[SOLVED] psu 12v1 12v2 diffrence
- Thread starter REDIOX
- Start date
Solution
I love when people talk down to me when they don't know what I do for a living and think they actually know what they're talking about. 
Time for a little fun.....
Technically, they convert from AC to DC to DC to DC.... But when someone says a PC PSU has "DC to DC", they're talking about using DC to DC for the non-primary rails regulation off the +12V. This is as opposed to what's called "group regulation' using mag amps.
If you knew anything about the market, you would see that many of the PSUs that have DC to DC for the +3.3V and +5V rail tend to "K.I.S.S." and simply say the PSU...
Time for a little fun.....
Technically, they convert from AC to DC to DC to DC.... But when someone says a PC PSU has "DC to DC", they're talking about using DC to DC for the non-primary rails regulation off the +12V. This is as opposed to what's called "group regulation' using mag amps.
If you knew anything about the market, you would see that many of the PSUs that have DC to DC for the +3.3V and +5V rail tend to "K.I.S.S." and simply say the PSU...
Unolocogringo
Illustrious
- Dec 31, 2007
- 7,765
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- 38,390
Your power supply has more than 0ne 12v rail or output.
Each has a max of 21 amp or252 watts each.
This may or may not mean you have 504 watts of 12v available.
What EXACTLY is your power supply?
make, model and wattage.
We do not know until you post the above if it is good enough to power a RX580.
Each has a max of 21 amp or252 watts each.
This may or may not mean you have 504 watts of 12v available.
What EXACTLY is your power supply?
make, model and wattage.
We do not know until you post the above if it is good enough to power a RX580.
jonnyguru
Splendid
- Nov 30, 2006
- 4,451
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Those are your two +12V rails.
Explanation of which is here: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/sho...tiple-12V-rails-The-splitting-of-the-12V-rail
As @Unolocogringo asked: What PSU this is will help vastly.
Explanation of which is here: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/sho...tiple-12V-rails-The-splitting-of-the-12V-rail
As @Unolocogringo asked: What PSU this is will help vastly.
Unolocogringo
Illustrious
- Dec 31, 2007
- 7,765
- 657
- 38,390
jonnyguru
Splendid
- Nov 30, 2006
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Never heard of that brand.
But based on this: https://www.amazon.es/iggual-Fuente-Aliment-PSI09490-80Plus/dp/B01ANEIG1M
It's garbage.
Supposedly 42A on the +12V. Which is
The whole PSU is a scam. There's no "Iggual" listed on 80 PLUS anywhere.... and the PSU is 230V only, which means it can't be "Bronze", as the logo on the label implies. It would have to be the "Bronze 230V EU" which is a different logo altogether. Someone needs to file a class action lawsuit or inform retailers like Amazon that they're selling fake products.
Get rid of it before it explodes and kills all your other components or starts a fire. Get a PSU that's worth of a PC that's running a discrete graphics card.
jonnyguru
Splendid
- Nov 30, 2006
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Just as bad.
230V input only and once again claiming to be "80 PLUS BRONZE" yet it's not listed on the 80 PLUS website (while other NOX PSUs are).
Do they not sell good power supplies wherever you're located or are you just not willing to spend a little more money?
im willing to spend 100 usd for a psu
that's what i found "Gigabyte GP PB500 80 Plus Bronze 500W " and " MPX-6001-ACABW cooler master" "hummer x500watt 80plus bronze" "Aerocool Lux RGB 550W 80 Bronze""Nox Urano VX 80 Plus Bonze 650W" what should i get
"
- Nov 19, 2010
- 20,875
- 5,106
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Most of these arent' very good either. Nox/Urano sells a lot of low-quality junk in Spain/Portugal, so I assume that's where you are. What store are you looking at?
jonnyguru
Splendid
- Nov 30, 2006
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Of that limited selection, the Gigabyte is BY FAR the least offensive. The others I wouldn't even place three feet from my PC.
ElectrO_90
Splendid
- Apr 17, 2007
- 5,111
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DC to DC? I beg your pardon?
Would you like to explain exactly what you mean by that? PSUs convert AC into DC, the last time I checked!
The lad is probably from Spain, or at least from Europe, and they mostly use ~230V @ 50Hz over there. So pointing at the lack of ~115V input is rather... Pointless, mate.
It's a bit like complaining about your petrol car not able to use diesel!
That's mostly incorrect. For a few reasons:
- Most modern boards (Even the cheap ones) come with "voltage surge protection" so they basically shut everything off when voltages get out of control!
- Even cheap PSUs have fuses. So when a catastrophe happens; the only thing that gets fried (Usually) is the PSU itself, not the other components and/or the whole bloody house! I mean, don't houses have circuit breakers now? It's no longer the 1920s...
