Pulse of the tangle

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Pulse of the Tangle
{1}{G}{G}
Sorcery
Put a 3/3 green Beast creature token into play. Then if an opponent controls
more creatures than you, return Pulse of the Tangle to its owner's hand.


If the pulse is countered upon casting by an opponent who has more creatures
in play than the caster, does the pulse go to the graveyard or back to the
hand (with no creature being left behind due to the counter).

FWIW, we think it goes to the graveyard as the counterspell stopped any of
the spell coming into effect, including the return to hand bit. Are we
right?

TIA,

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Tim <XXshade@tusc.com.au> wrote:

> Pulse of the Tangle
> {1}{G}{G}
> Sorcery
> Put a 3/3 green Beast creature token into play. Then if an opponent controls
> more creatures than you, return Pulse of the Tangle to its owner's hand.
>
>
> If the pulse is countered upon casting by an opponent who has more creatures
> in play than the caster, does the pulse go to the graveyard or back to the
> hand (with no creature being left behind due to the counter).

If Pulse of the Temple is countered, it goes to the graveyard. You have
described nothing that might create an exception to rule 414.

414. Countering Spells and Abilities

414.1. To counter a spell is to move the spell from the stack to its
owner's graveyard. Countering an ability removes it from the stack.
Spells and abilities that are countered don't resolve and none of their
effects occur.

414.2. The player who played the countered spell or ability doesn't get
a "refund" of any costs that were paid.

> FWIW, we think it goes to the graveyard as the counterspell stopped any of
> the spell coming into effect, including the return to hand bit. Are we
> right?

Yes. Countered is countered.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Tim, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> Pulse of the Tangle
> {1}{G}{G}
> Sorcery
> Put a 3/3 green Beast creature token into play. Then if an opponent controls
> more creatures than you, return Pulse of the Tangle to its owner's hand.
>
>
> If the pulse is countered upon casting by an opponent who has more creatures
> in play than the caster, does the pulse go to the graveyard or back to the
> hand (with no creature being left behind due to the counter).
>
> FWIW, we think it goes to the graveyard as the counterspell stopped any of
> the spell coming into effect, including the return to hand bit. Are we
> right?

Yes, you are. If a spell is countered, no part of its effect occurs,
and therefore the Pulses go to the graveyard, not their controlers'
hands, regardless of whether their conditions are satisfied.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:01:51 +1000, Tim <XXshade@tusc.com.au> wrote:
>Pulse of the Tangle 1GG Sorcery
>Put a 3/3 green Beast creature token into play. Then if an opponent controls
>more creatures than you, return Pulse of the Tangle to its owner's hand.

Before reading any further: like the FAQ says, and the card says, count
the number of creatures AFTER putting your Beast token creature into play.

>If the pulse is countered upon casting by an opponent who has more creatures
>in play than the caster, does the pulse go to the graveyard or back to the
>hand (with no creature being left behind due to the counter).

Countered spells can't ever 'go back to hand'. If the spell is countered, it
goes to the graveyard before it can resolve, with no effect. (There is no
way existent to 'counter upon casting'; all existing methods of countering
take place -after- the spell has been cast (announced, played) and before
it can actually resolve.)

>FWIW, we think it goes to the graveyard as the counterspell stopped any of
>the spell coming into effect, including the return to hand bit. Are we right?

Yes. There's no way you can "partly counter" a spell - it either gets
countered, or it resolves.

If some BUT NOT ALL of its targets are illegal, assuming it has more than one,
then it can't affect the illegal target(s) in any way - but it still resolves.

(If _all_ of its targets are illegal as it tries to resolve, this counters
the spell, period.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, David!
You wrote on 5 May 2004 03:28:38 -0400:

DD> Countered spells can't ever 'go back to hand'. If the spell is
DD> countered, it
DD> goes to the graveyard before it can resolve, with no effect.
Except for flashbacked spells, I suppose...
Just a small nitpick.

Regards,
Arkady.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> Hello, David!
> You wrote on 5 May 2004 03:28:38 -0400:
>
> DD> Countered spells can't ever 'go back to hand'. If the spell is
> DD> countered, it
> DD> goes to the graveyard before it can resolve, with no effect.
> Except for flashbacked spells, I suppose...
> Just a small nitpick.

I see nothing about Flashback that makes any part of what Dave said not
true. They still go to the graveyard if countered. They're not useless
once they're there, but neither is any other card in the sense that
there are lots of ways to retrieve things from the graveyard - flashback
is just one of them.

Or did you mean if you pay flashback and that spell gets countered?
Still no exception to what Dave said, there's just an additional
replacement effect at work, so they don't actually end up in the
graveyard.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>DD> Countered spells can't ever 'go back to hand'. If the spell is
>DD> countered, it
>DD> goes to the graveyard before it can resolve, with no effect.

>Except for flashbacked spells, I suppose...

Sure, or spells with Yawgmoth's Agenda/Will affecting them, or Assert
Authority-ed spells, or ones that otherwise have some replacement effect
affecting them telling them to go somewhere else. But given nothing extra
added, in general the countered spell goes to the graveyard and has no
effect.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
>Arkady Zilberberg, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
>> DD> Countered spells can't ever 'go back to hand'. If the spell is
>> DD> countered, it
>> DD> goes to the graveyard before it can resolve, with no effect.

>> Except for flashbacked spells, I suppose...
>> Just a small nitpick.
>
>I see nothing about Flashback that makes any part of what Dave said not
>true. They still go to the graveyard if countered. They're not useless
>once they're there, but neither is any other card in the sense that
>there are lots of ways to retrieve things from the graveyard - flashback
>is just one of them.

He's talking about a spell cast -through- Flashback; spells so cast get, from
the Flashback rules, "if you do, remove this card from the game instead of
putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack", so if countered
don't end up in the graveyard at all.

>Or did you mean if you pay flashback and that spell gets countered?

Yep.

>Still no exception to what Dave said, there's just an additional
>replacement effect at work, so they don't actually end up in the
>graveyard.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.