PSU problem? Or need UPS? USB shorting out computer

[bmcelvan]

Brand new build, i7-6700k on a sabertooth z170 board. Initially had an Ultra X4 modular 750W power supply. I didn't seem to notice any problems when inserting USB cables, but I'm not sure I actually did other than a flash disk (usb powered) for win install.

Upon trying to overclock the RAM and CPU, read about how a good PSU is critical and after reading how bad the Ultra power supplies are switched to a new FSP Group HydroG 750W PSU.

Then I noticed frequently when inserting usb cables the computer would immediately reboot (it seemed to short out but I'm not sure technically if that it was happened, I didn't see any sparks or anything like that). After a few more occurences I'm pretty sure it only happens with self powered (wall powered) external HDDs.

Then, by accident, I noticed it happen with the external HDD before I had the usb cable connected to the computer. In other words, the second I plugged the power cord into the wall, the computer restarted. So my thinking is I need a UPS? Is that good thinking, can anyone think of any other conclusions?

It didn't happen with the Ultra, not even once and I'm wondering if that is because it had no electrical safety features whereas the HydroG has all of them. Is there a way to test if they are malfunctioning or if I really need a UPS?

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Awesome, I'll be anticipating the results.

 

[bmcelvan]

Awesome, I'll be anticipating the results.

Just got this response from FSP, can you explain to me exactly what info he is asking me to give him?

I got the 750W PSU just in case I get a GPU sometime in the future, upon reading forums here thought it was okay to get slightly bigger PSU than necessary...is that not the case with this PSU?

thx

Hello Ben ,

Base on your info you only use 275W, so could you please let me know how many loadings (current A) at all rails (+3.3V, +5V, +12V1, +12V2...)

May be your systems can't meet the min loading for every rail.

Could you please provide your phone # for me .

Best regards,

John Chen

 

[turkey3_scratch]

That sounds like a bunch of bogus. Those people just read responses off a list and tell it to you and live in foreign nations and barely understand English most of the time. What he said has nothing to do with this. There is nothing wrong with getting an overkill power supply, it does no harm, if anything only good by increasing longevity and having tighter voltage regulation and ripple suppression.

 

[bmcelvan]

That sounds like a bunch of bogus. Those people just read responses off a list and tell it to you and live in foreign nations and barely understand English most of the time. What he said has nothing to do with this. There is nothing wrong with getting an overkill power supply, it does no harm, if anything only good by increasing longevity and having tighter voltage regulation and ripple suppression.

Okay so just hooked up my APC BACK-UPS 1080VA UPS and turned on my computer. I have three external HDDs attached and powered on as well. All wall powered and usb 3.0 (blue ones) connected to computer. A 5TB Seagate (whatever it is called), a 1.5TB Toshiba and a 4TB WD MyBook. All working fine and I can move files, files, etc.

I UNPLUG the 4GB usb cable (from the back I/O mobo panel) and the computer reboots immediately?????? So, shucks, UPS didn't seem to do it. There is one setting I'll change and test, the "sensitivity" It comes at 88-139Vac medium "default" and the note says The Back-UPS frequently switches to battery power. I'll change it to high sensitivity 88-136Vac "The connected equipment is sensitive to voltage flucuations" but I doubt this will have an effect, we'll see.

I wanted the UPS anyway so it's not like I'm gonna return it, just wish I had an answer.

However, something I did notice that is potentially different than what I mentioned before. I may have been grossly over estimating my power usage. Once booted up and just idle, the PSU says I use anywhere from 68-75W.

I opened vidcoder and started encoding and I got up to 170W but it settles down to around 150W. Do I really just not use enough power? Could that really be it? As long as I don't plug anything in or out it works fine so I guess I'll just remember that for the time being.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

There is no such thing as having "too little power" or "too much power" because power is not a substance, it is not a stuff. Power does not physically exist, electric charge exists, and a power supply is just a charge pump. It uses voltage to move the charge as current. The speed of the charge, along with the wire thickness, can increase the current and henceforth increase a mathematically calculated power that only exists as interpreted energy.

The only solution now is your PSU is faulty. For some reason it is not handling the transient load well when a USB device is hooked into your computer or unhooked, something wrong with the 5VSB rail I think.

 

[bmcelvan]

There is no such thing as having "too little power" or "too much power" because power is not a substance, it is not a stuff. Power does not physically exist, electric charge exists, and a power supply is just a charge pump. It uses voltage to move the charge as current. The speed of the charge, along with the wire thickness, can increase the current and henceforth increase a mathematically calculated power that only exists as interpreted energy.

The only solution now is your PSU is faulty. For some reason it is not handling the transient load well when a USB device is hooked into your computer or unhooked, something wrong with the 5VSB rail I think.

Thanks for the info. Just to 100% rule out it isn't a mobo problem, I am going to switch over to the Ultra PSU tonight (well actually I'm going to have to if I RMA this PSU anyway). I haven't been able to reproduce the issue of rebooting when another electrical device is plugged into a wall outlet but I know 100% it happened at least three times (all mentioned above somewhere, external hdd plugged into wall but not connected to computer and a baby swing simply plugged in to wall (at least twice).