- While it certainly not a good idea to run a 340W Vega 64 on a cheap 500W PSU, the same can be said about cheap PSUs from "known brands" (Cough... Corsair CX... Cough). For smaller GPUs (~120W), a cheap PSU from an unknown brand is almost as good as a cheap PSU from a known brand, at least in my experience!
- If the voltages are good on the three rails (Within 5% tolerance) and the PSU doesn't get alarmingly hot to the touch after staying under load (Gaming) for hours, then you're good! Trust me, you are! Heat is the enemy. If it's running cool, then it's most likely fine. More than fine, in fact.
Funny how the young generation totally dismiss 300W and/or cheap PSUs nowadays...
Sad!
ElectrO_90
Splendid
- Apr 17, 2007
- 5,111
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While you have some valid points, not all of them are.
For instance, in 1920 they did have fuses. Also a fuse won't protect you when voltages go awry or when the frequency gets disrupted.
Dell are not known for making "cheap" psu's. So your PS at the end is useless.
I was merely a metaphor, mate! You were not supposed to take it literally!
I've seen my share of PSUs, mate.
Granted, my Dell's PSU quality isn't poor, but it's not great either.
- Nov 19, 2010
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This is kind of an embarrassing post. JonnyGuru is one of the people who practically invented the power supply teardown on the internet. He parlayed his expertise into a gig at Corsair where he currently oversees the engineering teams that develop power supplies; he's forgotten more about this area than you and I combined have ever known.
Be that as it may, let's go one-by-one, at least the parts of this rant that one should even dignify with a response.
- To start off, if you don't know what a DC-DC converter means, you're startlingly ignorant about how power supplies actually work. This is referring to how the voltage rails are generated, the DC power doesn't come conveniently packaged in magic little +12V/+5V/+3.3V baskets. To actually reach near the stated output, in terms of a modern PSU, the rails have to be generated individually. Group-regulated PSUs struggle to get near their stated theoretical outputs.
- Nobody think that Spain uses ~120V. It's just that power supplies that are designed to only do 220V are almost entirely low-quality PSUs. A mystery PSU that's 220V is a big, giant red flag. It's like seeing a car built in 2019 with bench seats; bench seats don't affect the car's performance, but it's a sign you're looking at something cheap and/or old.
- Modern boards do not cope with voltages to the degree that they somehow neutralize junk PSUs. You go on a whole tangent here that makes little sense.
- Dec 22, 2014
- 32,721
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You do realize that guy, is this guy:
https://www.jonnyguru.com/
He is literally probably the #1 authority in the world, on PSUs.
I didn't realize I was quoting an expert / celebrity when I made that post!
Anyhow, I'm by no means a PSU expert (Not even close, by the look of things!) but I do happen to be aware of the function a DC to DC converter serves in a PSU.
I just don't think a PC could function by solely relying on the 12v rail. In my admittedly limited knowledge regarding power supplies, ALL PSUs, no matter how cheap, come with DC - DC converters and provide +12V/+5V/+3.3V rails.
But like I said, I'm by no means an expert! And I seek your forgiveness in case I'm wrong.
Good Day!
Last edited:
- Apr 29, 2006
- 29,241
- 437
- 93,590
Nope. DC-DC is currently the best way to get there, but there are other cheaper ways to do it. If it has that voltage select switch in the back like PSUs of old then you can bet it's not using modern tech and is garbage.
If it's 230V only and claims to be 80+ that's a red flag as well. 80+ says you have to have a wide input range. They did come up with an 80+ that only does 230V, the name escapes me.
Darkbreeze
Retired Mod
- Jun 24, 2014
- 80,411
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Or in all probability, will EVER know. And that pretty much includes most of the rest of us as well.
While he and I haven't always seen eye to eye on some things, his knowledge of power supplies wasn't ever, nor will it ever be, one of them. There is probably very few others, maybe three or four, in the world, with as much experience and understanding of the internal workings of power supplies in general AND specifically, than he has.
Looking silly is a gross understatement.
Darkbreeze
Retired Mod
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Not even remotely true. All power supplies, at least if we are talking strictly about those used for PCs, convert AC power to DC, but prior to five years ago and even to this day on a lot of units, the number of them with DC-DC conversion rather than group regulation was severely limited. You should do some reading in that area before saying anything more on that subject.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?15049-DC-DC
By the way, Jon Gerow, yeah, that's JonnyGuru as well.
jonnyguru
Splendid
- Nov 30, 2006
- 4,451
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I love when people talk down to me when they don't know what I do for a living and think they actually know what they're talking about.
