Proof of low IQ in new dets?

speeduk

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Well I must say that I'm shocked at what I've just seen. I know its been talked about since the HL2 benches, but I've just seen proof that the new det 51.75's LOWER quality. Not just a bit, but you can actually tell the textures are more blurred compared to the current 45's...

<A HREF="http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/aquamark3/index3.htm" target="_new"> Check flash at bottom of page!!! </A>

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6988331" target="_new"> 3D-2001 </A>
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<font color=red> 120% overclocker </font color=red> (cheapskate)
 

Balderdash

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I just came from another forum looking at this extensively.

Watch the flash video again.

The 4403 and the 4523 look the same. The 3.4 and 3.7 cats look the same. the 5175 looks the worst and the darkest.

HOWEVER! Look again, at something else. Watch the "caution stripes" (black and yellow strips on the left wing tip) as the flash video plays. The 4403 and 4523 looks BETTER than the 3.4 or 3.7 shots. The cats are blurrier than the nvidia shots?!?!

from best to worst...
4403, 4523 (tie)
3.4, 3.7 (tie for second place)
5175, worst.
 

speeduk

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Thats a good point, but my point is that the new drivers sacrifice too much IQ. I just looked again and the 51's look checkered instead of single lines where you stated, the 3.4 and 3.7's look better, but not quite as sharp as the earlier drivers from nvidea. But as we have seen already, theres just not the performance in these drivers where needed, and in order to make gound back, they have made the FX rendering look awful...

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Balderdash

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I totally agree...

The 5175 looks horrible, and unless it's a driver setup error, I won't use it until it's fixed. I already talked to Veridian3 at driverheaven about it and I believe he's checking the driver settings of all the card drivers now, because the 3.4 and 3.7's don't look sharp and he hadn't noticed that before and he seemed surprised by it, just like me.

I agree with your post though, I'm supporting your statement, the 5175 looks not only the worst, it looks the worst by far.
 

Cassius105

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Balderdash

while i cant see a difference between the cat 3.7 and det 45s ill take your word for it since generaly i aint that good at spotting IQ differences :)

though

with that in mind

take a look at these from the www.3dgpu.com test

Radeon 9800pro
http://www.3dgpu.com/previews/images/iqr9800pro_iq.png

GF det 45s
http://www.3dgpu.com/previews/images/iq5600u_4533.png

GF det 50s
http://www.3dgpu.com/previews/images/iq5600u_5175.png

in my opinion the 9800 wins in those screenshots


which is interesting if GF 45s are better in 1 shot and cat 3.7 is better in another

though as you said

the important issue here in in all shots the det 50s are awful

this definatly answers why gabe newell was so adamant about not using the drivers
 

eden

Champion
Actually not just the warning stripes, but the top hood that has a small dark line becomes quite blurred and less visible on the 9800PRO than on the 44.33s.

The ship is the only thing blurred in my eyes though, the rest of the image is pretty much exactly like the Detonators save for the 51.75, which coincidently offer less color and brightness.

"sigh"... I don't like this.

--
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jurians

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i bet people at nvidia are like oh [-peep-] people noticed already.. and change it to something in between the iq of 45 and 51 either way i will not buy a nvidia card for years to come till they become honest, and dunno bout the rest of the nvidia users like me, but im boycotting these drivers or anything else till i see some change.
 

spud

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Heres the better question will you notice when the games/bench is running. Takeing stils to me is kinda redundant since all it proves is that still image that you only see for 1/40th of a second doesnt look good. But for people to bash the FX contest I have to agree looks worse.

-Jeremy

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eden

Champion
I often notice at normal gameplay with no high-res textures, the lack of image quality on my Ti200. When it gets blurry, it's noticeable. Even the R9800 seems to have some of that on the ground in those images.

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Well then why not just run everything at 640x480 on your 21" monitor, since IQ means very little at 1/40th of a second intervals? That way the FX5900 can perform just as fast as the R9800 running @ 1024X768+.

IQ makes a big difference if you have the monitor and care (like I do as my vision is still intact [although a little blurry at the moment, but that's another thing entirely]).

Why does it matter? Because at the lower quality the R9800 pulls in more frames yet again. What's the point in having a DX9 card (and paying for one) if it gets trounced by a GF4ti with the same IQ? Or better yet by an R9600P (at less than half the price) with BETTER IQ?


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil:
 

davepermen

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from these images it looks like det50 is less than the required dx9 and opengl1.4 ARB_fp minimum (wich is logical as they are below the minimum EVERYTIME they use 16bit floats internally).

so with det50, no gfFX is dx9 standard anymore. compatible, yes, but standard, no. same for opengl.

bad move, nvidia, bad move.

"take a look around" - limp bizkit

www.google.com
 

spud

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Your not going to notice it while in motion like that unless your moveing slowly. I dont play slow games like that so this doesnt directly effect me. I play hard and fast my brain doesnt even have a chance to say hey Jeremy look at that last frame it was blurry wtf dude.

IQ is moot to me since I didnt even buy the card for IQ it was for DX8.0 and DX8.1 stuff. DX9.0 wasnt on the list well actually it was i wanting to see what the fuss was about for 3dmark03's nature test. Which didnt really impress me, the turtle was kinda cool though!

Just find it hard to grasp why people dwell on IQ when they buy these cards for moveing images not stills.

-Jeremy

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spud

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LoL maybe your right maybe its soo damned good looking you have to walk everywhere and move very slow... If not all the eye candy goes to shat. Remember there isnt such thing as too much eye candy...

-Jeremy

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Well considering some of us like the way things look (rendered skies and that to ADD to the immersing experience) it's nice when rendering that sky doesn't adversly affect a slow down in the view of the dude we are trying to kill off in the distance. And in games like Morrwind there's alot of Eye-candy you can add, including TrueForm that makes the experience AWESOME, but doesn't have to cripple your play. That's what DX9 and advancements are about. Allowing people to have realistic scenery, models, hair, etc. while not costing them the Frames they need to get the rest of the task done. Just look at those screenies of UT2K4, it's looks like the terrain will be fabulous, and yes you will notice it even while moving relatively quickly, but the point is that Jump-Fragging isn't the ONLY aspect of games like that, it's just one part of it, and I don't want to have to change settings all the time simply 'cause the card can't handle it in this situation.

In the end it's about if company A can do it without a performance penalty then why can't company B?

I'm sorry I still want more. I want it to run LIKE the matrix, where you can really pretend you are in a fanatsy world fighting Cliff Racers, or Fragging someone, or Flying a Plane, etc. I remember the Early Flight SIM and even at 4000X3000 that game will still look like crap against FS 2004 at 640x480. It's all about getting the most you can get out of a game, not settling for what someone else thinks is 'good enough' for me. Sounds very 'communist' to me (not that I'm against the thorey of communism, just it's application [not that you care]).

Anywhoo, I know I'll notice the differences, especially since depending on which direction or what's there in a game you will see FPS all over the map. If AA/AF can come at very little cost then why not add them? You may need it.

PS: Ever heard of Sniping? Now that's aided by IQ in an otherwise FPS intensive game. Especially if you are watching something approach (at speed) into your cross-hairs, and need to anticipate when it will get there. Ahhh satisfying 1000+yds with a Barrett 50! :cool: I can give you a perfect example. The mission in Hitman2 with the Sheik being Escorted by the UN. Moving Car, small window, don't kill the UN escorts. Do it quick and sweet, and escape. I wish I had the R9600P when I first played THAT game.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 09/14/03 09:39 AM.</EM></FONT></P>