Obviously the USB plug in (and unplug) is 100% reproducible when I want to.

Since I am doing an RMA, does it make sense to simply get a replacement or should I try to switch to another PSU if possible?

Thanks again

Ben

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I think a replacement is fine, it's normal for units to have faults every once in a while.

 

[bmcelvan]

I think a replacement is fine, it's normal for units to have faults every once in a while.

Okay, so hopefully this is the end of this conversation (not that I mind having it, I rather enjoy troubleshooting as long as there is a good solution).

Either I am a dumbass or just unlucky. I'm leaning towards unlucky for several reasons, one of which at least is quite obvious!

Before removing and shipping the PSU back (to FSP Group, Not NewEgg because it was part of a rebate program and therefore no UPC which is a whole different annoying conversation) I wanted to one last time verify when and how the problem occurs.

1 With current setup, all three external HDDs attached and powered on, turn on computer and load into windows. Once loaded and idle, I unplug one of the USB cables and instantly the computer restarts - PROBLEM.

2 So I power down the computer and unplug all the power cables. Remove side panels of the case. In an effort to potentially diagnose individual parts, I remove the FSP 24pin cable from the mobo (two piece, 20pin + 4pin). I then attach the Ultra 24pin cable to the Ultra PSU and to the mobo (also 20pin + 4pin). I leave all other cables as is (attached to the FSP PSU)

3 Power everything back on and nothing boots. There is a red light that blinks on the mobo right next to the CPU power cable. Obviously the FSP PSU doesn't like this setup, my guess is with no load on the 24pin output it shuts everything off as a safety feature???. I dunno but it doesn't work.

4 Remove FSP CPU 8 pin cable from mobo (2x4pin, I have no idea why 2x4pin this day in age with modern CPUs but whatever). Attach Ultra 8pin CPU cable (8pin) to Ultra PSU and then to the mobo and leave all other cables as is.

5 Turn everything on, boots up but no Windows. HDDs and SSD have no power so obviously same safety feature as above, no load on FSP so it shuts everything off. The PSU Fan does spin though.

6 Remove the two peripheral cables from FSP PSU and plug directly into Ultra PSU (same connector type and really didn't want to unplug all 7 or 10 plugs on these and switch to Ultra cable.) Everything powered from Ultra PSU now.

7 Turn on Ultra PSU and boot up and loads into Windows fine. Now the crictical part. I proceed to unplug and plug in all three external HDDs at least three times on each on every combination of usb ports I can think of. NO PROBLEM! Must be a PSU fault. Well it's late, like 12:30am and I need to get to bed and don't want to go thru the whole hassle of removing PSU tonight as I still need to troubleshoot with FSP Group tech support since I cannot RMA with NewEgg and since shipping is now on me I want to make damn sure they aren't going to say something is my fault. So I'll keep the FSP PSU in the computer until I get the green light from FSP tech support to remove it and shit* it back. They are currently closed so didn't pick up phone when I called. Will have to do tomorrow.

It's late and I want to go to bed. I quickly move the peripherals back to the FSP PSU. The CPU cable is such a pain in the ass because it is way in the corner and completely covered by my huge air cooler. The connector on the PSU end is the same so I just switch it over to the FSP PSU. The 24pin cable is the same on the Mobo end but on the PSU end the FSP is something like an 8 pin and a 16 pin where the Ultra is 24 pin on the PSU end. So I have to switch this cable back to the FSP cable.

Turn back on and boot into Windows. I didn't do extensive testing, but I couldn't get problem to happen I gave it about two miuntes of trying and will try again tonight, but

SERIOIUSLY!!!

Either I am a dumbass and forgot to make sure the CPU cable was properly seated on the mobo (which I didn't, it was fully in there)

Or I am a dumbass and somehow got the orientation wrong on the CPU pins in the mobo and/or jammed them in there (which I didn't)

OR I GOT UNLUCKY, and somehow the FSP CPU cable is faulty, has a short, a kink in it somewhere, doesn't have the connectors soldered or crimped properly. I don't know what but the FSP PSU with the Ultra CPU cable works fine, with the FSP cable has a problem.

Is it possible that only one of the 4pin ends is working on the mobo side? The cable is 8pin PSU side and 2x4pin on the mobo side. Correct me where I am wrong but those are two identical 4pin 12V ends right. If only one of them was transferring power, could that be the problem? It would still be 12V but possibly less AMPs?

*I noticed this typo and was gonna correct it but since it made me laugh out loud and everything I've gone thru with this I decided to keep it, it's fitting

 

[turkey3_scratch]

That just went over my head 😛 but we'll see if it's good.

 

[bmcelvan]

That just went over my head 😛 but we'll see if it's good.

What went over your head? Any relevant information...seeing you had to parse it out of the 14,000 word essay, lol!

FSP PSU with all FSP cables = PROBLEM
Ultra PSU with all Ultra Cables = GOOD
FSP PSU with all FSP cables EXCEPT with Ultra CPU cable = GOOD (I think)

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I don't see what a CPU cable would have to do with the USB ports... I don't know, the whole thing is strange.