Time for a little fun.....
Technically, they convert from AC to DC to DC to DC.... But when someone says a PC PSU has "DC to DC", they're talking about using DC to DC for the non-primary rails regulation off the +12V. This is as opposed to what's called "group regulation' using mag amps.
If you knew anything about the market, you would see that many of the PSUs that have DC to DC for the +3.3V and +5V rail tend to "K.I.S.S." and simply say the PSU has "DC to DC".
It can be used as a gauge of the PSU's quality. To keep costs down, they can use undersized front end components in regions where only high line voltages are used. While the PSU could still be a quality unit, it's very unlikely since the savings tend to be less than a quarter. So one has to think, "if they're willing to save a quarter to not support low line mains, where else did they cut corners."
The other reason I bring up the point is because it's points out the dishonesty of the brand selling the PSU. Check out 80 PLUS. What line voltage to they test at when they award the "BRONZE" logo they're using on that box? 115V. But this PSU doesn't operate at 115V. So you know it wasn't tested for Bronze efficiency. If they're lying about that, what else are they lying about? I deal with these Chinese companies daily. You know what else they lie about? EVERYTHING!!!!
Yes, there is a "230V EU" version of Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc., but because higher lines means lower current and therefore less resistance and supposedly better efficiency, they increase the efficiency requirements for 230V mains. Now, if one of these "questionable" PSUs actually "earned" a 230V EU Bronze efficiency rating, why wouldn't they just put THAT on the box? Oh yeah.. that's right.... because they're LYING. If they actually DID pass the testing at the 80 PLUS labs, the report would be on the 80 PLUS website!!
I've also witnessed issues in regions where the mains power is poor. If there's a brown out where mains drop below 190V, the PSU will likely shut off. A PSU capable of supporting a full range of input voltages will function even if the mains drops to 90V.
1. Yes. Asus boards (that's about the only one I know of) has the Asus Anti-Surge protection and 90% of the time it gives false readings. It detects drops in voltages caused by transient spikes in load and 90% of the time it's a false reading and should be disabled in the BIOS. It does not detect out of spec ripple.
2. The fuse is on the input side. It blows when input quality is bad or if transformer saturation causes an overload of the primary side. Now.. PSUs DO HAVE an IC called a "supervisor IC" or "houskeeping IC" and some better ones have an actual MCU (Corsair AX1600i and the Thermaltake iRGB to name a couple). But how these are implemented, programmed, how the measurement points are measured, etc. can vary. I have actually been shot down by vendors to make tighter tolerance OPP because the mag amps required would be "too expensive" (cough.. Seasonic.. cough...) Some protections will be left off altogether to save cost! (Google: "Why not to buy a Seasonic S12II). So even PLANNED protections can be a moot point.
3. Actually, a Corsair CX series has an LLC resonant mode topology and DC to DC for the +3.3V and +5V rails. None of the PSUs the OP listed use an LLC topology (they're all double forward) and none of them use DC to DC. But since you don't know what I meant by DC to DC, I doubt you know the difference between the different switching topologies LLC vs. DF, half bridge, full bridge, bridgeless, totem pole, etc. so why am I bothering.
4. What are you talking about? Heat generated by the PSU is the result of AC power not converted to DC power. Voltages can be all off the map.... but hey! As long as it doesn't run hot, you're good. THAT is essentially what you're saying. Re-read what you posted. THAT is what you're saying. That only if voltages are out of spec does the PSU generate excessive heat.
Actually, Dell has never made a PC with a "cheap PSU". They tend to be from tier one vendors like Delta, Chicony, Lite-On, etc. They're willing to not sacrifice quality and save money in other areas like "no black paint" or "no sleeved cables" or "no extra connectors", etc. They also engineer them so the output power is only just barely more than what the PC it was made for needs.... since more power costs more money. That's why they tend to be 280W, 320W, 420W, etc. But the quality of the actual output power is always quite good. The Dell engineers know that if a PSU fails, it not only means a return of the entire PC (or an onsite if it's still within a year of the warranty), but that the failed PSU could also damage other components. The PSUs are also very robust as far as being able to survive a drop test, etc. The transformers, coils and bulk caps in a PSU are larger than anything on the motherboard save the air cooler on the CPU, so extra engineering goes towards making sure the PSU can be used as a flail and still function.
LOL! That made my day.
BTW: I'm 48 yo and I've been working the PC PSU industry since 2005. I started a website that specializes in reviewing power supplies almost 20 years ago.
EDIT P.S.: I read your humble responses after I posted. We're cool. I'm just having a little fun riffing on you. ;-)
"Young generation"....LOL! GOD, I wish!!!!
