticlean 1 & 2 and will give it a final thorough clean then reassemble using the squish technique. will let u all know as soon as i do. as for voltages no i dont think theyre too high, i kept them at default which is 1.2625 and according to THG they went up all the way to 1.500!!
 

ddemaray

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I have an amd 4800 and had the exact same problem as you. I removed the fan and reinstalled it about twenty times and could not figure it out...then replaced it with another one and it got my cpu down to 44c idle and 50c full load. I would try exchanging if for another one. Also try removing the side of your case to see if you just have heat trapped inside.
 

memento_mori

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i got my arcticlean 1 & 2 today and gave the HS and CPU a very thorough clean. i then applied AS5 and let the HS squish it on to the cpu. results now: idle 43/ stress 56. (this is vs. idle 49/ stress 58 that i was getting before). :? not bad i suppose, but not that impressed to be honest. i give up though, dont think theres anything else i can do. i still want to overclock but dont want to burn the cpu in the process! should i wait for a couple of weeks for the AS5 to "set-in"? or does it make little difference? thank u for all those who helped out.
 

woshitudou

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What is your room temperature at? Are you in a hot country?

It sounds like your room is hot. Do you have air conditioning available for the room?

I used to face my case to an open window to drop the CPU temp to 23c when it overheated.

(remember, blowing a fan in your room doesn't cool the air off unless its bringing in cold air from somewhere)
 

memento_mori

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i live in england and its bloody freezing these days! lol. i do have the central heating on i think my room temp is between 25-30. the system temp is 32-35 though...