Time for a little fun.....
Technically, they convert from AC to DC to DC to DC.... But when someone says a PC PSU has "DC to DC", they're talking about using DC to DC for the non-primary rails regulation off the +12V. This is as opposed to what's called "group regulation' using mag amps.
If you knew anything about the market, you would see that many of the PSUs that have DC to DC for the +3.3V and +5V rail tend to "K.I.S.S." and simply say the PSU has "DC to DC".
It can be used as a gauge of the PSU's quality. To keep costs down, they can use undersized front end components in regions where only high line voltages are used. While the PSU could still be a quality unit, it's very unlikely since the savings tend to be less than a quarter. So one has to think, "if they're willing to save a quarter to not support low line mains, where else did they cut corners."
The other reason I bring up the point is because it's points out the dishonesty of the brand selling the PSU. Check out 80 PLUS. What line voltage to they test at when they award the "BRONZE" logo they're using on that box? 115V. But this PSU doesn't operate at 115V. So you know it wasn't tested for Bronze efficiency. If they're lying about that, what else are they lying about? I deal with these Chinese companies daily. You know what else they lie about? EVERYTHING!!!!
Yes, there is a "230V EU" version of Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc., but because higher lines means lower current and therefore less resistance and supposedly better efficiency, they increase the efficiency requirements for 230V mains. Now, if one of these "questionable" PSUs actually "earned" a 230V EU Bronze efficiency rating, why wouldn't they just put THAT on the box? Oh yeah.. that's right.... because they're LYING. If they actually DID pass the testing at the 80 PLUS labs, the report would be on the 80 PLUS website!!
I've also witnessed issues in regions where the mains power is poor. If there's a brown out where mains drop below 190V, the PSU will likely shut off. A PSU capable of supporting a full range of input voltages will function even if the mains drops to 90V.
1. Yes. Asus boards (that's about the only one I know of) has the Asus Anti-Surge protection and 90% of the time it gives false readings. It detects drops in voltages caused by transient spikes in load and 90% of the time it's a false reading and should be disabled in the BIOS. It does not detect out of spec ripple.
2. The fuse is on the input side. It blows when input quality is bad or if transformer saturation causes an overload of the primary side. Now.. PSUs DO HAVE an IC called a "supervisor IC" or "houskeeping IC" and some better ones have an actual MCU (Corsair AX1600i and the Thermaltake iRGB to name a couple). But how these are implemented, programmed, how the measurement points are measured, etc. can vary. I have actually been shot down by vendors to make tighter tolerance OPP because the mag amps required would be "too expensive" (cough.. Seasonic.. cough...) Some protections will be left off altogether to save cost! (Google: "Why not to buy a Seasonic S12II). So even PLANNED protections can be a moot point.
3. Actually, a Corsair CX series has an LLC resonant mode topology and DC to DC for the +3.3V and +5V rails. None of the PSUs the OP listed use an LLC topology (they're all double forward) and none of them use DC to DC. But since you don't know what I meant by DC to DC, I doubt you know the difference between the different switching topologies LLC vs. DF, half bridge, full bridge, bridgeless, totem pole, etc. so why am I bothering.
4. What are you talking about? Heat generated by the PSU is the result of AC power not converted to DC power. Voltages can be all off the map.... but hey! As long as it doesn't run hot, you're good. THAT is essentially what you're saying. Re-read what you posted. THAT is what you're saying. That only if voltages are out of spec does the PSU generate excessive heat.
Actually, Dell has never made a PC with a "cheap PSU". They tend to be from tier one vendors like Delta, Chicony, Lite-On, etc. They're willing to not sacrifice quality and save money in other areas like "no black paint" or "no sleeved cables" or "no extra connectors", etc. They also engineer them so the output power is only just barely more than what the PC it was made for needs.... since more power costs more money. That's why they tend to be 280W, 320W, 420W, etc. But the quality of the actual output power is always quite good. The Dell engineers know that if a PSU fails, it not only means a return of the entire PC (or an onsite if it's still within a year of the warranty), but that the failed PSU could also damage other components. The PSUs are also very robust as far as being able to survive a drop test, etc. The transformers, coils and bulk caps in a PSU are larger than anything on the motherboard save the air cooler on the CPU, so extra engineering goes towards making sure the PSU can be used as a flail and still function.
LOL! That made my day.
BTW: I'm 48 yo and I've been working the PC PSU industry since 2005. I started a website that specializes in reviewing power supplies almost 20 years ago.
EDIT P.S.: I read your humble responses after I posted. We're cool. I'm just having a little fun riffing on you. ;-)
"Young generation"....LOL! GOD, I wish!!!!
Last edited:
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